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Buff the Automated Targeting Systems
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Cekle Skyscales
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-04-30 21:03:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Cekle Skyscales
Now, I know what you might be thinking.

"What's an automated targeting system?"

Well, it turns out there's this module called the Auto Targeting System I that automatically targets any hostile ship within a given range, and adds 2-3 to the ship's max number of targets.

I propose we buff this little module, enabling it to target cloaked ships within its range as well. What this means is that the Auto Targeting System II will be able to detect cloaked ships within 60km. This gives us a much more sophisticated counter to cloaked ships on grid than just "try to run into them".

There is potential for abuse of this system if the module works on ships that have just jumped through a stargate, so it might be wise to assert that it only works on module-induced cloaking. Something something the gate cloak is projected therefore stronger something something.

Edit: This would be an effect similar to how the module currently works. When activated, all nearby hostile ships, including cloaked ones, are targeted. This effect will not happen again until the module cycles, so it could be adjusted to be ever 5 seconds, every 10... 20... whatever to become balanced. Think of it more like a Survey Scanner, but for nearby ships.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-04-30 21:07:49 UTC
I will admit, I think this might be a new anti-cloaking concept. Could be wrong though.

No, cloaking is fine as is.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#3 - 2014-04-30 21:12:13 UTC
Cekle Skyscales wrote:
There is potential for abuse of this system if the module works on ships that have just jumped through a stargate, so it might be wise to assert that it only works on module-induced cloaking. Something something the gate cloak is projected therefore stronger something something.

You think? No.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Anogra
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-04-30 21:34:14 UTC
i dont see a problem with this, but if its supposed to lock cloaked targets within 60km, then it needs to have a delay from activation to effect. to counter pre-cycle it would have to work like this

At start of activation it checks if there is any cloaked ships within range, if no, it cycles and nothing happends
if yes, it cycles for x amount of seconds, before it starts the locking of said cloaked target (locking start at end of the cycle and locking time is as pr usual scan res vs sig radius ect).

This will prevent gatecamps from just perma running them, as it only checks at start of cycle, then it takes x amount of seconds before it starts the lock, then it starts locking, once locked the target uncloacks.

now before someone says "stop crying about afk cloaky campers!" its not about that. u need to be on grid, and within range of the target. its very easy to avoid that as a camper, but this atleast helps the locals incase they actually manage to get on grid with em. mind you, the cloaked person can still warp off (if covop) before they are able to lock.

To make it not be too powerfull with fitting em on disposable frigs ect, i say we should outsource this module to only be fitable to electronic warfare ships (ships and cruisers)

thoughts?

Anogra
Jur Tissant
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-04-30 22:22:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Jur Tissant
I agree that auto-target systems are kind of a waste of a module slot. The idea isn't terrible but it would have to be severely limited - e.g. it could only target ships within a 10km radius or so and/or with a greatly reduced scan res. The 60km radius you suggest would cripple cloaking, especially the cloak/mwd trick haulers in low-sec use.

I would prefer for them to just revamp the module altogether into something more useful.
Thegasp Cupcakes
CareBears Gone Dark
#6 - 2014-04-30 22:28:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Thegasp Cupcakes
What about wormholes that rely on cloaking. Watching wormholes, gathering intel on who is in their system.. That would screw any cloaky ship... which also has a tank of a leaf.

Edit: Also, remember once one is locked, it can't cloak again until its unlocked..
Cekle Skyscales
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-04-30 22:46:56 UTC
Thegasp Cupcakes wrote:
What about wormholes that rely on cloaking. Watching wormholes, gathering intel on who is in their system.. That would screw any cloaky ship... which also has a tank of a leaf.

Edit: Also, remember once one is locked, it can't cloak again until its unlocked..


Stay 70km away from the nearest ship.
Cekle Skyscales
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-04-30 22:50:39 UTC
Jur Tissant wrote:
I agree that auto-target systems are kind of a waste of a module slot. The idea isn't terrible but it would have to be severely limited - e.g. it could only target ships within a 10km radius or so and/or with a greatly reduced scan res. The 60km radius you suggest would cripple cloaking, especially the cloak/mwd trick haulers in low-sec use.

I would prefer for them to just revamp the module altogether into something more useful.


It would cripple close range cloaking, I agree. However, the ship would be sacrificing one of its high slots on the off chance that it will encounter a cloaked target.

As for the gate camp issue, I think that cloaking devices should be able to be activated while still gate-cloaked. Since this module effectively counters cloaking, there's no need for the target to become temporarily visible.
Arla Sarain
#9 - 2014-04-30 23:00:13 UTC
Do people actually know how it works now?


It only begins targeting after the 5 second cycle time. It only targets stuff that red boxes you. It doesn't show up the targeting reticule. It uses your scan res to determine the time to lock. So the actual time to lock is quite long. Usually like 8 seconds from activation.

All in all its pretty **** module, seemingly only good to go with the odd utility high slot frigs, like T1 tackle ships that have only max 4 targets. Not that making it target cloaked people is a good idea IMO.

If it begins targeting cloaked people, that's just one more ship that can't go to null because of all the bubbles.
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#10 - 2014-04-30 23:01:01 UTC
Anogra wrote:
i dont see a problem with this, but if its supposed to lock cloaked targets within 60km, then it needs to have a delay from activation to effect. to counter pre-cycle it would have to work like this

At start of activation it checks if there is any cloaked ships within range, if no, it cycles and nothing happends
if yes, it cycles for x amount of seconds, before it starts the locking of said cloaked target (locking start at end of the cycle and locking time is as pr usual scan res vs sig radius ect).

This will prevent gatecamps from just perma running them, as it only checks at start of cycle, then it takes x amount of seconds before it starts the lock, then it starts locking, once locked the target uncloacks.

now before someone says "stop crying about afk cloaky campers!" its not about that. u need to be on grid, and within range of the target. its very easy to avoid that as a camper, but this atleast helps the locals incase they actually manage to get on grid with em. mind you, the cloaked person can still warp off (if covop) before they are able to lock.

To make it not be too powerfull with fitting em on disposable frigs ect, i say we should outsource this module to only be fitable to electronic warfare ships (ships and cruisers)

thoughts?

Anogra


actually - since they don't take much cap - gate camps will have them and perma-run them in the hope that anything that jumps through gets caught shortly after it cloaks - say the neutral ship jumps through half way through the cycle, moves and cloaks at 3/4 through the cycle, and is decloaked 2s later (or w/e) - to make this effect even more problematic, the camps will run the auto-targeters out of sync, or possibly dedicate a ship to them in bigger camps

cloaking is fine as it is. auto-targeters are not

please fix the auto-targeter without breaking another perfectly fine gameplay mechanic

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-04-30 23:03:01 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
Do people actually know how it works now?


It only begins targeting after the 5 second cycle time. It only targets stuff that red boxes you. It doesn't show up the targeting reticule. It uses your scan res to determine the time to lock. So the actual time to lock is quite long. Usually like 8 seconds from activation.

All in all its pretty **** module, seemingly only good to go with the odd utility high slot frigs, like T1 tackle ships that have only max 4 targets. Not that making it target cloaked people is a good idea IMO.

If it begins targeting cloaked people, that's just one more ship that can't go to null because of all the bubbles.

Actually pretty much the only people that use this thing are mission runners, and they only use it for the extra targets it allows.
Arla Sarain
#12 - 2014-05-01 09:17:49 UTC
What if it circumvented the targeting delay after decloaking, but only if people redbox you. Still keep the cycle time, but put it a bit short. Like 2 seconds instead of 5. So it locks in 2+whatever you scanres determines (also diminished by the equipped cloak). So all in all you save whatever the targetting delay - (2+time due to scan res) seconds.

Considering with 3 t1 rigs your recalibration time goes down to about 7 seconds and usual targetting is about 3-5 seconds you'd be saving at most 2 seconds in recalibration time ASSUMING they redbox you before your ATU cycles. So they'd have to target you and redbox within 2s. Which can be difficult.

That and then there is an element of strategy around this - if a ship decloaks near you, speculating that it might have an ATU, evaluate how long it would take YOU to lock it and attempt to time it so that it falls out of the first ATU cycle so that when you redbox the cloaker it loses time that he's trying to save, which could be quite a bit if he's not using recalibration time rigs.


I guess no because buffing cloaks is inviting a lot of hate.
Albert Madullier
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-05-01 10:22:17 UTC
typical renter carebears thread
Atlantis Fuanan
Wormhole Research Inc.
#14 - 2014-05-01 11:26:45 UTC
I am living in a WH so cloaking is something essential and everyday-ish to me. But still, i really like that idea, probably not very happy about that range (i feel 60km is a bit too much). Above that, i have no time to check it out right now, but is there any visual effect on a ship using an autotarget module? I was thinking of a chance for cloaked ships to realize they will be detected soon and to make a move on (either towards attack or to get off a bit so they can scout more).

[u]Things that would make EVE better:[/u] NRDS - Remove Local - Balance Cloak - Sov-Mechanic Changes - Less QQ
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#15 - 2014-05-01 12:48:37 UTC
Cekle Skyscales wrote:

I propose we buff this little module, enabling it to target cloaked ships within its range as well.

http://i.imgur.com/tOqhKh4.gif

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

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