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So highsec POS's are going away after the change... We can build cheaper in stations a few jumps from trade hubs AND now we will have to follow the teams to get the best manufacturing. Is there going to be any reason to have a highsec POS after these changes besides the whopping 5% reduction in manufacturing costs?

1) Follow the teams for at best a 7.5% reduction in manufacturing costs - if there's a team available with the bonus. You may not be able to access such a good team, and may have to settle for a smaller team bonus. On top of that you've got time/costs of moving manufacturing operations every 28 days.

2) Setup a POS for a 5% reduction in manufacturing costs. Add in fuel-costs etc. However you've got a more stable base of operations.

That's actually making it look a closer call than you're making out...

So a large null alliance can pick a particular region and post products at extremely low costs to drive the cost of industry down? What is to stop an alliance from creating a region like this and telling members not to buy there since the items are only there to bring the cost of industry down?

Am I reading the blog post wrong? Is all industry costs now tied to item cost in the region?

You are starting to see the unmanageable effect that this new system will bring to manufacturing. The rolling average can swing to a higher cost once spikes in the system get calculated for 30% of the total average. A really low value is more influenced by a high value than the opposite. High load swings in the system for manufacturing can (and I say is most likely) significantly change the 28 day rolling average in as little as 10 days.

I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers for a 1-2% swing in costs on a hypothetical example. However, if you feel confident in calculating my costs and profits from a rolling average that has intended daily adjustments and changing base manufacturing costs, then you are better than me at forecasting profits on a dynamic model using a hypothetical example.

You are not looking at all the factors. Anyone can now get as many slots as they need/have skills for at a station. The main reason for High-Sec POS's was to get slots. The one thing supposed to limit slots is the scaling of the slot price however CCP has said:

"The teams thus act as a counter-balance to the cost scaling – the presence of a good team can offset the increased cost in operating in an active system."

So using teams can remove a lot of the new scaling cost. My point is... Why would anyone want a POS where they have to buy/make fuel at 180 mill a month (medium POS), risk BPO originals in a POS for invention (you cant copy from a BPC), have to log in everyday to check for wardecs, haul ice and buy charters when it can ALL be done in a station for a lower cost.

You can say the 5% reduced manufacturing cost of a POS but you would have to manufacture over three trillion worth of product just to save 150 million in fuel cost. There are not many players out there producing those kinds of numbers from a single POS in one months time. The result of these changes will be a reduced number of POS's and migration of industry to other highsec systems away from the trade hubs. If I do my industry 12 jumps from Dodixie where I dont have many people using/scaling up the cost of slots, my total production costs will be much lower than what they would be with a POS AND with the copy time reduction, I will be able to produce at least three times more product now than I am able to today.

Anyone currently using a highsec POS better be scouting out some remote systems to move to and be ready to test pricing in those systems when the change comes or I will be crushing them in price with my new reduced costs. I also recommend anyone hoarding ice to sell that stuff before the changes as I see the need for ice to go down considerably a few months after the changes when most people realize that highsec POS's are now obsolete.

Edit: I forgot to mention there is also a new tax going into effect on POS jobs so they will no longer be free.

Why a medium POS for a bit of manufacturing? You were talking about chasing teams around the galaxy - is moving your entire base of operations every month more cost effective than the POS fuel cost?



Why do I have to do invention in my manufacturing POS?

In fact there seems to be a recurring theme about doing invention AND manufacturing in here - did I miss something about blueprints that you invent yourself being free?



So that's 10m ISK per frighter-load to take it to market. I can see a system 1-jump from Dodixie where there is no competition for station-slots. Which comes out at 2m ISK per freighter-load to take it to market (well a little more actually as I'd have to do it myself rather than offload it to red-frog.)

Then maybe I could get a low-value team into my system, and reap the benefits without allowing half of Eve to be able to jump on the band-wagon.

Oooh! Choices, choices, choices...

I think you and I are talking about different things. You seem to be focusing on following teams which was not really my point. I will not be following any teams and I doubt most indy players would as we have too much inventory to keep moving around but... smaller indy players could. Perhaps I used it incorrectly when making my point. My point is, looking at the new costs, it will be cheaper to build/invent and research in an NPC station than it would in any size POS given the information we currently have. Under the changes, most jobs will now cost around 5% of the item cost. This is not enough to justify the price of having a highsec POS.

Edit: One additional factor in the death of highsec POS's is that after the changes you can drop corp and become immune to wardecs in an NPC corp.

As far as highsec goes, in order to get that 2% bonus you will need to:

1. Drop 300 to 500 mill for a POS and modules
2. Log on every day to check for wardecs
3. Pay 90 million a month for fuel
4. Haul fuel each month
5. Risk BPO's in a POS if doing copying

I just dont see the current information providing enough reasons to continue using a POS in highsec when I can spend less by using a station and sit in an NPC corp and be about as safe as a person can be in the game

Just as an example, let us say a person is building Invulnerability Field II’s and they currently sell for 1.4 million isk each. If I build them in a (small) POS in highsec it will cost me 90 million a month. If I build them in an NPC station 8 to 10 jumps from Dodixie and the slot cost is 5% of item cost, it will cost me 70k per item to manufacture. I would have to make 1286 of them per month to break even. CCP has also mentioned some kind of tax coming to POS slots but has not clarified this yet.

I don’t know many indy players who are making over 1000 modules per month and this does not include the quality of life factors as hauling fuel and being subject to wardecs and having to close down your POS. Don’t forget, if you have a lab in your POS, people will be looking for you since there is a chance you are copying and your BPO is in there.

The changes are not yet written in stone but unless CCP starts to add some benefits to owning a POS in highsec besides the 2% reduction in build cost, many (not all) builders will make more profit by taking down the POS and building in stations.

2% material cost (from better ME)... AND... some unknown % cost scaling cost of being in station... IF you put your POS in a place where no one else is doing anything.