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How Real is EVE?
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Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2011-12-02 13:52:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
Karn Dulake wrote:
This game is real for no life sad sacks with nothing else. You can always spot them as they start threads on the most poinltess subjects.



And saying so makes you feel better? Am i right ...

Who is sad sack then ??
Caroll Yanaki
Doomheim
#22 - 2011-12-02 14:06:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Caroll Yanaki
I always like threads of this kind...

EVE, like any other game is as real as the person who plays it allows it to be.
It's not necessary to have RL issues, psychological problems or some social disadvantages in order to justify your "addiction" to a certain game. Some times people indeed "perceive" a certain game as an extension or a replacement of their RL out of some troubles they experience, but I don't think it's something common or valid for everyone, playing EVE or any other MMORPG.
As a person who works in a MMO games studio as a Community Manager I have always found it amusing when players state that other players or the gameplay had "ruined their lives". But having played this game for quite some time, experiencing horrible deaths and the amazing adrenaline rush you all guys know, I now have a better understanding about such irrational statements made by players.
All in all, the one principle for the gameplay experience for me is:
If a person, by some reason, accepts certain game as some kind of alternate reality, no matter what his motives are, means that the game is good enough to make him feel this way.
So, for me EVE is good enough to make me feel it "real" at some level.
As long as I never forget it's only a game, of course.

Edit: Please, excuse my English.
Mahakaharashi RedEagle
Doomheim
#23 - 2011-12-02 14:50:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Mahakaharashi RedEagle
As long as your ingame character cannot perma die, it's a game like any other game out there. Certainly somewhat harsher than average MMORPG yet wooly soft compared to some hard core sims. That's technically speaking. As for personal feeling of game universe... I guess that depends on someone's RL - or lack of it Blink
ariana ailith
Dukalin
#24 - 2011-12-02 14:57:28 UTC
There is no spoon?
Famble
Three's a Crowd
#25 - 2011-12-02 15:01:40 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
What makes EVE Online real for its players is that there are consequences to the game play. In other games, loss translates only to time. You lose a boss fight in a game like World of Warcraft, all that you've lost is the time it takes to make your way back to the encounter. You lose to a fellow player in EVE Online, you lose not only time and items, but pride and ego.

...

What makes EVE Online real for its players is the meta-game. In other games, the accomplishments of the players are insular; what you accomplish has no bearing or effect on anyone else. In EVE, what you accomplish has effect on the entire game world. In other games, the game itself exists only while the client is running. In EVE, the game exists well outside of the client. Accomplishments in EVE require planning, politics, subterfuge, which, by necessity, are mostly achieved away from the pixels of spaceships. People think EVE well after they've turned their monitors off.

No, in other games, loss doesn't*** translate only to time. I've been playing this game for almost a decade, and you'll be hard-pressed to find a bigger fan, but this needless trip to inflate its ego is unnecessary. You're doing EVE a disservice.

I've played WoW for quite a long time as well (recently stopped), and I can tell you as a matter of fact that WoW raiding guilds can pretty easily break apart on just a few extra wipes. Guilds that do well command the same respect that the upper-tier alliances in EVE do, and that's just server-wide. The top-ranked guilds that get world-first achievements are recognized by tens of millions worldwide. Your raid achievements, gear, and arena rating, are all a source of competition. The same pride and ego exist in WoW, as they do in EVE, and can just as easily be shattered.

About the only argument I agree with is the insularity of WoW achievements; your actions in-game don't affect the game world itself. However, the game definitely exists outside of the game client. Being the best means devoting time, thought, and discussion to strategy, for both pve and pvp. Some of the user-side calculations for things like optimizing dps put EVE math to shame.

Am I saying WoW is better than EVE? No, not at all. But I'm not saying it's worse either. They're two separate games, catering to, for the most part, different demographics. But, because they're both MMOs, they also share some similarities. One of them is the concept of a persistent game world that translates into a sense of "reality" beyond it. And if you don't want to take my word for it, go lose a loot roll to a Hunter. You'll quickly understand just how "real" things can get.

By the way, this whole argument isn't just limited to WoW. WoW is simply the game more people are familiar with, and serves as a good base for a comparison.


*** Or rather, loss translates to time in all games. No matter how you rationalize things, I can at most lose in EVE what I've gained from the first minute onwards (RMT meta-spending not included). I started with a Velator, and try as you might, you won't be able to decrease my holdings beyond that point.


Confirming that high level raiding with the best in WoW is as "real" as it gets in games. As real as anything in Eve to be sure. I was like you, a full time raider with a top (server) ranked guild. In addition to spending countless hours researching encounters, calculating DPS by manipulating spell rotations and gear setups using third party simulators. In addition to that, as a top ranked guild we dealt with and engaged in talent poaching. Other guilds trying to recruit your people us constantly looking for good talent.

Just like any other game, 98% of the players were bads or just casuals, that remaining 2% were highly sought after and respected.

Not sure what my point is, but I saw your post and it reminded me of how serious I used to be before I started having kids and needed to become a bad/casual myself. I chose Eve to be my home for that new lifestyle ;)

If anyone ever looks at you and says,_ "Hold my beer, watch this,"_  you're probably going to want to pay attention.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2011-12-02 15:01:48 UTC
Krathos Morpheus wrote:
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
T-Jay Charante wrote:
I hate to break it to you, but EvE is just a game, like any other game.
And when you log in you cease to exit in real world. Right there.
No you don't. Try it for a week, I bet it won't pass a full day until you have to go pee because you still exist here.


"I pee therefore I am." -- Renal Descartes
Kurama Bingyi
Doomheim
#27 - 2011-12-02 15:09:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Kurama Bingyi
The game provides the illusion of reality because everything we do in this game has a consequence, just like how it is in life.

People can betray each other, snitch on each other to other players, scam other players out of their money, kill other players and benefit from it. People can bring down entire corporations through sheer force of will. A war could erupt over something trivial such as the destruction of a low-tier ship.

The game feels real because we take part in this universe.

"Nay," responded Kurama Bingyi, "to crush your enemies, to see them fall at your feet - to take their horses and goods and hear the lamentation of their women. That is best."
Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#28 - 2011-12-02 16:01:16 UTC
If you leave your basement so infrequently that direct sunlight hurts your eyes, Eve is Real.
Hark Hanam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2011-12-02 16:07:12 UTC
Sharing a fiction doesn't make it real : if i manage to convince 1 or 50 000 or all the people that i'm 560 meters tall and that i spit fireballs like the real lizardman's king i am, it won't be real even if they start building some real temples in washington for human sacrifices : their mistakes will be real, these temple will be real, but i won't be a lizardman (i'm sad about it by the way).

EVE receive its meaning from users. That's where its reality starts and ends, players are doing things "in the name of", it doesn't create any sort of reality to anything following the "of".

In the name of the 560 meters lizardman, i link this illustration showing that a pipe is not a pipe.
Magritte
Whyumadtho
Doomheim
#30 - 2011-12-02 16:08:20 UTC
When you are starting to confront yourself with these types of questions:

1. Get a camera
2. Video tape yourself sitting at the PC every night for a week
3. Answer your own question
4. ???
5. Profit
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2011-12-02 16:09:54 UTC
Hark Hanam wrote:
Sharing a fiction doesn't make it real : if i manage to convince 1 or 50 000 or all the people that i'm 560 meters tall and that i spit fireballs like the real lizardman's king i am, it won't be real even if they start building some real temples in washington for human sacrifices : their mistakes will be real, these temple will be real, but i won't be a lizardman (i'm sad about it by the way).


Unfortunately religion is a real phenomenon and works exactly that way.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
#32 - 2011-12-02 16:36:37 UTC
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Hark Hanam wrote:
Sharing a fiction doesn't make it real : if i manage to convince 1 or 50 000 or all the people that i'm 560 meters tall and that i spit fireballs like the real lizardman's king i am, it won't be real even if they start building some real temples in washington for human sacrifices : their mistakes will be real, these temple will be real, but i won't be a lizardman (i'm sad about it by the way).


Unfortunately religion is a real phenomenon and works exactly that way.
And just the same it doesn't make it real.

All worship the Giant Lizardman.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2011-12-02 20:39:37 UTC
Mahakaharashi RedEagle wrote:
As long as your ingame character cannot perma die, it's a game like any other game out there. Certainly somewhat harsher than average MMORPG yet wooly soft compared to some hard core sims.
What are these hardcore sims?
Cozmik R5
Chez Stan
#34 - 2011-12-02 20:51:19 UTC
EVE is pixels. Playing a drum solo is not.

Care to guess which one I think is real?

Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2011-12-02 20:53:40 UTC
Cozmik R5 wrote:
EVE is pixels. Playing a drum solo is not.
A well-orchestrated fight might require the finesse of a good drum solo.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2011-12-02 20:53:46 UTC
EvE is real in as much as it is a video game.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
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