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Summer Patch nerfs T2 BPOs?

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Jerome Gouillot
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-04-18 11:40:51 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
Not wishing to stir the pot but T2 BPO's are not really that much of a problem. For the most part higher quantities of T2 items can be made via invention. It's largely a case of envy. I realise the T2 BPOs should not have been distributed as they were at the time but everyone makes mistakes.

NB. I have never owned and probably never will have, or actually want, a T2 BPO. Big smile



Right now, there's no problem with them.

It all depends on the changes to copy times. As long as they're not overly reduced on T2 BPOs, that will continue to be the case. If, say, the copy time was reduced to 1 hour for a full run copy (unlikely) there'd be an issue.


Moving extra materials into base materials also has a potentially significant effect on them, due to the multiplication from negative MLs.


I'm waiting for the later devblogs before going crazy.


this - up to now it is only guessing

If you look at different BP, you will see that the impact of moving extra material into base material has a potential to have either no (e,g. t2 frigate hulls) or huge impacts (e.g. t2 small guns)

Interesting times ahead ....
gas guzzler
Virtus Crusade Highsec Chapter
#22 - 2014-04-18 11:48:29 UTC
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
Not wishing to stir the pot but T2 BPO's are not really that much of a problem. For the most part higher quantities of T2 items can be made via invention. It's largely a case of envy. I realise the T2 BPOs should not have been distributed as they were at the time but everyone makes mistakes.

NB. I have never owned and probably never will have, or actually want, a T2 BPO. Big smile



it's a mistake that could have been mitigated long ago by not giving invention BPCs -4 ME

-4 ME is a big **** you to all non bpo holders
Jerome Gouillot
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-04-18 11:49:39 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:

Moving extra materials into base materials also has a potentially significant effect on them, due to the multiplication from negative MLs.


Good point about the ME on invention. It'll make the T2 BPO more profitable relative to the T2 invented item. I guess it depends on what proportion of the market is BPO generated. I don't think CCP have ever released numbers on this, have they.

CCP Diagoras released some figures in 2012. K162 has them collated somewhere.

Hideously out of date by now, of course.



http://k162space.com/2012/07/17/percentage-of-items-from-invention-vs-tech-2-bpo/

I do not expect the figures to be extremely different now
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#24 - 2014-04-18 12:37:14 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
There is also the matter of location, is there not? A T2 BPO holder could find their favorite station is now too expensive after the patch and changes to build cost per station line. I would imagine this could necessitate a choice of moving a very high value item to a new station which puts it at great risk.

Blockade Runner. That's how I move BPO when I buy them.



Nano Blockade runner, with an insta undock bookmark on the station you're leaving, and an instadock on the station you're going to.

In high-sec, that's close to 'untouchable'.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2014-04-18 13:01:17 UTC
if i had a T2 BPO i would build in a nullsec outpost. moving T2 BPOs through nullsec is much safer than moving them through high :)
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#26 - 2014-04-20 19:19:51 UTC
So you think there will still be T2 BPOs after the last blog


Interesting feedback, thx.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#27 - 2014-04-20 20:35:45 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
So you think there will still be T2 BPOs after the last blog


Interesting feedback, thx.


There's nothing explicit in there that's suggesting that they'll be removed.

Removal would be a kind of major step.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#28 - 2014-04-21 01:36:38 UTC
... notes number of T2 bpo's appearing on contracts recently... P

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-04-21 03:22:11 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
So you think there will still be T2 BPOs after the last blog


Interesting feedback, thx.


there is a bunch of people out there who just p**** their pants
Yi-Ming Gren
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2014-04-21 09:18:32 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
So you think there will still be T2 BPOs after the last blog


Interesting feedback, thx.


Have I said how much I love you lately?
I think I just heard large volume of people **** their pants all at ounce.
Otin Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
Cat Scratch Fevers
#31 - 2014-04-21 15:12:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Otin Bison
Saw a couple of posts about how the quantity of T2 items produced thru invention far outweighs the number produced by T2 BPO holders.

That's not really the issue or question, it's the ME/PE difference that matters. Read the difference as profitability.
The T2 BPO holder's profit margin is vastly greater than that of an inventors.
An inventor can, at best with decryptors, get an ME of -1 or 0 (but then suffers on the PE side).

All that said, i have no real issue with T2 BPOs or their (lucky) holders, I just don't think the inventors need to get boned so hard on the ME rates
Otin Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
Cat Scratch Fevers
#32 - 2014-04-21 15:13:55 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
So you think there will still be T2 BPOs after the last blog
Interesting feedback, thx.


Yes, I believe so ... unless I missed something.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#33 - 2014-04-21 15:43:32 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
So you think there will still be T2 BPOs after the last blog


Interesting feedback, thx.


Dat NDA...

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Laendra
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-04-21 19:20:55 UTC
Tech 2 BPOs are already nerfed. You can get more ISK/hr w/ invention than you lose to BPO owners (assuming single Tech 2 BPO is owned).

Hoping that they allow us to research invented BPCs for material/productivity efficiency, which would allow us to counter the most significant remaining advantage of Tech 2 BPO ownership completely, and make them basically worthless, except for collectors items.

This comes from a Tech 2 ship BPO owner.
Otin Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
Cat Scratch Fevers
#35 - 2014-04-22 15:19:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Otin Bison
double post, oops
Proton Power
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2014-04-22 16:01:08 UTC
Laendra wrote:
Tech 2 BPOs are already nerfed. You can get more ISK/hr w/ invention than you lose to BPO owners (assuming single Tech 2 BPO is owned).

Hoping that they allow us to research invented BPCs for material/productivity efficiency, which would allow us to counter the most significant remaining advantage of Tech 2 BPO ownership completely, and make them basically worthless, except for collectors items.

This comes from a Tech 2 ship BPO owner.


Not sure this would make T2 BPO's worthless for this reason:

T2 BPO Owner - Build T1, Build T2 Comps, Build RAM, Build T2 Item, Sell T2 Item: Profit

Current Invention:

Copy BPO, Install Invention Job, Complete T2 BPO Steps

Proposed Invention:

Copy BPO, Research BPC, Install Invention Job, Complete T2 BPO Steps

Notice right now no matter what invention will take more jobs/steps. I am not saying its bad, just saying it won't make T2 BPO's worthless. Possibly less profit, but won't kill them. People don't like doing invention now, add in the extra step of research the BPC in order to kep up with everyone else already doing it, and you get the picture..
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#37 - 2014-04-22 16:17:50 UTC
Eleisa Joringer wrote:
They wont be nerfed.... they will keep their efficiency if you put them in a pos.

i wonder when james and his new order will gank POSes


Take a look at what kind of HP even a small tower has. A gank is only a theoretical possibility here.

Wardeccing slowpokes who won't or can't transport their stuff to safety will happen a lot more, however.
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#38 - 2014-04-22 19:55:53 UTC
Quote:
Reduce copy time on all blueprints to be less time consuming than manufacturing something out of it. This gives the option to use blueprint copies to build items at Starbases without risking the original.


An implicit nerf to T2 BPOs? After all, one of the things that slows down invention is copying, speeding that up means that all other factors held constant the inventors will have more BPCs to invent from. More BPCs = more invention.
sci0gon
Kaira Innovations
#39 - 2014-04-24 05:29:05 UTC
Bill Sharts wrote:
Bpo copy time is also being reduced significantly (all bpos. Even t2). Which could open up a new market for researched t2 bpcs.

even before that patch comes in there are some t2 bpo's that are being copied and sold out to people which if you have been in the blueprints channel you would of seen this. on top of that I can honestly say that even if they do change the copy time on t2 bpo's if its not better than production time you wont really see many copies of those bpo's floating around unless its someone who cant be bothered to build no more or they're old copies.

Eleisa Joringer wrote:
They wont be nerfed.... they will keep their efficiency if you put them in a pos.

i wonder when james and his new order will gank POSes


im pretty sure regardless if they were to do that it'd take a long time for them to handle a dickstar pos regardless of how many people they threw at it.


Steve Ronuken wrote:
Buff: Extra materials are being moved into base materials, in some fashion. so it's possible for ML to affect it.
Nerf: If you want to manufacture in a POS, the blueprint has to be in that POS.


that nerf not only affects production but also those who rent out their t2 bpo's as it adds more security issues.
HeXxploiT
Doomheim
#40 - 2014-04-29 16:47:37 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
if i had a T2 BPO i would build in a nullsec outpost. moving T2 BPOs through nullsec is much safer than moving them through high :)


Apparently you've never experienced a good nullsec gatecamp with cans and drones every ten meters. I assure you when the system loads and you see all that red you'll be crying for highsec nomatter what your warp strength is. In highsec you have Concord which actually counts for a lot.