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Please explain steath patch to WH-space

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Tas Nok
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2011-12-02 08:12:06 UTC
Its not as if everything was perfect in WH space (assembling T3's pls) but we certainly didn't deserve what we've got:

--Sig ID's nearly the same AVV-KVV-WVV-PVV (one missed keystroke and I'm warping to the wrong sig) did I mention they ALL have the same suffix?
--POS fitting issues, this seems to be a problem all over Eve, but with POSes the ONLY way to live in a WH it hurts us more than most, hope you get a handle on this soon
--The black background for probing is nice... the inability to see my pinned sigs on that background is killing my eyes
--As several other threads have reported the spawns have changed in various Ladar and Grav sites, I still need to check the various anoms and radars and Mags to see if they have changed as well

Generally in Eve if things are broken we appreciate it when they get fixed (Tac overlay not working in map is now fixed, TY) these fixes don't require a dev blog to explain because they are rather obvious. Changes to things that players use generally do require explination, (see Super changes, hybrids, destroyer fixes... et al)

So can someone PLEASE explain the reasoning behind THIS:
EVE API
* The Jumps API no longer shows jumps into wormhole space.
in the Deployment thread many questions were asked and answered but not this one...
Greyscale came close... but I'm still waiting for an answer:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=38799&p=9 POST #179

This combined with the other changes is making continued life for my small corp in WH space rather alot harder than it used to be. I just don't understand... the one place where small-holding was actually possible in Eve just became a nightmare of uncertainty, day in and day out. We just don't have the numbers to be probing and scanning 23/7, at least with the jump intel we had an idea of how secure/unsecured our WH was... I'm not asking for a PVP-free zone (wouldn't live there if I could) but the ability to have a modicum of intel allowed us to face intruders (large and small) with some confidence, and avoid blobfests.

Jumps are shown everywhere else in eve including the furthest reaches of Null space, so why did WH space get special attention?

Before I forget one MASSIVE POSITIVE note... Luv Big smile the Corp bookmarks, really, really useful in WH space, I just wish "save location" was changed back to "create bookmark" but that's just a nit-pick thing.

Qual
Knights of a Once Square Table INC.
#2 - 2011-12-02 08:24:05 UTC
Tas Nok wrote:


This combined with the other changes is making continued life for my small corp in WH space rather alot harder than it used to be. I just don't understand... the one place where small-holding was actually possible in Eve just became a nightmare of uncertainty, day in and day out. We just don't have the numbers to be probing and scanning 23/7, at least with the jump intel we had an idea of how secure/unsecured our WH was... I'm not asking for a PVP-free zone (wouldn't live there if I could) but the ability to have a modicum of intel allowed us to face intruders (large and small) with some confidence, and avoid blobfests.

Jumps are shown everywhere else in eve including the furthest reaches of Null space, so why did WH space get special attention?


This is how WH space was designed. The export API (a later addition to the game) broke the design.

WH space is now working as designed.

I lived in WH space solo (that is one pleyer 3 alts) for about 6 months, back in the start, and staying current on your systems connections and the way home to normal space is part of the game. A fun part once you embrace it. And, come on, it takes ½ an hour tops for one person, usually much less. Witht he addition of corp bookmarks you are still way better off than back in the start.
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
#3 - 2011-12-02 08:42:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Tronic
Signature IDs are a bug, see the GM post in the Crucible Issues thread in the Issues & Workarounds forum.

Quote:

--POS fitting issues, this seems to be a problem all over Eve, but with POSes the ONLY way to live in a WH it hurts us more than most, hope you get a handle on this soon


Bug report it properly like you and everyone should be doing but aren't

Quote:
--As several other threads have reported the spawns have changed in various Ladar and Grav sites, I still need to check the various anoms and radars and Mags to see if they have changed as well

This was part of the site rebalance done for all of eve in the patch.
Sweet Trader
The Hollow Men
#4 - 2011-12-02 14:52:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Sweet Trader
Tas Nok wrote:
So can someone PLEASE explain the reasoning behind THIS:
EVE API
* The Jumps API no longer shows jumps into wormhole space.

This is precisely as it should be, not only in WH space but elsewhere. Static Mapper, like local, provides intel that the player has not worked for and should not possess. Where is the information coming from? Are there unseen drones wandering all WHs taking pictures of every jump and rat kill? or is there some interstellar edict requiring all pod pilots to report their activities? are we on an ASBO? have we all been electronically dog-tagged?

The next step should be for CCP to remove the log of rat kills. The only intel that should be publicly available is player ship and pod kills, presumably public knowledge released by the insurance companies.

As for this making it impossible for small corps to survive in WH space... HTFU. If anything it makes it safer. Interlopers from known space are less likely to trouble your system if they do not know what is going on there. As for those of us who live here... if you cannot assess threats in your own system without Static Mapper then maybe you should go back out to local-land.
Khamal Jolstien
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-12-02 15:51:13 UTC
Jack Tronic wrote:


Bug report it properly like you and everyone should be doing but aren't



Why in the world would ANY paying customer be told they "should" be bug reporting a game? Bug reports are a service provided to CCP by their paid QA employees, not their customers. That's like paying for a sandwhich and then being told to make it yourself.
Handsome Hussein
#6 - 2011-12-02 15:59:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Handsome Hussein
Khamal Jolstien wrote:
Why in the world would ANY paying customer be told they "should" be bug reporting a game?

My, aren't we an entitled little ****.

Do you want the problem solved quickly? Best thing to do is to report it through proper channels, not get all enraged on the internet and spew a bunch of garbage on a forum. A central reporting tool is crucial for developers and planners to rapidly set goals and fix them in a timely manner.

You're only helping yourself.

Leaves only the fresh scent of pine.
Whimmy Wham Whamwazzle
#7 - 2011-12-02 16:00:32 UTC
Apparently those similar sigs are a bug...
Sweet Trader
The Hollow Men
#8 - 2011-12-02 16:03:25 UTC
Handsome Hussein wrote:

My, aren't we an entitled little ****.


Nope... he's a paying customer with a perfectly reasonable view.
Mukutep
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-12-02 16:05:30 UTC
In some ways I think it makes you safer that jumps aren't reported any more. As someone who has a fun past-time of finding WH's, stalking the residents and ganking them, this has always been a VERY useful tool to me. I can easily tell if it's worth my time based on the jumps and sleepers killed.

So yes, you may have less info on whether your home is safe, but the predators have less info on where you are, too.
Handsome Hussein
#10 - 2011-12-02 16:08:08 UTC
Sweet Trader wrote:
Nope... he's a paying customer with a perfectly reasonable view.

Well, I suppose he should stop paying for EVE and walk away, since the QA so obviously sucks.

For the record, I certainly wouldn't want him as a customer. He's obviously too lazy to help himself.

Leaves only the fresh scent of pine.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#11 - 2011-12-02 16:12:25 UTC
Ugh... if you've seen me post at all you'll know I go off about things people propose that would nerf wormhole space. That being said...

I have to admit, even though the lack of jump intel was a bit of a surprise and can hurt in some degree... it's universal and makes sense in Anoikis space. Seriously, how are you keeping tracks of jumps through a transitory cosmic hiccup in the first place? Gates, sure, they're tied into a network. Wormholes...

Here's what I see... we're losing the free intel of seeing how active a system is and at what times of day it's active. This was really REALLY useful information for a variety of things, such as planning system assaults, etc. Now, if you want to do it you have to do it yourself. Get your cloaky into the system unseen, find a comfy place around the pos with DScan humming away softly in the background, put on a little Mozart and observe. As you see people, put them in your contacts list. Take notes. Watch. Wait.

Part of me hates that we're losing something we've had for so long, but instead of nerfing wormhole life it's adding an extra little bit of danger to things. In these times where everyone's screaming for areas of space to be safer and more nerfed it's actually a little refreshing. We do fine without the other empire crutches the weaker players need... local, dedicated entries and exits, cynos and jump bridges, etc. We'll do fine without this. Welcome to the frontier space of Eve. This is how it was meant to be.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Khamal Jolstien
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2011-12-02 16:13:16 UTC
Handsome Hussein wrote:
Sweet Trader wrote:
Nope... he's a paying customer with a perfectly reasonable view.

Well, I suppose he should stop paying for EVE and walk away, since the QA so obviously sucks.

For the record, I certainly wouldn't want him as a customer. He's obviously too lazy to help himself.

It's a good thing you aren't a businessman then, as you seem to have a gross misunderstanding of how to treat a customer :) You seem pretty spiteful today. You mad because the customer base isn't giving CCP free labor?
Tora Oni
Legendary Sidekicks in Space
#13 - 2011-12-02 16:40:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tora Oni
Life in the wh's is only for the big boys..... no local, no intel of jumps, no easy exits/routes, no blobs at gates, etc etc...... Those are only for people who need it, like nul- low- and carebears..... Lol
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2011-12-02 16:46:12 UTC
Khamal Jolstien wrote:
Jack Tronic wrote:


Bug report it properly like you and everyone should be doing but aren't



Why in the world would ANY paying customer be told they "should" be bug reporting a game? Bug reports are a service provided to CCP by their paid QA employees, not their customers. That's like paying for a sandwhich and then being told to make it yourself.


Yes, because QA catches every bug, every time, in every computer application ever - except Eve. Roll

Stop being an entitled twit.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2011-12-02 16:49:38 UTC
Khamal Jolstien wrote:
Handsome ******* wrote:
Sweet Trader wrote:
Nope... he's a paying customer with a perfectly reasonable view.

Well, I suppose he should stop paying for EVE and walk away, since the QA so obviously sucks.

For the record, I certainly wouldn't want him as a customer. He's obviously too lazy to help himself.

It's a good thing you aren't a businessman then, as you seem to have a gross misunderstanding of how to treat a customer :) You seem pretty spiteful today. You mad because the customer base isn't giving CCP free labor?


How you treat your customers has zero to do with providing them a method to accurately and quickly report problems with your product. In fact, having a dedicated, easy to access method of reporting issues puts CCP over and above many of the software vendors I deal with in my day job. And they don't even charge you $125 per support incident.(Microsoft, I am looking at you).

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#16 - 2011-12-02 16:53:42 UTC
Khamal Jolstien wrote:
Handsome ******* wrote:
Sweet Trader wrote:
Nope... he's a paying customer with a perfectly reasonable view.

Well, I suppose he should stop paying for EVE and walk away, since the QA so obviously sucks.

For the record, I certainly wouldn't want him as a customer. He's obviously too lazy to help himself.

It's a good thing you aren't a businessman then, as you seem to have a gross misunderstanding of how to treat a customer :) You seem pretty spiteful today. You mad because the customer base isn't giving CCP free labor?


Yeah, I'm right there with you. My phone stopped working about a month ago and they haven't fixed it yet.

I'd report it so they know there is a problem and get if fixed, but I'm not getting paid to do that, so screw em.

Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#17 - 2011-12-02 16:57:37 UTC
Then please CCP be consequent and:


  • Remove intel of NPCs killed in WH Systems

  • Remove intel of Ships destroyes in WH Systems

  • Remove intel of Pods killed in WH Systems


I'd actually like to see local put in delayed mode for all other systems, free intel? Work for it!

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.
Tora Oni
Legendary Sidekicks in Space
#18 - 2011-12-02 16:58:03 UTC
CCP should pay us isks for every new bug reported. We are paying customers, not unpayed bughunters.....P Why would i have to fill in a form. Be lucky I am reporting it at all.....
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#19 - 2011-12-02 17:15:05 UTC
Seleia O'Sinnor wrote:
Then please CCP be consequent and:


  • Remove intel of NPCs killed in WH Systems

  • Remove intel of Ships destroyes in WH Systems

  • Remove intel of Pods killed in WH Systems


I'd actually like to see local put in delayed mode for all other systems, free intel? Work for it!


The killboards. There are things they need to know.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Dietrich III
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#20 - 2011-12-02 17:17:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Dietrich III
Tas Nok wrote:
This combined with the other changes is making continued life for my small corp in WH space rather alot harder than it used to be. I just don't understand... the one place where small-holding was actually possible in Eve just became a nightmare of uncertainty, day in and day out. We just don't have the numbers to be probing and scanning 23/7, at least with the jump intel we had an idea of how secure/unsecured our WH was... I'm not asking for a PVP-free zone (wouldn't live there if I could) but the ability to have a modicum of intel allowed us to face intruders (large and small) with some confidence, and avoid blobfests.

Jumps are shown everywhere else in eve including the furthest reaches of Null space, so why did WH space get special attention?


WH space is supposed to be riddled with uncertainty. Since the mechanics haven't really changed since Apocrypha, most WH dwellers have gotten complacent and forgotten what the true nature of wspace is: ADAPT OR DIE.
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