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K-space wormholes
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HTC NecoSino
Suddenly Carebears
Verlate
#21 - 2014-05-01 18:43:05 UTC  |  Edited by: HTC NecoSino
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:

People do not have short cuts in real life without effort involved.

People do not get any gain for no work.


Lol, move to New York


Oh, and still, take this idea, roll it into a ball and kick it through the nearest wormhole. Ty.
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-05-01 18:47:32 UTC
My problem with the change to how they are displayed is that when there is a wormhole in system, it would be immediately identifiable as a k-space to k-space hole, meaning you wouldn't have to scan it down and to me that detracts from the concept of wormholes as mysterious things to look for.

As far as increasing their total mass and mass regen, I have no problem with that. If there happens to be a wormhole that goes somewhere useful, sweet, let's use it. But most of the time, they would go somewhere random and not particularly helpful.

Overall I think it's fine the way it is.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
1c3crysta1
Silent Majority.
Aspartame.
#23 - 2014-05-01 18:53:16 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Enough people use them, people who want to have fun without other people knowing where they come from or where you go to. These hidden passages are priceless for roams into far away territories, where you can come and go undetected. These WHs being anoms would make this easier to do, but also a whole lot less secret. And I certainly don't mind tedious tasks.

And they are wormholes regardless of their different nature, as you called it.


Even if they were anoms, it's not like you can find it without entering the system. But you tend to be on the move while roaming, so the odds of enemy finding your entry is far from a certainty unless they know your entry system (and if they do, you can't avoid them camping it anyway). And for not minding tedious tasks, isn't it best when the rewards for them were less of a long-shot like a random wormhole is?

Just like there are combat anoms and combat sigs. Isn't that also an inconsistency?
1c3crysta1
Silent Majority.
Aspartame.
#24 - 2014-05-01 18:58:05 UTC
Tengu Grib wrote:
My problem with the change to how they are displayed is that when there is a wormhole in system, it would be immediately identifiable as a k-space to k-space hole, meaning you wouldn't have to scan it down and to me that detracts from the concept of wormholes as mysterious things to look for.

As far as increasing their total mass and mass regen, I have no problem with that. If there happens to be a wormhole that goes somewhere useful, sweet, let's use it. But most of the time, they would go somewhere random and not particularly helpful.

Overall I think it's fine the way it is.


It's not that mysterious, more like a different kind of gate. A useable tool for bring another flavor to Eve. Atleast they could be. Now there're too niched to find a broader audience.
1c3crysta1
Silent Majority.
Aspartame.
#25 - 2014-05-01 18:59:17 UTC
HTC NecoSino wrote:
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:

People do not have short cuts in real life without effort involved.

People do not get any gain for no work.


Lol, move to New York


Oh, and still, take this idea, roll it into a ball and kick it through the nearest wormhole. Ty.


You and your constructive thoughts...why don't you share it with us?
Alundil
Rolled Out
#26 - 2014-05-01 22:59:34 UTC
1c3crysta1 wrote:
Alundil wrote:
I don't care for this idea. The removal of things that require pilot action (scanning; signatures, ships, etc) and skill (efficiency) for things that do not require any of the aforementioned (anomalies; free effortless content, free effortless Intel, less attention to detail and game mechanics) is a very bad trend.

It should be discouraged whenever suggested by CCP or by player. You should feel discouraged.


I can understand if you don't agree with the idea if you want Eve to be a more tedious place. I agree that there are some things that should require pilot actions, such as scanning, but this is not one them.

Lol at misrepresenting my point. Well done.

I'm right behind you
motie one
Secret Passage
#27 - 2014-05-02 00:20:26 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
I thought initially that it sounded like a nice idea and thought a bit deeper, Making HS>HS wormholes more accessible, Yes. Making it visible without scanning, after thinking on it as I said, I came to the conclusion that scanning it out would be better. I absolutely reject the idea that every nice thing means we have to have something nasty to suit some weird philosophy some call balance, but make it too easy and they become Gank traps.

A compromise arrangement would be to give HS>HS wormholes a different signature strength to help them stand out more when scanning. And increase the frequency of occurrence.

That's enough of a boost I think.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#28 - 2014-05-02 05:57:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
1c3crysta1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Enough people use them, people who want to have fun without other people knowing where they come from or where you go to. These hidden passages are priceless for roams into far away territories, where you can come and go undetected. These WHs being anoms would make this easier to do, but also a whole lot less secret. And I certainly don't mind tedious tasks.

And they are wormholes regardless of their different nature, as you called it.


And for not minding tedious tasks, isn't it best when the rewards for them were less of a long-shot like a random wormhole is?

Just like there are combat anoms and combat sigs. Isn't that also an inconsistency?


No and no.

True, that is also an inconsistency, but only for the sake of PVP. PVPers need to be able to easily find ratters in 00 sec and you can also not expect 00 ratters to scan systems before they can go make money. That would ruin the day for a lot of people, especially PVPers, who would complain that ratters can do their business in near perfect safety.
This argument (easy PVP and easy access), however, should in my opinion not apply to Wormholes of any kind. Your argument of people needing to be in the same system with the wormhole to get knowledge of it would only be valid if there were either less people in Low/00 sec or less busy station systems. But as neither nor is the case, it would be too easy to track you down. Also, in order to find out about the WH, they need to scan it first. That is a little bit of necessary extra effort to have some fun with intruders.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Jezza McWaffle
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#29 - 2014-05-02 06:09:22 UTC
Why not just ask for an increase of k-space to k-space wormholes then? Changing them to anomolies is a stupid idea. Plus its ridiculously easy to find a route from any area of k-space to any other area by just travelling 2-3 jumps and find a C1-C3 wormholes.

Wormholes worst badass | Checkout my Wormhole blog
1c3crysta1
Silent Majority.
Aspartame.
#30 - 2014-05-02 09:20:10 UTC
Alundil wrote:
1c3crysta1 wrote:
Alundil wrote:
I don't care for this idea. The removal of things that require pilot action (scanning; signatures, ships, etc) and skill (efficiency) for things that do not require any of the aforementioned (anomalies; free effortless content, free effortless Intel, less attention to detail and game mechanics) is a very bad trend.

It should be discouraged whenever suggested by CCP or by player. You should feel discouraged.


I can understand if you don't agree with the idea if you want Eve to be a more tedious place. I agree that there are some things that should require pilot actions, such as scanning, but this is not one them.

Lol at misrepresenting my point. Well done.


Well, I do agree with you that this shouldn't become what WoW is, but I still think it can be worth it to make things easily accessable. So I don't feel discouraged. If that's still off the mark, please tell what it is that you wanted to say.
1c3crysta1
Silent Majority.
Aspartame.
#31 - 2014-05-02 09:31:09 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
1c3crysta1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Enough people use them, people who want to have fun without other people knowing where they come from or where you go to. These hidden passages are priceless for roams into far away territories, where you can come and go undetected. These WHs being anoms would make this easier to do, but also a whole lot less secret. And I certainly don't mind tedious tasks.

And they are wormholes regardless of their different nature, as you called it.


And for not minding tedious tasks, isn't it best when the rewards for them were less of a long-shot like a random wormhole is?

Just like there are combat anoms and combat sigs. Isn't that also an inconsistency?


No and no.

True, that is also an inconsistency, but only for the sake of PVP. PVPers need to be able to easily find ratters in 00 sec and you can also not expect 00 ratters to scan systems before they can go make money. That would ruin the day for a lot of people, especially PVPers, who would complain that ratters can do their business in near perfect safety.
This argument (easy PVP and easy access), however, should in my opinion not apply to Wormholes of any kind. Your argument of people needing to be in the same system with the wormhole to get knowledge of it would only be valid of there were either less people in Low/00 sec or less busy station systems. But as neither nor is the case, it would be too easy to track you down. Also, in order to find out about the WH, they need to scan it first. That is a little bit of necessary extra effort to have some fun with intruders.


I admit that I haven't had much experience with hunting through wormholes in K-space, but I find it hard to believe that it's much easier to get a drop on someone through those than through a gate, except for the part of not being reported by the blues on the way in (but that is not something that this proposal would change). I mean, you still show up in local, you're probably not closer to the target and you still have to find him/her.
I haven't checked that much, but isn't there alot of K-space -> K-space WHs around? Would it really stand out that much for people looking for your entrance? And low/null sec is fairly desolate apart for a hot-pocket here and there.
1c3crysta1
Silent Majority.
Aspartame.
#32 - 2014-05-02 09:38:45 UTC
motie one wrote:
I thought initially that it sounded like a nice idea and thought a bit deeper, Making HS>HS wormholes more accessible, Yes. Making it visible without scanning, after thinking on it as I said, I came to the conclusion that scanning it out would be better. I absolutely reject the idea that every nice thing means we have to have something nasty to suit some weird philosophy some call balance, but make it too easy and they become Gank traps.

A compromise arrangement would be to give HS>HS wormholes a different signature strength to help them stand out more when scanning. And increase the frequency of occurrence.

That's enough of a boost I think.


That would be a good boost aswell, a less controversial one. If not an anomaly (which ppl doesn't seem to want), make it a signature that can be found with poor scanning skills on a non-bonused ship. But I'd want the change to go for all types of K-space -> K-space WHs, not just HS->HS.
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#33 - 2014-05-02 10:03:23 UTC
Original Post wrote:
wormhole hard mmkay?
Plz make them ez.



Wormholes are supposed to be subtle ways of moving about game. What you're proposing directly nerfs their ability to remain at least somewhat obscure(Despite that even the newest character can scan one down with relative ease).


There's an ancient saying in New Eden that has been passed down through the ages. It is composed of a four letter acronym, HTFU.

Schrodinger's Hot Dropper

The Fate of Forum Alts

Guaranteed Success
Ix Method
Doomheim
#34 - 2014-05-02 12:02:21 UTC
Jezza McWaffle wrote:
Changing them to anomolies is a stupid idea.

QFT.

Wouldn't be adverse to the mass increase, it doesn't have the same tactical significance as with other types of WH. If they stayed viable for long enough that someone could reasonably and regularly sell them it'd be a nice little buff to exploration.

Travelling at the speed of love.
HTC NecoSino
Suddenly Carebears
Verlate
#35 - 2014-05-02 12:21:26 UTC
1c3crysta1 wrote:
HTC NecoSino wrote:
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:

People do not have short cuts in real life without effort involved.

People do not get any gain for no work.


Lol, move to New York


Oh, and still, take this idea, roll it into a ball and kick it through the nearest wormhole. Ty.


You and your constructive thoughts...why don't you share it with us?



In NY the average private-sector job pays an estimated $13.50/hr
A person getting full welfare benefits (WIC, food stamps, rent assistance, medicare, etc) makes something like $22/hr.

Then people wonder why they don't work and just keep popping out kids.
Blodhgarm Dethahal
8 Sins of Man
Stray Dogs.
#36 - 2014-05-02 13:00:44 UTC
HTC NecoSino wrote:
1c3crysta1 wrote:
HTC NecoSino wrote:
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:

People do not have short cuts in real life without effort involved.

People do not get any gain for no work.


Lol, move to New York


Oh, and still, take this idea, roll it into a ball and kick it through the nearest wormhole. Ty.


You and your constructive thoughts...why don't you share it with us?



In NY the average private-sector job pays an estimated $13.50/hr
A person getting full welfare benefits (WIC, food stamps, rent assistance, medicare, etc) makes something like $22/hr.

Then people wonder why they don't work and just keep popping out kids.


That may be true but should it be like that?

I'm going to say... no...

Do people get benefits for no work? Yes it happens.
Should it happen? no... so take every measure possible to make sure than any benefit that is given requires work.
So keep K-Space Wormholes signatures in order to keep work in them because there is always a chance of a benefit.
leavemymomalone idiot
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-05-02 13:40:53 UTC
as far as i am aware there is already hisec wormholes to hisec exits i call them portals because there is no actual space, you jump from hisec to hisec. i have found them all over eve
they are not common but they do spawn
1c3crysta1
Silent Majority.
Aspartame.
#38 - 2014-05-02 15:32:10 UTC
I can see that ppl (atleast the ones that answers) rather not see this. I think that this is an area where the game is needlessly tedious, but if it isn't going to change, nvm. There are less controversial, albeit less powerful ways of changing them. Thanks for your input and cya around!
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