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how do resists work?

First post
Author
CETA Elitist
The Prometheus Society
#1 - 2014-05-02 23:34:13 UTC
I don't get it. So if my ship has weak kinetic resistance does that mean I equip EM hardeners to make up for it? And why do shield and armor resists always oppose each other? Its needlessly complex.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#2 - 2014-05-02 23:35:37 UTC

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Cyoban
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2014-05-02 23:36:42 UTC
CETA Elitist wrote:
I don't get it. So if my ship has weak kinetic resistance does that mean I equip EM hardeners to make up for it? And why do shield and armor resists always oppose each other? Its needlessly complex.


Yes.
CETA Elitist
The Prometheus Society
#4 - 2014-05-02 23:36:43 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:

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FuryBot™ 0.86

No u
Noriko Mai
#5 - 2014-05-02 23:37:14 UTC
Yeah. Make it just "Defense: 6542", "Health: 64869" and "Attack: 515"

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein

Erufen Rito
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-05-02 23:38:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Erufen Rito
CETA Elitist wrote:
I don't get it. So if my ship has weak kinetic resistance does that mean I equip EM hardeners to make up for it?


relevant

CETA Elitist wrote:
And why do shield and armor resists always oppose each other? Its needlessly complex.


No it isn't. I can understand how math can be hard, but just sit there and I'll tell you.

Shield and armor resists oppose each other, because they are diffferent types of tank. Shield is tank based on energy, and it's the most suceptible to EM impacts, them being energy based.

Armor is well....armor, and it's most suceptible to explosive damage, because physics.

Resists only apply when you are being hit by that speccific damage type. If you get hit by 1000 points of thermal damage, and your thermal resist is 50%, you will only lose 500 points of HP

If you get 2 damage types, say, 1000 thermic, 1000 kinetic, and your thermal and kinetic resists are 50%, you get hit by 1000 damage.

If you get hit by 1000 on EM, and your resist is 0% on EM, you get hit by 1000 points of damage.

Hard is math yo!

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165

ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#7 - 2014-05-02 23:39:35 UTC
Thread has been moved to Ships & Modules.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.

Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-05-02 23:42:03 UTC
I always wondered how explosive was its own resistance as I am under the inpression that the forces involved in explosions are typically thermal (heat, fireball) and kinetic (shrapnel, shockwave).

It works well from a gameplay standpoint though
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#9 - 2014-05-02 23:45:14 UTC
Each type of HP is more vulnerable to one type of damage than another. Shields are typically vulnerable to EM damage, while armor is typically vulnerable to explosive damage.

When a resist reads 40%, that means that, when you take damage of that type, you subtract 40% of it. So, if you were to take 1000 EM damage but you have 40% EM resistance, you instead only take 600 EM damage.

Shield and armor resists are polarized in opposite ways to add meaning to damage type selection on the part of the attacker, and to enable "smart" decision making. For example, if you're fighting a Maller, you know it is almost always armor-tanked, so the vast majority of HP you have to chew through will be weak to explosive or kinetic damage. If you have the option to, you can switch to one of those damage types to try to make the fight swing your way. If you tried to use EM damage (like if you shot it with lasers), you'd have a much harder time. The case is flipped against a Moa, which is a heavy shield tanker and has very little armor. You want to be doing EM damage and avoiding explosive damage in that case.

Also, heads up: T2 ships mix up damage resistance profiles, making stuff even more interesting.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.

Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#10 - 2014-05-02 23:47:41 UTC
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
I always wondered how explosive was its own resistance as I am under the inpression that the forces involved in explosions are typically thermal (heat, fireball) and kinetic (shrapnel, shockwave).

It works well from a gameplay standpoint though


I'd have liked EM damage to be a an ECM thing... but it's all good I spose.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

CETA Elitist
The Prometheus Society
#11 - 2014-05-02 23:50:43 UTC  |  Edited by: CETA Elitist
Thanks for the help! :d
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#12 - 2014-05-02 23:52:07 UTC
CETA Elitist wrote:
I don't get it. So if my ship has weak kinetic resistance does that mean I equip EM hardeners to make up for it?

*groans*

No... you equip an Kinetic hardener. If your EM resistance is weak, equip an EM hardener.

If you want to increase all resistances, fit an Adaptive Plating (passive) or an Adaptive Invulnerability Field (active).

And no, you can never have "equal" resistance to everything. The game is rooted in tradeoffs. If you become strong in one thing, you become weak in another. If you try to apply equal strength to everything, you will be equally weak to everything.


CETA Elitist wrote:
And why do shield and armor resists always oppose each other? Its needlessly complex.

Focus on one tanking style at a time. As said above, if you try to be good at everything, you will be weak in everything.

If you fit an armor tank, focus your fit around the armor. Forget the shields.
If you fit a shield tank, ignore armor.


Lastly... ship fittings revolve around 4 things...

- Tank
- Damage
- Speed
- Utility and Electronic Warfare (see: cap boosters, ECM, ECCM, Afterburners, Microwarpdrives, Warp Disruptors, etc).

You can, at most, only fit 2.5 of these things at any given time. Balancing these things will be key to making a good ship fit.
CETA Elitist
The Prometheus Society
#13 - 2014-05-02 23:57:51 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
CETA Elitist wrote:
I don't get it. So if my ship has weak kinetic resistance does that mean I equip EM hardeners to make up for it?

*groans*

No... you equip an Kinetic hardener. If your EM resistance is weak, equip an EM hardener.

If you want to increase all resistances, fit an Adaptive Plating (passive) or an Adaptive Invulnerability Field (active).

And no, you can never have "equal" resistance to everything. The game is rooted in tradeoffs. If you become strong in one thing, you become weak in another. If you try to apply equal strength to everything, you will be equally weak to everything.


CETA Elitist wrote:
And why do shield and armor resists always oppose each other? Its needlessly complex.

Focus on one tanking style at a time. As said above, if you try to be good at everything, you will be weak in everything.

If you fit an armor tank, focus your fit around the armor. Forget the shields.
If you fit a shield tank, ignore armor.


Lastly... ship fittings revolve around 4 things...

- Tank
- Damage
- Speed
- Utility and Electronic Warfare (see: cap boosters, ECM, ECCM, Afterburners, Microwarpdrives, Warp Disruptors, etc).

You can, at most, only fit 2.5 of these things at any given time. Balancing these things will be key to making a good ship fit.

So this game is about tradeoffs but I should try to even out my resists? My head hurts.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-05-03 00:02:15 UTC
Not on both armor and shield, but even out resists of either Armor OR shield. That is a decent general rule.

For fighting rats, where you know their two damage types, just stack those two resistances, the exception being Angels I think (it's been years, sorry) and maybe sleepers?

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!

Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-05-03 00:02:20 UTC
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
I always wondered how explosive was its own resistance as I am under the inpression that the forces involved in explosions are typically thermal (heat, fireball) and kinetic (shrapnel, shockwave).

It works well from a gameplay standpoint though


My guess would be that they are making the distinction between the impact of an object designed to explode on impact, so a partial penetration, explosive shell, versus a shell or weapon that imparts all its force as kinetic energy originally imparted to the shell or projectile, which makes perfect sense in the case of railgun and blaster ammo.

Projectile ammo explodes on contact, and so is 'explosive'
Hybrid ammo is greatly accelerated with large amounts of energy on firing, to do damage through impact, so it's 'kinetic'
Just a matter of loosely working with terminology, I guess.

The real weird part to me, is fiery explosions in space.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-05-03 00:07:29 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
I always wondered how explosive was its own resistance as I am under the inpression that the forces involved in explosions are typically thermal (heat, fireball) and kinetic (shrapnel, shockwave).

It works well from a gameplay standpoint though


My guess would be that they are making the distinction between the impact of an object designed to explode on impact, so a partial penetration, explosive shell, versus a shell or weapon that imparts all its force as kinetic energy originally imparted to the shell or projectile, which makes perfect sense in the case of railgun and blaster ammo.

Projectile ammo explodes on contact, and so is 'explosive'
Hybrid ammo is greatly accelerated with large amounts of energy on firing, to do damage through impact, so it's 'kinetic'
Just a matter of loosely working with terminology, I guess.

The real weird part to me, is fiery explosions in space.


Mythbusters proved you could shoot a normal pistol in pure vacuum. It can happen!

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#17 - 2014-05-03 00:21:37 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
CETA Elitist wrote:
So this game is about tradeoffs but I should try to even out my resists? My head hurts.

In PvP... as much as possible in one type of tank without compromising the rest of the fit. But you will always have a resistance "hole" somewhere. There is no real getting around that.

Example:

[Tristan, PvP Brawler]
Damage Control II
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Adaptive Nano Plating II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

Light Ion Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S
[empty high slot]

Small Trimark Armor Pump I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I

Hobgoblin II x5


Armor Resistances:
EM: 57%
Thermal: 44%
Kinetic: 44%
Explosive: 46%

As you can see... I "plugged up" the Explosive "hole" with a rig (it would be 23% without it). However in doing so my Thermal and Kinetic resistances are lower than everything else.
Now if I tossed the Anti-Explosive rig in favor of another Trimark rig I would be able to resist more damage against EM, Thermal, and Kinetic damage... but then I would become extremely vulnerable to anyone who does Explosive damage.




In PvE... unless you are fighting Sleepers (in wormholes) or Incursion Sansha (found only in Incursion areas) you only need resistance against two damage types... which depends on the NPCs.

Examples:
Amarr, Blood Raiders, Sansha, Rogue Drones: Deal EM and Thermal Damage, are weak against EM and Thermal damage.
Gallente, Caldari, Guristas, Serpentis, Mordu's Legion, "generic mercs": Deal Thermal and Kinetic Damage, are weak against Thermal and Kinetic damage.
Minmatar, Angel Cartel: Deal Explosive and Kinetic Damage, are weak against Explosive and Kinetic Damage.
Sleepers: Deal omni-damage, are weak against nothing.
Incursion Sansha: Deal omni-damage, are weak against nothing.
CETA Elitist
The Prometheus Society
#18 - 2014-05-03 00:28:19 UTC
Wow.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-05-03 07:12:41 UTC
Hrett wrote:
Arronicus wrote:
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
I always wondered how explosive was its own resistance as I am under the inpression that the forces involved in explosions are typically thermal (heat, fireball) and kinetic (shrapnel, shockwave).

It works well from a gameplay standpoint though


My guess would be that they are making the distinction between the impact of an object designed to explode on impact, so a partial penetration, explosive shell, versus a shell or weapon that imparts all its force as kinetic energy originally imparted to the shell or projectile, which makes perfect sense in the case of railgun and blaster ammo.

Projectile ammo explodes on contact, and so is 'explosive'
Hybrid ammo is greatly accelerated with large amounts of energy on firing, to do damage through impact, so it's 'kinetic'
Just a matter of loosely working with terminology, I guess.

The real weird part to me, is fiery explosions in space.


Mythbusters proved you could shoot a normal pistol in pure vacuum. It can happen!


Explosions have the same requirement as fires:
Fuel (Gun powder or equivalent)
Oxygen (Gun powder contains it's own oxidizer)
Heat (Blasting cap)

As the casing is built to contain the explosion until a failure happens (bullet detaching from casing), guns will work in space.

If you thought otherwise, I suggest going back to grade school or stop doing the bible.
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
#20 - 2014-05-03 12:01:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Aralieus
Punching the officer in the face?

Edit: Ohhh, you mean spaceships. Google is your friend, also, that complexity you speak of is what makes eve unique. Or else we would all be running around slaying unicorns with dragon dongs or some ****

HTH Big smile

Oderint Dum Metuant

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