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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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A new EvE, and the old one too.

First post
Author
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#81 - 2014-04-28 17:18:20 UTC
motie one wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Bye!

Hope you can afford to keep the staff paid and servers running.


I don't know. I have PLEX just for 4 years of subscription for my 2 accounts. Do you think is that enough?

Invalid signature format

motie one
Secret Passage
#82 - 2014-04-28 17:18:40 UTC
King Fu Hostile wrote:
motie one wrote:
King Fu Hostile wrote:
Erotica1 was banned, and relevant rules updated.

I just disagree with your view that CCP or majority of the players would be tolerant of offensive or abusive behaviour in this game.


Did you read the forum thread discussing it, and how it was argued in exactly the same way just how acceptable and normal it was?
Abusive behaviour is continuously around us, there are amazing people , great friends, and those we have lost.
I have given up hope that this shard if you like will ever recover it's ability to be decent, as those who are determined to bring it down continue to do so more and more every day.

A way through the EvE gate with different starting conditions and ground rules, is Probably CCP's only hope for a continuing business.

But enjoy, I will check in from year to year. i am just a single Player, going the way of many others.


The comments here and elsewhere pretty much unanimously condemned the extent to where Erotica1 took her humiliation project, and also her intention to cause mental suffering.

EVE is perhaps not really as you paint it to be, my personal experiences differ vastly from yours and I find the community rather mature, and players actually quite sharp. There are bad apples, don't get me wrong, but such is the nature of humans. It's easy to minimize their influence on your game, and at worst they only offer you with an opportunity to prove your mental superiority.



No there are lots of really good players, there is a scale of how annoyed they are with the douchbaggery that exists.
All the way from being a complete douchbag up to Enough unscribe me already, with most at the I can tolerate it a little longer stage.

I am not suggesting that EvE gets "cleaned up" or made dull and flavourless.
I am suggesting that there be a different EvE the other side of the EvE gate that offers a place where the positive values if eve are rewarded and emphasised. Still everything the same including PvP but cooperation and creation , are more important than the baser aspects of behaviour.
motie one
Secret Passage
#83 - 2014-04-28 17:19:39 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
motie one wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Bye!

Hope you can afford to keep the staff paid and servers running.


I don't know. I have PLEX just for 4 years of subscription for my 2 accounts. Do you think is that enough?


A noble sacrifice, you didn't buy any shares in WOD did you at the same time?
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#84 - 2014-04-28 17:34:06 UTC
motie one wrote:
A noble sacrifice, you didn't buy any shares in WOD did you at the same time?


Nope. But I gave money for a few of kickstarter projects, does it count?

Invalid signature format

motie one
Secret Passage
#85 - 2014-04-28 17:35:49 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
motie one wrote:
A noble sacrifice, you didn't buy any shares in WOD did you at the same time?


Nope. But I gave money for a few of kickstarter projects, does it count?

Well, CCP have a new one where there is a mirror of EvE through the EVE gate, see original post for details........
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#86 - 2014-04-28 17:37:58 UTC
Well then, let me give imaginary money for imaginary game CCP develops right now.

Invalid signature format

motie one
Secret Passage
#87 - 2014-04-28 17:39:46 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Well then, let me give imaginary money for imaginary game CCP develops right now.


Cool, sounds good, lets see how many imaginary subscriber losses they manage to save, no wait, they need those people they ain't imaginary!

Let's all be honest here, a few ship skins and 3% damage on a mod is not going to keep this game alive. Why are people leaving, why are people not staying past their trial, and why are people fed up? Might be a good idea to solve those issues.
King Fu Hostile
Shiva Furnace
#88 - 2014-04-28 17:41:24 UTC
motie one wrote:
King Fu Hostile wrote:
motie one wrote:
King Fu Hostile wrote:
Erotica1 was banned, and relevant rules updated.

I just disagree with your view that CCP or majority of the players would be tolerant of offensive or abusive behaviour in this game.


Did you read the forum thread discussing it, and how it was argued in exactly the same way just how acceptable and normal it was?
Abusive behaviour is continuously around us, there are amazing people , great friends, and those we have lost.
I have given up hope that this shard if you like will ever recover it's ability to be decent, as those who are determined to bring it down continue to do so more and more every day.

A way through the EvE gate with different starting conditions and ground rules, is Probably CCP's only hope for a continuing business.

But enjoy, I will check in from year to year. i am just a single Player, going the way of many others.


The comments here and elsewhere pretty much unanimously condemned the extent to where Erotica1 took her humiliation project, and also her intention to cause mental suffering.

EVE is perhaps not really as you paint it to be, my personal experiences differ vastly from yours and I find the community rather mature, and players actually quite sharp. There are bad apples, don't get me wrong, but such is the nature of humans. It's easy to minimize their influence on your game, and at worst they only offer you with an opportunity to prove your mental superiority.



No there are lots of really good players, there is a scale of how annoyed they are with the douchbaggery that exists.
All the way from being a complete douchbag up to Enough unscribe me already, with most at the I can tolerate it a little longer stage.

I am not suggesting that EvE gets "cleaned up" or made dull and flavourless.
I am suggesting that there be a different EvE the other side of the EvE gate that offers a place where the positive values if eve are rewarded and emphasised. Still everything the same including PvP but cooperation and creation , are more important than the baser aspects of behaviour.


I don't really know, I find that positive things such as trust, co-operation, long-term planning and helping new members are prerequisites for success in EVE. All EVE communities are based on building together.

I also think that the greatest reward from causing something positive is fully internal and intangible, not something that the game mechanics should or even could provide- if you know you made someones day better, do you really need to get some abstract game points for it?

I've had the pleasure of meeting a sizeable amount of players during my time in EVE, and I have to say that none of them shared your sentiments about the amount of douchebaggery.




Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#89 - 2014-04-28 17:47:35 UTC
motie one wrote:
Let's all be honest here, a few ship skins and 3% damage on a mod is not going to keep this game alive. Why are people leaving, why are people not staying past their trial, and why are people fed up? Might be a good idea to solve those issues.


I bet there is a lot more psychos than white knights on internet for current Eve to be just fine.
In fact my theory is that those who don't last past trial leave because Eve is not edgy enough for their tastes.

Invalid signature format

motie one
Secret Passage
#90 - 2014-04-28 17:48:13 UTC
King Fu Hostile wrote:
motie one wrote:
King Fu Hostile wrote:
motie one wrote:
King Fu Hostile wrote:
Erotica1 was banned, and relevant rules updated.

I just disagree with your view that CCP or majority of the players would be tolerant of offensive or abusive behaviour in this game.


Did you read the forum thread discussing it, and how it was argued in exactly the same way just how acceptable and normal it was?
Abusive behaviour is continuously around us, there are amazing people , great friends, and those we have lost.
I have given up hope that this shard if you like will ever recover it's ability to be decent, as those who are determined to bring it down continue to do so more and more every day.

A way through the EvE gate with different starting conditions and ground rules, is Probably CCP's only hope for a continuing business.

But enjoy, I will check in from year to year. i am just a single Player, going the way of many others.


The comments here and elsewhere pretty much unanimously condemned the extent to where Erotica1 took her humiliation project, and also her intention to cause mental suffering.

EVE is perhaps not really as you paint it to be, my personal experiences differ vastly from yours and I find the community rather mature, and players actually quite sharp. There are bad apples, don't get me wrong, but such is the nature of humans. It's easy to minimize their influence on your game, and at worst they only offer you with an opportunity to prove your mental superiority.



No there are lots of really good players, there is a scale of how annoyed they are with the douchbaggery that exists.
All the way from being a complete douchbag up to Enough unscribe me already, with most at the I can tolerate it a little longer stage.

I am not suggesting that EvE gets "cleaned up" or made dull and flavourless.
I am suggesting that there be a different EvE the other side of the EvE gate that offers a place where the positive values if eve are rewarded and emphasised. Still everything the same including PvP but cooperation and creation , are more important than the baser aspects of behaviour.


I don't really know, I find that positive things such as trust, co-operation, long-term planning and helping new members are prerequisites for success in EVE. All EVE communities are based on building together.

I also think that the greatest reward from causing something positive is fully internal and intangible, not something that the game mechanics should or even could provide- if you know you made someones day better, do you really need to get some abstract game points for it?

I've had the pleasure of meeting a sizeable amount of players during my time in EVE, and I have to say that none of them shared your sentiments about the amount of douchebaggery.






I am really pleased, the issue is that the EvE experiment of the dystopian universe after the collapse of the EvE gate has run it's course, every day the issues become just more normal, something that would have raised real concerns a few years ago are normal to many. Unfortunately, not normal to all. Just eeeew.

There is another side to the EvE gate where such things may have gone a different way, you would clearly find something refreshing and good there, and would be able to travel between the two. Others would be locked into the dark EvE and feel at home here. choice. And Interest. And new things to discover without dealing with the unsavoury ones left behind. What is not to like? PvP would still take place, just not preying on others.

The only negative is that those who get their jollies out of suffering would bemoan the lack of victims.
Cekle Skyscales
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2014-04-28 17:49:14 UTC
Sure, as long as the only monetary support for that server cluster is provided by the people who play on it.

That way our EVE doesn't have its funding siphoned off, and if your EVE fails spectacularly, as it will, it won't affect us.

Sandbox the sandbox.
motie one
Secret Passage
#92 - 2014-04-28 17:52:20 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
motie one wrote:
Let's all be honest here, a few ship skins and 3% damage on a mod is not going to keep this game alive. Why are people leaving, why are people not staying past their trial, and why are people fed up? Might be a good idea to solve those issues.


I bet there is a lot more psychos than white knights on internet for current Eve to be just fine.
In fact my theory is that those who don't last past trial leave because Eve is not edgy enough for their tastes.


You could be right, or that they find the victims too hard without staying to learn for a while, tough kitty got ROTFstomped? By a carebear? So they are just lazy psychos? I do know someone in real life that exact situation and attitude applied to.

Or it could be that people go ewww, why would I pay to stay in that?

Of course some last long enough to find ways to avoid the unpleasant for a while but eventually have enough.
motie one
Secret Passage
#93 - 2014-04-28 17:54:46 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
Cekle Skyscales wrote:
Sure, as long as the only monetary support for that server cluster is provided by the people who play on it.

That way our EVE doesn't have its funding siphoned off, and if your EVE fails spectacularly, as it will, it won't affect us.

Sandbox the sandbox.



Sure, same servers mind and same code, just different accepted practices. We all play on the same server, and hey Gankers create all the content, so don't need CCP resources do they? (Joke)

Better to put the resources into something that benefits all of EvE A place for all players, than projects that bring nothing but wasted investment. Every player who leaves is a loss to us all.

The only difference between the two sides of the EvE gate is the starting concept, positive and cooperative against negative, order versus chaos and selfishness.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#94 - 2014-04-28 18:11:20 UTC
motie one wrote:
The only difference between the two sides of the EvE gate is the starting concept, positive and cooperative against negative, order versus chaos and selfishness.


I have no idea what Eve you installed but mine has plenty of cooperation, friendship and overall good hearted spirit.

Maybe you should hang around better people?

Invalid signature format

Bohneik Itohn
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#95 - 2014-04-28 18:28:14 UTC
Back in the day, long before Eve was even a concept, there was another game with very similar concepts.

Open sandbox world with a political and economic geography that could be controlled by the players.

Open PvP everywhere outside of the major trade areas. The players policed themselves.

Players were encouraged to pursue any playstyle they wished, whether it was saintly or sinful, greedy or generous.

A dynamic choice of professions where a player could do nothing but PvE, PvP or 100% manufacture, resource harvesting, or trade.

The game was lauded, given legendary status among gamers and enjoyed by the vast majority of people to try it. Just like any other massively multiplayer game, people came and went as their interest waxed and waned, or as they were called away by other more urgent issues. Life.

One day an expansion was released that had a significant impact on every other aspect of the game. Safe areas were introduced where players were forced to be nice to each other and not play in any manner they so pleased. This changed every players style of gameplay in huge ways unforeseen by the developers.

Ultima Online died within a few months after the release of that expansion. Hundreds of thousands of people continued to play the game afterwards, but only because there wasn't a better alternative. The majority of the players were highly upset about the changes the expansion made to how they experience the game while a niche few flourished in the new environment. The population trickled away at first, and then started to leave in droves as other MMO's were released. Ask anyone who was playing during the Renaissance expansion and they'll tell you the same thing I have.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.

motie one
Secret Passage
#96 - 2014-04-28 21:23:11 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
Back in the day, long before Eve was even a concept, there was another game with very similar concepts.

Open sandbox world with a political and economic geography that could be controlled by the players.

Open PvP everywhere outside of the major trade areas. The players policed themselves.

Players were encouraged to pursue any playstyle they wished, whether it was saintly or sinful, greedy or generous.

A dynamic choice of professions where a player could do nothing but PvE, PvP or 100% manufacture, resource harvesting, or trade.

The game was lauded, given legendary status among gamers and enjoyed by the vast majority of people to try it. Just like any other massively multiplayer game, people came and went as their interest waxed and waned, or as they were called away by other more urgent issues. Life.

One day an expansion was released that had a significant impact on every other aspect of the game. Safe areas were introduced where players were forced to be nice to each other and not play in any manner they so pleased. This changed every players style of gameplay in huge ways unforeseen by the developers.

Ultima Online died within a few months after the release of that expansion. Hundreds of thousands of people continued to play the game afterwards, but only because there wasn't a better alternative. The majority of the players were highly upset about the changes the expansion made to how they experience the game while a niche few flourished in the new environment. The population trickled away at first, and then started to leave in droves as other MMO's were released. Ask anyone who was playing during the Renaissance expansion and they'll tell you the same thing I have.



i was not there for that, but it was raised earlier, trammel i believe it was called, and apparently for three years after UO gained monthly increasing subscribers while retaining existing ones. The complainers it seems were the ones who enjoyed preying on people who did not want to be preyed on and they tried their damnedest, to flood Everything with that story, apparently they gave up PvP because there was no fun for them PvP ing with people who wanted toWhat?
it was very poor decisions later unrelated to this that led to it's demise.

But I was not there, just read on it today, but it seems that you are quoting the gankers story, not the players one. But you could be entirely right, who knows.
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#97 - 2014-04-28 21:30:16 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
motie one wrote:
The only difference between the two sides of the EvE gate is the starting concept, positive and cooperative against negative, order versus chaos and selfishness.


I have no idea what Eve you installed but mine has plenty of cooperation, friendship and overall good hearted spirit.

Maybe you should hang around better people?

Or stop carrying on with this moral indignation.
Might be if he stopped looking at his neighbors as scum they might treat him a little better.
motie one
Secret Passage
#98 - 2014-04-28 21:50:48 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
motie one wrote:
The only difference between the two sides of the EvE gate is the starting concept, positive and cooperative against negative, order versus chaos and selfishness.


I have no idea what Eve you installed but mine has plenty of cooperation, friendship and overall good hearted spirit.

Maybe you should hang around better people?

Or stop carrying on with this moral indignation.
Might be if he stopped looking at his neighbors as scum they might treat him a little better.



Good fences make for good neighbours. Sometimes one just wants to move to a better part of town......
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#99 - 2014-04-28 21:57:28 UTC

Problems with the proposed scenario:

Without nonconsensual wardecs, how do you remove POS's and POCO's from highsec locations?

Truth is, enough thought masturbation. This idea is not wanted by the majority of players. Non consensual PvP is a major part of EvE, and it is something all players need to accommodate for.
Astroniomix
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#100 - 2014-04-28 22:03:15 UTC
motie one wrote:
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
Back in the day, long before Eve was even a concept, there was another game with very similar concepts.

Open sandbox world with a political and economic geography that could be controlled by the players.

Open PvP everywhere outside of the major trade areas. The players policed themselves.

Players were encouraged to pursue any playstyle they wished, whether it was saintly or sinful, greedy or generous.

A dynamic choice of professions where a player could do nothing but PvE, PvP or 100% manufacture, resource harvesting, or trade.

The game was lauded, given legendary status among gamers and enjoyed by the vast majority of people to try it. Just like any other massively multiplayer game, people came and went as their interest waxed and waned, or as they were called away by other more urgent issues. Life.

One day an expansion was released that had a significant impact on every other aspect of the game. Safe areas were introduced where players were forced to be nice to each other and not play in any manner they so pleased. This changed every players style of gameplay in huge ways unforeseen by the developers.

Ultima Online died within a few months after the release of that expansion. Hundreds of thousands of people continued to play the game afterwards, but only because there wasn't a better alternative. The majority of the players were highly upset about the changes the expansion made to how they experience the game while a niche few flourished in the new environment. The population trickled away at first, and then started to leave in droves as other MMO's were released. Ask anyone who was playing during the Renaissance expansion and they'll tell you the same thing I have.



i was not there for that, but it was raised earlier, trammel i believe it was called, and apparently for three years after UO gained monthly increasing subscribers while retaining existing ones. The complainers it seems were the ones who enjoyed preying on people who did not want to be preyed on and they tried their damnedest, to flood Everything with that story, apparently they gave up PvP because there was no fun for them PvP ing with people who wanted toWhat?
it was very poor decisions later unrelated to this that led to it's demise.

But I was not there, just read on it today, but it seems that you are quoting the gankers story, not the players one. But you could be entirely right, who knows.

Bohneik isn't entierly wrong. Renaissance wasn't a TOTAL disaster. But the PvP map was almost always barren. (trammel only prevented non-consentual PvP so people not looking to gank still had no reason to go to felucca) Pretty much the only people who went to felucca were people that already had houses there.

UO didn't die after Renaissance, but it didn't do much growing either, it bled off a few thousand players and then the player count hasn't really moved since, the only thing EA ever says about it is that it's still "profitable" which isn't surprising considering how it's servers cost almost nothing to run.