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Dev Blog: Industry Work Teams: Thoughts / Another 0.0 boost

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Dr Grant
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-05-01 12:44:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Dr Grant
Apparently we get "teams" as a system wide, auctionable modifier to a system that effects industry efficiency.

Thoughts:

* system popularity is influenced both by system modifier and slot costs, both are going to counter each other
* modifiers as presented so far are in the lower percentage bracket (1-5%), which is significant for many profit margins today
* given that resources are dictated by the market, and production efficiency through BPCs is most likely equalized, WHERE you produce is going to be the profit driver

Conclusions:

* currently industry is a spreadsheets game, somewhat static, but appropriate (IMHO) considering the production chain complexity
* future industry will revolve more around "active" chasing of best per system "modifiers"
* large and complex industry jobs with a lot of minerals where the modifier matter (and maybe with POS involvement) will be a PITA to relocate
* its is unclear how the modifiers can be "stabilized". There is no incentive for the single industrialist to buy system wide resources, it is most likely not profitable just for his production chain. Since it is a system wide benefit even loose organizations will struggle, because people can just leech of other investments.

I think on the whole it is still good that being "active" provides an incentive. It is particularly useful for small scale production because in that case relocation is easy providing an advantage for the "little guy". I have doubts how the cooperation in buying system wide resources outside the alliance level is supposed to work though. A similar system in faction warfare currently doesn't work particularly well. As it is currently presented it will become the "ultimatum game" of team auctions and will not be based on homo oeconomicus as it should be :-)


Edit: All significant bonuses will probably end up in 0.0. Alliances can auction on these teams on the alliance level, most likely highsec will not have the organisational structure/scale to compete, thus giving 0.0 another advantage in addition to the refining efficiency.
Tonai Kion
Physics Says No
Brotherhood of Spacers
#2 - 2014-05-01 15:22:29 UTC
I disagree. For a few things, those build teams will end up in Null because that's what people want down there, but the amount of industry that gets done in High-Sec will keep the majority of the teams up here. People (including all the null sec cartel alts) have huge numbers of resources in High sec that are dangerous to move to null. Add in the fact that Trit and Pyrite don't exist in meaningful amounts in Null, and large scale industry down there will be tricky.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#3 - 2014-05-01 15:45:52 UTC
Tonai Kion wrote:
I disagree. For a few things, those build teams will end up in Null because that's what people want down there, but the amount of industry that gets done in High-Sec will keep the majority of the teams up here. People (including all the null sec cartel alts) have huge numbers of resources in High sec that are dangerous to move to null. Add in the fact that Trit and Pyrite don't exist in meaningful amounts in Null, and large scale industry down there will be tricky.



^^this pretty much!
Dr Grant
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-05-01 16:11:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Dr Grant
Tonai Kion wrote:
I disagree. For a few things, those build teams will end up in Null because that's what people want down there, but the amount of industry that gets done in High-Sec will keep the majority of the teams up here. People (including all the null sec cartel alts) have huge numbers of resources in High sec that are dangerous to move to null. Add in the fact that Trit and Pyrite don't exist in meaningful amounts in Null, and large scale industry down there will be tricky.


Production in 0.0 will be restricted by what you can ship back to highsec, not by what you can ship to nullsec. Minerals will be fairly easy to ship down to 0.0 with compressed ore, including Trit and Pyerite. 0.0 industry, due to much higher refining efficiency, will end up with a lot of minerals in 0.0 that cannot be shipped back to highsec obviously. Much of it will go to capital production some of it will go to regular production. For that, it should not be very expensive or hard to grab the best teams for an alliance to place in their production system. Highsec producers might therefore have two disadvantages - refining efficiency and production efficiency, because in reality no one in highsec is going to outbid the 0.0 alliances on the crucial teams (for instance capital specialists and what have you).

What might mitigate this is the increased fuel costs as pointed out in another dev blog, but whether that plays a role depends on what exactly you would ship back to highsec.
Zifrian
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-05-01 17:59:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
Shipping to and from nullsec is pretty easy and if you pay attention, not very dangerous.

The only reason I don't ship mats from highsec to work in nullsec is due to jump fuel costs. I typically use wormholes to ship materials as they are free to use.

But basically, cost is the major factor in nullsec operations compared to highsec. New updates to existing infrastructure won't matter much with respect to the amount of industry production unless it reduces cost. If we can re-coup our lost profit from jump fuel by using the new tools given in this update, we'll use them and more production will take place in nullsec. If not, it won't.

Personally the only thing limiting me from large scale production in nullsec is the cost of shipping materials not easily obtainable in nullsec like advanced moon materials or moving finished product to markets that will move my products (empire hubs).

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

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Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-05-01 23:43:53 UTC
almost all production occurs in high sec. i can't see that changing.
Many systems have many stations.
industrialists in these systems can easily make multiple small bids that will make their system win teams.
Industrial corps where these can be co ordinated will now have a reason to exist.
others will then flock to that system.
certain items will suddenly be mass produced causing a local spike in supply.
costs in that system will spike.
regional traders will have new products.
new ways of market manipulation will be born.
some stuff beyond caps will be built in 0.0.
everything here is good and adds to the production/trade game both socially and game playwise.

I am actually quite tired of any change bringing on the "OMG null cartel" or "OMG my gamestyle will be borken".

These are opportunites people.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Rialen
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2014-05-02 01:11:03 UTC
Tonai Kion wrote:
I disagree. For a few things, those build teams will end up in Null because that's what people want down there, but the amount of industry that gets done in High-Sec will keep the majority of the teams up here. People (including all the null sec cartel alts) have huge numbers of resources in High sec that are dangerous to move to null. Add in the fact that Trit and Pyrite don't exist in meaningful amounts in Null, and large scale industry down there will be tricky.



There are lots of trit and pyerite in null. That is the one thing I have a lot off so I am unsure why you are saying that. The only thing I have trouble getting is mexallon which needs to be obtained from highsec.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-05-02 23:59:35 UTC
Arkonor will have mex with kronos
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2014-05-04 00:02:04 UTC
Rialen wrote:
Tonai Kion wrote:
I disagree. For a few things, those build teams will end up in Null because that's what people want down there, but the amount of industry that gets done in High-Sec will keep the majority of the teams up here. People (including all the null sec cartel alts) have huge numbers of resources in High sec that are dangerous to move to null. Add in the fact that Trit and Pyrite don't exist in meaningful amounts in Null, and large scale industry down there will be tricky.



There are lots of trit and pyerite in null. That is the one thing I have a lot off so I am unsure why you are saying that. The only thing I have trouble getting is mexallon which needs to be obtained from highsec.



People think there is no trit because everyone only wants to mine ABC, or whatever the spreadsheet god says is the best isk/m3 for the particular day. If my alliance is anything like the rest, it's because they don't want to actually use what you mine, they want to ship it to jita to sell, and then turn around and buy what they need. It's incredibly wasteful, but What Everyone Does.
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-05-04 00:23:57 UTC
Dorian Wylde wrote:
Rialen wrote:
Tonai Kion wrote:
I disagree. For a few things, those build teams will end up in Null because that's what people want down there, but the amount of industry that gets done in High-Sec will keep the majority of the teams up here. People (including all the null sec cartel alts) have huge numbers of resources in High sec that are dangerous to move to null. Add in the fact that Trit and Pyrite don't exist in meaningful amounts in Null, and large scale industry down there will be tricky.



There are lots of trit and pyerite in null. That is the one thing I have a lot off so I am unsure why you are saying that. The only thing I have trouble getting is mexallon which needs to be obtained from highsec.



People think there is no trit because everyone only wants to mine ABC, or whatever the spreadsheet god says is the best isk/m3 for the particular day. If my alliance is anything like the rest, it's because they don't want to actually use what you mine, they want to ship it to jita to sell, and then turn around and buy what they need. It's incredibly wasteful, but What Everyone Does.


Time and manpower wise, it is far better to mine ABC, export and sell, and then buy and import what you want. Currently we just can not source locally any meaningful amounts of low ends.

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Geezelbub
Barely Illegal
#11 - 2014-05-04 01:47:34 UTC
Well I was looking for an excuse to just become a stone cold killer in this game.

Turning my billions into ships, ammo and mods.

This is THE lamest reinvention of the wheel I have seen yet.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#12 - 2014-05-04 19:35:16 UTC
Please post your feedback regarding the industry changes in the relevant feedback thread.

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