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[Rubicon] Audio changes feedback

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Author
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#441 - 2014-04-20 17:25:59 UTC
Liner Xiandra wrote:
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
Pertuabo Enkidgan wrote:
Hey uh
Ignore if already answered, but engine hums are gone. not talking about MWD but the hums themselves are gone.

but if you dock and undock again, are they still gone?
they are supposed to be there.


I've not heard engine hums, nor afterburner or MWD sounds at all in game, since the MWD sound got patched out again to get fixed. So a good couple of months now. I think I've bugreported it a few times now as well.

edit: after checking SiSi again:

Oh wow, it's actually there. Even the faintest whisper has more loudness to it though. It's drowned out completely by the humm of stations/gates/celestials.

Can the volume slider on these be turned up to 11 please? Not kidding.


uhm, are you serious or was that a joke?
are the sounds actually drowning each other or ?
I don't have access to sisi "right now" so I can't double check, but the boosters, MWD and AB are working right???????

if celestials, stations and gates are now too loud, I will need to go over that once I get back into Reykjavik. I haven't changed anything on those, so if they are now extremely loud, something is messed up somewhere else, hopefully something I can fix on my own or find the person who can fix fast, because it's really annoying if it's messed up on someone else's desk, who has already moved on to something else. (they often don't bother about sound bugs)

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.

Liner Xiandra
Sparks Inc
#442 - 2014-04-20 18:32:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Liner Xiandra
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:


uhm, are you serious or was that a joke?
are the sounds actually drowning each other or ?
I don't have access to sisi "right now" so I can't double check, but the boosters, MWD and AB are working right???????

if celestials, stations and gates are now too loud, I will need to go over that once I get back into Reykjavik. I haven't changed anything on those, so if they are now extremely loud, something is messed up somewhere else, hopefully something I can fix on my own or find the person who can fix fast, because it's really annoying if it's messed up on someone else's desk, who has already moved on to something else. (they often don't bother about sound bugs)


Cheers for the followup;
I'm really not joking, If i set all my sound sliders to 100, except for the music one, I can barely distinguish an engine sound. Only if I play with the camera angle I am able to hear the change in engine-'grumble' (switching between a camera facing the front of the ship VS. looking straight up the engines) but without spinning the camera around I wouldn't be able to hear it at all to catch the change. I also need to be zoomed up with the ship covering my entire viewport for this, any zooming out to get a bearing of your surroundings and it will already be too far from the ship to hear.

Quote:
if celestials, stations and gates are now too loud, I will need to go over that once I get back into Reykjavik.


Celestials stations and gates sound as loud as I expect them to be; but they do drown out the whisper of the engine sound.
Engine/ab/mwd really needs a buff compared to everything else.


This is all from Sisi, on TQ I can't hear a thing engine wise.
WarFireV
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#443 - 2014-04-21 10:41:18 UTC
Eve has audio?!?!?!
Pertuabo Enkidgan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#444 - 2014-04-22 16:27:28 UTC
Any chance of turret weaponry sounding different based on ammo in the future (like with missiles)?
Conflagration has a sizziling effect after shooting, or radio some sort of echo-effect, something like that.
kdog666
The Hornets Nest
#445 - 2014-04-22 16:52:50 UTC
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
Marc McIntyre Crendraven wrote:
Are you guys making any changes to the turret sounds in this summer expansion? The current turret sounds sound so pathetic in my opinion, auto-cannons aren't too bad but the rest sound like im shooting BB guns. Very underwhelming.


right now.. no.
BUT. it all depends on how fast I can finish some other things, if I can do that in time and have some spare hours left towards release, I'll give them a go.

one thing though, is that it's really difficult to make them sound "not like BB guns".
I do think they sound cool and that they have a lot of power in them, but the way EVE is setup technically and the way that the game is most often played, makes it quite difficult to make the game sound powerful.

but you are right. I did these new turrets, which I did believe was an upgrade from the old ones, but still not enough, back in 2012 - it's time they get a serious replacement and not just a small upgrade like last time.

but know that I also have an open mailbox for when I do this, which is right next to my door, in a trashcan!!! the amount of hate mail and death threats I get every time I change something, like last time, is quite substantial!!!

again, let me know if you guys are coming to Fanfest, we could have a nice sober and then a drunk chat about turrets and stuff, we might find a solution to the answer 42 anyway.


I personally think you do a fantastic job. The only thing I didn't like about the turret sound changes was: 1) The change in strip miner sounds, and 2) The change in battleship beam laser sounds. Last one was a serious bummer :(

Thank you for continuing to iterate and improve on eve's sounds, despite the hate mail you actually do a great job.
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#446 - 2014-04-22 19:36:00 UTC
Liner Xiandra wrote:
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:


uhm, are you serious or was that a joke?
are the sounds actually drowning each other or ?
I don't have access to sisi "right now" so I can't double check, but the boosters, MWD and AB are working right???????

if celestials, stations and gates are now too loud, I will need to go over that once I get back into Reykjavik. I haven't changed anything on those, so if they are now extremely loud, something is messed up somewhere else, hopefully something I can fix on my own or find the person who can fix fast, because it's really annoying if it's messed up on someone else's desk, who has already moved on to something else. (they often don't bother about sound bugs)


Cheers for the followup;
I'm really not joking, If i set all my sound sliders to 100, except for the music one, I can barely distinguish an engine sound. Only if I play with the camera angle I am able to hear the change in engine-'grumble' (switching between a camera facing the front of the ship VS. looking straight up the engines) but without spinning the camera around I wouldn't be able to hear it at all to catch the change. I also need to be zoomed up with the ship covering my entire viewport for this, any zooming out to get a bearing of your surroundings and it will already be too far from the ship to hear.

Quote:
if celestials, stations and gates are now too loud, I will need to go over that once I get back into Reykjavik.


Celestials stations and gates sound as loud as I expect them to be; but they do drown out the whisper of the engine sound.
Engine/ab/mwd really needs a buff compared to everything else.


This is all from Sisi, on TQ I can't hear a thing engine wise.


Yea, I noticed it too.
I'll look into it. they are not supposed to be like that of course.

Don't know what happened on TQ, I certainly didn't change anything that took this away. (sending eyes to my coder!!!!!!)

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.

CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#447 - 2014-04-22 19:37:11 UTC
Pertuabo Enkidgan wrote:
Any chance of turret weaponry sounding different based on ammo in the future (like with missiles)?
Conflagration has a sizziling effect after shooting, or radio some sort of echo-effect, something like that.


no. not right now.
It's something we discuss once in a while, when brainstorming on what we have time to do on our own along with all the other features we need to support.
but it's a good idea for sure.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.

CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#448 - 2014-04-22 19:38:47 UTC
kdog666 wrote:
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
Marc McIntyre Crendraven wrote:
Are you guys making any changes to the turret sounds in this summer expansion? The current turret sounds sound so pathetic in my opinion, auto-cannons aren't too bad but the rest sound like im shooting BB guns. Very underwhelming.


right now.. no.
BUT. it all depends on how fast I can finish some other things, if I can do that in time and have some spare hours left towards release, I'll give them a go.

one thing though, is that it's really difficult to make them sound "not like BB guns".
I do think they sound cool and that they have a lot of power in them, but the way EVE is setup technically and the way that the game is most often played, makes it quite difficult to make the game sound powerful.

but you are right. I did these new turrets, which I did believe was an upgrade from the old ones, but still not enough, back in 2012 - it's time they get a serious replacement and not just a small upgrade like last time.

but know that I also have an open mailbox for when I do this, which is right next to my door, in a trashcan!!! the amount of hate mail and death threats I get every time I change something, like last time, is quite substantial!!!

again, let me know if you guys are coming to Fanfest, we could have a nice sober and then a drunk chat about turrets and stuff, we might find a solution to the answer 42 anyway.


I personally think you do a fantastic job. The only thing I didn't like about the turret sound changes was: 1) The change in strip miner sounds, and 2) The change in battleship beam laser sounds. Last one was a serious bummer :(

Thank you for continuing to iterate and improve on eve's sounds, despite the hate mail you actually do a great job.


Uhm. when you say, the last sound of the battleship beam laser? do you mean the one that was there before winter 2012? or has it changed recently?

I don't know about the strip miner sounds changing, I haven't changed them for sure. let me check on those.

And thanks for liking our stuff. ;) I really , really really, appreciate it.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.

TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#449 - 2014-04-23 19:54:52 UTC
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
oh trust me, ;) you will like this one.
It will be a big step for EVE audio.


You will bring back the jukebox?

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-

CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#450 - 2014-04-24 13:53:34 UTC
TheSmokingHertog wrote:
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
oh trust me, ;) you will like this one.
It will be a big step for EVE audio.


You will bring back the jukebox?


no that would be a step back, right.?

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.

Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#451 - 2014-04-24 15:48:36 UTC
It gets incredibly monotonous to hear the same music over and over and over again. I know it's probably hard as a sound designer but at least the option to shuffle the ENTIRE ingame soundtrack (read: turn off the adaptive music) would possibly get me to turn the sounds back on for this game.
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#452 - 2014-04-24 16:52:52 UTC
Destoya wrote:
It gets incredibly monotonous to hear the same music over and over and over again. I know it's probably hard as a sound designer but at least the option to shuffle the ENTIRE ingame soundtrack (read: turn off the adaptive music) would possibly get me to turn the sounds back on for this game.

Sound =/= Music

If you don't want to use the ingame apaptive music then just turn it off and play the music, or any music, in whatever jukebox/music software you want.

CCP supporting and upgrading the in-game adaptive music makes sense, supporting a jukebox does not.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#453 - 2014-04-24 23:08:04 UTC
Destoya wrote:
It gets incredibly monotonous to hear the same music over and over and over again. I know it's probably hard as a sound designer but at least the option to shuffle the ENTIRE ingame soundtrack (read: turn off the adaptive music) would possibly get me to turn the sounds back on for this game.


yea, the two other guys are "thinking" about it.
Don't know when they will have a solution ready, but they trying to both fix it and come up with something new. as I do really understand and support you in this, that it's too monotonous.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.

mkint
#454 - 2014-04-25 01:12:42 UTC  |  Edited by: mkint
I'm definitely an "EVE has sound?"-er. I tried turning sounds back on a few months ago, but I just couldn't take it. I think my ideal sound situation in EVE would be for the sound itself to be much more subtle. Something like a quiet rumbling of the guns rather than a RATTA-TAT-TAT. Maybe a pronounced "ka chinc" sound after ammo's done reloading. A quiet wind sound for propulsion mods that is no less obtrusive than the engine and wind noises while riding in a car or a jet liner. Pretty much everything that runs on automatic should fade easily into the background as white noise, and save the higher registers for sounds that urgently need attention. Things like the sound of incoming fire hitting hull should be higher volume and pitch than fire hitting shields, for example. As it is, sounds in EVE distract from what's happening instead of emphasizing it.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#455 - 2014-04-25 15:48:35 UTC
mkint wrote:
I'm definitely an "EVE has sound?"-er. I tried turning sounds back on a few months ago, but I just couldn't take it. I think my ideal sound situation in EVE would be for the sound itself to be much more subtle. Something like a quiet rumbling of the guns rather than a RATTA-TAT-TAT. Maybe a pronounced "ka chinc" sound after ammo's done reloading. A quiet wind sound for propulsion mods that is no less obtrusive than the engine and wind noises while riding in a car or a jet liner. Pretty much everything that runs on automatic should fade easily into the background as white noise, and save the higher registers for sounds that urgently need attention. Things like the sound of incoming fire hitting hull should be higher volume and pitch than fire hitting shields, for example. As it is, sounds in EVE distract from what's happening instead of emphasizing it.


Yea, because what kind of damage done and so on, is really easy to code right? there is a reason to why it's not in.
Boosters and propulsion are becoming quieter for next release.

and guns, ? well, so far you are the only one requesting they shuold be more subtle, everybody else saying their thoughts on this, want them more aggressive, bass'ier, heavier.

and for someone like you, if you can't take it, I'm sorry - but I'm not the aesthetics guy to mention this to, I have a boss for that.

and for someone like you, the stuff coming in this summer, presented at FanFest on thursday, will be just what you need ;)

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.

mkint
#456 - 2014-04-25 22:37:33 UTC
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
mkint wrote:
I'm definitely an "EVE has sound?"-er. I tried turning sounds back on a few months ago, but I just couldn't take it. I think my ideal sound situation in EVE would be for the sound itself to be much more subtle. Something like a quiet rumbling of the guns rather than a RATTA-TAT-TAT. Maybe a pronounced "ka chinc" sound after ammo's done reloading. A quiet wind sound for propulsion mods that is no less obtrusive than the engine and wind noises while riding in a car or a jet liner. Pretty much everything that runs on automatic should fade easily into the background as white noise, and save the higher registers for sounds that urgently need attention. Things like the sound of incoming fire hitting hull should be higher volume and pitch than fire hitting shields, for example. As it is, sounds in EVE distract from what's happening instead of emphasizing it.


Yea, because what kind of damage done and so on, is really easy to code right? there is a reason to why it's not in.
Boosters and propulsion are becoming quieter for next release.

and guns, ? well, so far you are the only one requesting they shuold be more subtle, everybody else saying their thoughts on this, want them more aggressive, bass'ier, heavier.

and for someone like you, if you can't take it, I'm sorry - but I'm not the aesthetics guy to mention this to, I have a boss for that.

and for someone like you, the stuff coming in this summer, presented at FanFest on thursday, will be just what you need ;)

I'll wait until Summer then to try sound out again.

There's a reason why "EVE has sound?" Is a meme. It's the same reason why in sci fi movies the space battles are only a couple minutes long. They bombard you with light and sound in an attempt to overwhelm you with the futureness of the future. In something where the user is expected to be there for possibly hours, it needs a different approach. I'm all for guns being bass'ier, in fact that's exactly what I'm talking about Bass sounds fade into the background more easily, (they make themselves more noticeable by their absence when they stop.) With an "ammo's done reloading" gun cocking sound to punctuate that it's time to start shooting again, the gun sounds would become something that actually communicates instead of just being distracting noise. The concept extrapolates to all sounds.

I know one person's point of view is unlikely to change a developer's direction. But think of how other platforms (games, music, movies, etc) handle their sound. The majority fades into the background. The hum of air conditioning might emphasize where the hero is. But a slamming door indicates something's about to happen. Urgent event = urgent sound. When breaking that pattern, it always makes the listener uncomfortable. In some cases that's the desired effect, but in the case of EVE it

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#457 - 2014-04-29 17:17:52 UTC
mkint wrote:
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
mkint wrote:
I'm definitely an "EVE has sound?"-er. I tried turning sounds back on a few months ago, but I just couldn't take it. I think my ideal sound situation in EVE would be for the sound itself to be much more subtle. Something like a quiet rumbling of the guns rather than a RATTA-TAT-TAT. Maybe a pronounced "ka chinc" sound after ammo's done reloading. A quiet wind sound for propulsion mods that is no less obtrusive than the engine and wind noises while riding in a car or a jet liner. Pretty much everything that runs on automatic should fade easily into the background as white noise, and save the higher registers for sounds that urgently need attention. Things like the sound of incoming fire hitting hull should be higher volume and pitch than fire hitting shields, for example. As it is, sounds in EVE distract from what's happening instead of emphasizing it.


Yea, because what kind of damage done and so on, is really easy to code right? there is a reason to why it's not in.
Boosters and propulsion are becoming quieter for next release.

and guns, ? well, so far you are the only one requesting they shuold be more subtle, everybody else saying their thoughts on this, want them more aggressive, bass'ier, heavier.

and for someone like you, if you can't take it, I'm sorry - but I'm not the aesthetics guy to mention this to, I have a boss for that.

and for someone like you, the stuff coming in this summer, presented at FanFest on thursday, will be just what you need ;)

I'll wait until Summer then to try sound out again.

There's a reason why "EVE has sound?" Is a meme. It's the same reason why in sci fi movies the space battles are only a couple minutes long. They bombard you with light and sound in an attempt to overwhelm you with the futureness of the future. In something where the user is expected to be there for possibly hours, it needs a different approach. I'm all for guns being bass'ier, in fact that's exactly what I'm talking about Bass sounds fade into the background more easily, (they make themselves more noticeable by their absence when they stop.) With an "ammo's done reloading" gun cocking sound to punctuate that it's time to start shooting again, the gun sounds would become something that actually communicates instead of just being distracting noise. The concept extrapolates to all sounds.

I know one person's point of view is unlikely to change a developer's direction. But think of how other platforms (games, music, movies, etc) handle their sound. The majority fades into the background. The hum of air conditioning might emphasize where the hero is. But a slamming door indicates something's about to happen. Urgent event = urgent sound. When breaking that pattern, it always makes the listener uncomfortable. In some cases that's the desired effect, but in the case of EVE it


right , one persons point of view, doesn't change anything .. but not many give me their point of view, and everything I receive I try to help me spawn ideas on how to make EVE sound better. so trust me, it's useful.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.

CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#458 - 2014-04-29 17:19:35 UTC
and one more thing. if you can't make it to Fanfest.
then if you want to know more about what I am presenting and so on, there is no stream from the round table, but I will be on EVE TV - on the second day, may 2nd.

at 3.20 local time. so that's GMT straight up, with no daylight saving.
5.20 CET.

then you can also put a face on who this moron is (perhaps that's not a good thing)

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#459 - 2014-04-29 18:10:19 UTC
is there any devhack to turn off the "acceleration gate tracks"? e.g. what would happen if i find them and remove them from the client myself? Pirate

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Droidyk
Maniacal Miners INC
#460 - 2014-04-29 18:57:25 UTC
Audio issue:
Planetary Interaction environmental sounds still doesn't work when docked in a station. They work without a problem when in space. In space everything else but PI sounds mutes down to background as it is with ISIS or Star Map. Should be the same in station with PI.