Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Well as the missiles are now a useable choice too, with the missile swapping now something that is worthwhile use of management time and concentration, particularly as Rapids have a real time cost to swapping, I would be happier to have a superdrone class available that could be useful against all rat classes, in order to prevent a greater management need from turning into micromanagement.
But anything really that allows the drone weapons system as a whole to function against all classes of rat would be suitable.

The Gila is not in a bad place, as the superdrone mediums, can still have some effect against elite and spider drones, not ideal, but hopefully acceptable. That would be a good fit for the Rattlesnake too.

If with the 50m3 bandwidth, one kept CCP rises sentry and heavy choices, for those that did not want to change, while offering the Gila bonused Superdrones,- with them applying the same DPS as the rattlesnake currently achieves (allowing for not applying damage while travelling)- that would achieve all the goals that were quoted and requested, and allow a very nice choice of roles satisfying all the stated wishes of the players.

Ps I do hope CCP rise drops into this thread, so he can discuss this with the CSM while they are all together.

we can discuss specific fits ad infinitum.
We can also discuss the rattlesnakes amazing passive tank and how one will lose that with missile rigs.
We can also discuss using more medium slots for painters and omnidirectionals too and losing drone control range with the DDA loss due to new launcher.


All very interesting, but Missing the point of things.

Described in the thread in great depth in the thread so please keep that in mind.
But as a summation.
The new changes to the drone weapons system, consists of removing the current drone weapons system that fields lights, mediums, sentries, and heavy drones. Which are all bonused. And effective against all rat classes.
With a new system that removes all bonuses and then substitutes with two heavy or sentries, that have their levels brought up to the same damage and durability as a current flight.

Thereby losing their ability to engage smaller rat classes to anything like the same capability as currently exists.

The thread is polarised into "please restore the capability to engage rats of all rat classes by whatever means."
And.
" you don't need drones anyway, accept the Loss of capability, missile users are much better off so you should be grateful!"

Is that a fair summation?

Now who's baiting?

No, in all seriousness, I don't really think that's a fair summation. I have noticed at least three separate camps, and you're thoroughly disparaging the second camp you are lining out.

Sorry it is not meant as a disparagement , it is an attempt to respond to the denial that the drone weapons system is worse off than before.
I am not disputing that there are fits to change how things are dealt with, but overall, they do not cure the problems created, they just move the problem.

I am asking for truly effective superdrones that restore their capabilities, while doing things in a different way. My rabbit post a few pages back shows my thinking in a role playing sense.

I believe with a good superdrone weapons system, effective against all rat classes, will make an excellent PvE and PvP brawler.

Currently it is a mishmash of interesting ideas that are not tied together.

Very very little is needed to get this ship worthwhile.

I won't repeat what, it must be clear by now, but what is good about the Gila can be good for the rattlesnake


Edit:- the Rabbit post was a long way back, so here is the link to make things easier Rp rattlesnake letter from Rabbit

(But i have no objection to sentries or heavies and ewar being used as well.)

I have read the entire thread.
I understand that the light and medium drones aren't as good as before.
I also know that unbonused lights kill the frigs you worry so much about fine (my mission runner alt has used drake, raven and navy raven to run every lvl 4 in the game).
Unbonused lights with 3 DDA will murder those elite frigs and spider drones just fine.
I can't use T2 cruise but i suspect precision missiles with application rigs will also do fine against smaller ships (as my meta 4 launchers with t1 missiles and no application rigs do just fine)
My current setup is a navy raven with 2 DDA and i never have to fire missiles at frigs.
I always wanted to upgrade to a missile /drone pirate BS but the current RS sucks vs either the navy raven or the T1 domi.
The new RS will be my new mission boat without a doubt. Missile dps almost as good as a navy raven + drones almost as good as a domi + a tank better than both, What is not to love.
The cost for this is loss of missile range (not an issue for cruise users and torp users on this ship were wrong anyway).
Also the loss of damage /HP to light and medium drones which is required as explained earlier as a RS with bonused rapid lights and bonused light drones would be extremely OP vs frig/cruiser gangs and even unbonused will still be able to take on and kill many T2 frigs at a time.
We are going to see a lot of threads crying for a nerf to RS from PVP frig /cruiser pilots as they hopelessly peck at its massive tank whilst being slaughtered.

Finally i suspect many people struggling to think how to fit this new RS are having issues because they are wedded to the passive tank fits. Passive tank fits always gimp a fit and are useful in only a few niche places. Passive tank fits just use too many slots to be optimal in almost any case bar that of heavy neuting. With only light to moderate neuting (ie PVE) a cap booster and active tank or just an active tank and kill the neuts asap is far better.
There are some nasty guristas combat sig escalations in null that apply heavy neuting to my tengu. i have no cap booster and run an active tank with no cap mods at all. I can run them fine.

The people who say the new Rattlesnake still isn't good enough and/or is too expensive for PvP have a point.

The people who say the new Rattlesnake is worse than the old one are ********. The new Rattlesnake with rapid lights fitted does more raw DPS than the old one with cruise. If you really really need to kill frigates, fit rapid lights. You'll still do more DPS with it to everything else than you did with the old one.

Now, I'm not claiming that a rapid light fit is a good fit. But it clearly handles frigates better than the old one and still puts out more DPS than the old one against any other target. The fit you actually end up choosing to use over the rapid light fit is then obviously even better than the hypothetical fit fit that is already clearly better than the old RS at everything. There it absolutely no reason to prefer the old version, it's just utter stupidity.

This.

Coming from someone who "took" a forum break due to alt-posting.

no, you guys really do sound that silly and that is exactly what you are saying.

The Rattlesnakes role was versatility and resistance to e-war, now being destroyed with these changes.

oh, look, Kaarous Aldurald is back on his alt trying to support his moronic perspective with suck puppets again.

It must suck to be so obviously pathetic.

The Snake's role was supertanky shield Domi with inferior drone tracking. There is a reason that the old Snake was going for 400 million, besides their supply being so large.

I trust the market's opinion on this... When these changes were announced, the price went up 200 million, at which point the CFC sold a lot of their stock of snakes. Even after that flood, prices are still up 100 million. It would seem to me that indicates that people believe the new Rattler will be more useful than the old.