These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

Apocalypse L4s help me pinpoint this one
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-04-29 22:59:16 UTC
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:
Tried raven \ cnr and SNI all of them were extremely powerful without MJD and any other prop mod just sat there killed everything ... utter snooze fest.

You will find out once you get higher skills pretty much any mission gets boring. With your skills the Apoc will make it more difficult so maybe this will interest you. If you want excitement try PVP. Even in a cheap ship it can be exciting.
Arrenslew
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2014-04-29 23:16:40 UTC
I have to chime in, as the Apoc is my missioning ship of choice. Unfortunately I'm at work so I don't have an EFT fit to link, however let me see if I can remember off-hand and rebuild it by memory.

[Apocalypse, Arren's]
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Micro Jump Drive I
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Capacitor Recharger II
Capacitor Recharger II

- Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
- Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
- Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
- Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
- Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
- Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
- Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
- Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x5

Rigs may be off, might be swapped one of the CCC's for another ACR. I am cap stable without the tank running firing anything except Multifreq.

I carry IN Standard, IN Xray and IN Multi for use from 140km to 40km. Anything within 40km, I MJD to create distance again...very rarely do I even need to run the tank.

Meta as needed :)
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#23 - 2014-04-29 23:37:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Inkarr Hashur
Guess I can't vouch for it after all.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#24 - 2014-04-30 00:44:10 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
I would vouch for Arren's fit being excellent for new pilots.

Might want to try an elutriation rig with that just to see how it goes.


Looks nice. This is what I made in EFT. Faction heat sinks were needed to keep under the CPU limit. If you don't have weapon upgrades 5 you'll need a +3 CPU implant even with the faction heatsinks

The only change I would make is replace a Tracking Enhancer II with an EM Hardener II


[Apocalypse, Arren's]
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Large Micro Jump Drive
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x5
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2014-04-30 02:07:35 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
I would vouch for Arren's fit being excellent for new pilots.

Might want to try an elutriation rig with that just to see how it goes.


Looks nice. This is what I made in EFT. Faction heat sinks were needed to keep under the CPU limit. If you don't have weapon upgrades 5 you'll need a +3 CPU implant even with the faction heatsinks

The only change I would make is replace a Tracking Enhancer II with an EM Hardener II


[Apocalypse, Arren's]
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Large Micro Jump Drive
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x5


You need AWU to fit that, so Weapon Upgrades V is kind of mandatory regardless.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-04-30 02:53:28 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
I would vouch for Arren's fit being excellent for new pilots.

Might want to try an elutriation rig with that just to see how it goes.


Looks nice. This is what I made in EFT. Faction heat sinks were needed to keep under the CPU limit. If you don't have weapon upgrades 5 you'll need a +3 CPU implant even with the faction heatsinks

The only change I would make is replace a Tracking Enhancer II with an EM Hardener II


[Apocalypse, Arren's]
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Large Micro Jump Drive
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard L

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x5


You need AWU to fit that, so Weapon Upgrades V is kind of mandatory regardless.


Very true! I didn't notice that before. If you use meta 4 guns you can get away without WU 5 or if you have it without the second ACR
Vallik Vakarian
Sub optimal
#27 - 2014-04-30 05:41:02 UTC
I was in the same boat as you initially, prefering to be up close and personal using pulses for fun but being new (little over 2 months now) I found that unless I devoted all of my low slots to tank, incl a double rep setup and all my mids/rigs to cap recharge it was just not feasible to be within pulse range on the majority of L4's. I was having to burst down a couple of ships then warp out, rinse and repeat and everything just took way too long.

I switched to the below build and things went from crazy slow and dangerous to incredibly easy. It's obviously not as fast as all these long time all skills @ 5 players but I can easily clear 20-30 mil an hour running L4's lazily and coming back to loot and salvage in a coercer (not even a noctis) depending on what missions I get. That level of income is more than fine for my needs.

[Apocalypse, PvE Snipe]
Prototype Armor EM Hardener I
Prototype Armor Thermic Hardener I
Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I

Large Micro Jump Drive
Cap Recharger II
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines
Optical Tracking Computer I, Optimal Range Script

Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

With my skills (mostly level 4) this gives 499dps @ 41+29 with INMF, 416dps @ 61+29 with INXray and 333 dps @ 82+29 with INStandard. I MJD to range and pop frigates/destroyers and cruisers with standard. Then I start popping the bigger things with xray for the most part, switching to INMF when they get in range. If there is too much incoming damage just MJD again.

I get about 2m 30s of cap running everything with INMF, 5m 30s with standard. It's stable without repper.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-04-30 13:08:20 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
Vallik Vakarian wrote:
I was in the same boat as you initially, prefering to be up close and personal using pulses for fun but being new (little over 2 months now) I found that unless I devoted all of my low slots to tank, incl a double rep setup and all my mids/rigs to cap recharge it was just not feasible to be within pulse range on the majority of L4's. I was having to burst down a couple of ships then warp out, rinse and repeat and everything just took way too long.

I switched to the below build and things went from crazy slow and dangerous to incredibly easy. It's obviously not as fast as all these long time all skills @ 5 players but I can easily clear 20-30 mil an hour running L4's lazily and coming back to loot and salvage in a coercer (not even a noctis) depending on what missions I get. That level of income is more than fine for my needs.

[Apocalypse, PvE Snipe]
Prototype Armor EM Hardener I
Prototype Armor Thermic Hardener I
Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I

Large Micro Jump Drive
Cap Recharger II
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines
Optical Tracking Computer I, Optimal Range Script

Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

With my skills (mostly level 4) this gives 499dps @ 41+29 with INMF, 416dps @ 61+29 with INXray and 333 dps @ 82+29 with INStandard. I MJD to range and pop frigates/destroyers and cruisers with standard. Then I start popping the bigger things with xray for the most part, switching to INMF when they get in range. If there is too much incoming damage just MJD again.

I get about 2m 30s of cap running everything with INMF, 5m 30s with standard. It's stable without repper.


It looks nice but you could try something like this. It has about the same amount of cap but a second tracking computer for more range. It doesn't require AWU or WU to 5. I would work on upgrading some of the T1 stuff soon because that would help a lot.


[Apocalypse, PvE Snipe copy 1]
Prototype Armor EM Hardener I
Prototype Armor Thermic Hardener I
Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Type-D Power Core Modification: Diagnostic System

Large Micro Jump Drive
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Targeting Range Script
Optical Tracking Computer I, Optimal Range Script
Optical Tracking Computer I, Optimal Range Script

Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2014-05-01 08:27:52 UTC
Apoc is my favorite ship but I don't yet have T2 large lasers for it and missioning was fairly painful even with T2 tank. Doing PvE with a Raven now and the difference is amazing. Even with T1 tank the Raven never has to move and with precision missiles enemy frigates are a piece of cake to deal with.

I'm flying in Amarr space and often go up against Blood Raiders which was OK with the Apoc but the odd Gurrista missions were so painful I just threw in the towel.

Amarr is my favorite race though so I plan on going back and giving it another shot once I get those T2 lasers trained up. I'll keep the Raven as a back up any time my mission agent throws me at Gurristas.
Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#30 - 2014-05-01 08:33:54 UTC
from my experiance for pve:
missiles > all else.
with missiles you can easily pick the range\damage and damage type + with bit of skills and target painter anything from cruiser up will melt from cruise missiles like nothing.
Unter Daem
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-05-01 16:07:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Unter Daem
you might also consider checking out the minmatar ship line. many of them will allow you to keep your shield tank doctrine, while also allowing you to make use of gunnery with projectiles, which also allow you to choose your damage type, to an extent. Their BS line also includes the phoon, which is (from what i hear) currently the #1 dps missile hull in the game. just remember, if you're going to use them to continue killing laser users in amarr space, you'll want to plug your em resist hole.
McRoll
Extraction and Exploration Ltd.
#32 - 2014-05-01 22:49:55 UTC
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:
from my experiance for pve:
missiles > all else.
with missiles you can easily pick the range\damage and damage type + with bit of skills and target painter anything from cruiser up will melt from cruise missiles like nothing.


Well I can tell you that you are wrong. Missiles only seem that way because they are easier to get into and you have quite some ships that are just good for missionrunning with missiles. If you train further on you start to realize that turret weapons have tremendous damage potential and offer instant damage application as well as volleying frigs and cruisers.

However you need to be able to use T2 and have all the support skills up to at least 4 and pick the right ship. Apoc does not do much damage in comparison, so you cannot compare it to a navy raven for example and expect to perform the same way. Amarr only really starts to shine with ships like Nightmare / Paladin and in their specific rat regions. When I tried a Vargur vs a Golem for instance, I much preferred the Vargur because despite the lower on paper DPS I was able to clear rooms faster due to the fact that most missions and plexes contain more small **** than big **** and thats where turrets shine.

Also for PvP turrets >>>>> missiles with some exceptions of course. Perhaps one day you will want to try PvP at least.
Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#33 - 2014-05-01 23:08:10 UTC
oh I tried pvp I used guns and drones ofc.
but missiles might be good for pvp to deal with kiters and EWAR and such... on rare occasions.
McRoll
Extraction and Exploration Ltd.
#34 - 2014-05-01 23:51:12 UTC  |  Edited by: McRoll
It works like this, depending on what PvP you might be doing and which ships you are flying, you usually want instant damage application and (maybe) alpha to take out hostiles as quickly as possible. This is the case if you fly in groups vs groups. You want to reduce incoming damage quickly to save you and your fleet members.

Missiles typically do not offer this, since the target can mitigate your damage by simply moving and missiles take time to reach the target. Also, many missile ships are flown with shields and you are limited in your choice of EWAR in the mids.

Mind you missiles work well on smaller ship level like frigs where you can do buffer shield setups and genereally solo or smaller groups when you have more engagement time but the bigger the ships get and the bigger the gang size is, you want turrets because you have a way wider variety of platforms and better damage application.

You should be thinking about what type of PvP you want to be doing and what ship types and groups you want to fly. All this takes a lot of time and experience, simply trying some turret ships a couple of times with mediocre skills doesn't show you the picture. There is a reason most of PvP engagements at all scales and ship types and sizes is flown with turrets.

For example, I did PvP alone and in groups. I flew quite some time in RvB where you have mostly small T1 stuff. I did it alone and in the fleet and I found out that turreted ships simply outperform missiles because I can alpha small stuff instantly with cruisers and destroyers and I have way better options at close range with blasters or at longer range with lasers or projectiles. Right now I am in lowsec where I fly mostly in a cruiser sized gang and again turrets are better because we stick mainly to armor due to the EWAR options in midslots which we need and because we need to kill stuff fast before it burns to gates or away or starts laying damage over extended periods of time on us

I can imagine that in 0.0 turrets are also preferred in all fleet sizes.
Vallik Vakarian
Sub optimal
#35 - 2014-05-04 00:50:26 UTC
IIshira wrote:
It looks nice but you could try something like this. It has about the same amount of cap but a second tracking computer for more range. It doesn't require AWU or WU to 5. I would work on upgrading some of the T1 stuff soon because that would help a lot.


The plan was always to head for a Nightmare so I didn't want to waste time just yet on T2 armor tank - I can already fit a T2 shield tank. I got that NM yesterday and wow... it is worlds different. The extra dps just melts things like crazy. The only thing I am missing now is the T2 tracking computer and T2 tachyons so that's what is training now.
Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#36 - 2014-05-04 00:57:15 UTC
so I tried beam harbinger...
awesome sauce... this weapon melts stuff like boss... insta poping frigs is great as well!
Previous page12