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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#1521 - 2014-04-28 18:20:13 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:


hmm I almost agree with you vis-a-vis damage projection, but there is no sentry range bonus so that projected damage looks limited to missiles. Waiting for combat drones to arrive cannot reasonably be classified as "projecting damage".


Nah, the sentries will be fine without a range bonus. If anything the missiles will be the problem on the fleet scale.


Its not sentries that need a range bonus. Get away from Gards and they all hit well outside Drone Control Range. Its DCR that needs the bonus, or a logical change in the mechanics that let drones attack anything they want as long as the drones are incide the control range. Its pretty weird given sentry stats that the target must be as well.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1522 - 2014-04-28 18:26:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
OK, I can't get over this Gecko. Has anyone else checked out the stats? 128 hp damage (32 EM, 32 explosive, 32 kinetic and 32 thermal) with a 2.05x damage modifier. As in 2.66x more damage than an Ogre II.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
motie one
Secret Passage
#1523 - 2014-04-28 19:07:57 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Wow, Gecko! Quick comparison: 1820m/sec velocity, 2.05x damage modifier, 0.53 rad/sec tracking and about 25% more hit points than a Federation Navy Ogre. Screw sentries - I'm loving the Snake! The inscription of "ED-209" is hilarious! Now if we can just do something about that infernal launcher symmetry...


If that is real, there is the missing rattlesnake super drone.
I thought it should have been a flight of 4 Gila class super drones, But that will do nicely.Big smile

Edit oh 50m3 so only one, ah, no then, nice to have but no replacement for a flight of Gila superdrones on the ship.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1524 - 2014-04-28 19:12:02 UTC
motie one wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Wow, Gecko! Quick comparison: 1820m/sec velocity, 2.05x damage modifier, 0.53 rad/sec tracking and about 25% more hit points than a Federation Navy Ogre. Screw sentries - I'm loving the Snake! The inscription of "ED-209" is hilarious! Now if we can just do something about that infernal launcher symmetry...


If that is real, there is the missing rattlesnake super drone.
I thought it should have been a flight of 4 Gila class super drones, But that will do nicely.Big smile

Don't forget the damage: 32 to each of EM, Explosive, Kinetic and Thermal. Now it's just a question of how much ISK it's going to set us back...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
stoicfaux
#1525 - 2014-04-28 19:15:41 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
OK, I can't get over this Gecko. Has anyone else checked out the stats? 128 hp damage (32 EM, 32 explosive, 32 kinetic and 32 thermal) with a 2.05x damage modifier. As in 2.66x more damage than an Ogre II.

Gecko also uses 50Mbit of bandwith and 50m^3 of bay space, i.e. it's "two" heavy drones.

Gecko does (32 * 4) * 2.05 = 262 damage, whereas an Ogre II will do 64 * 1.92 * 1.08 (drone specialization) = 132.7 * 2 drones = 265 damage.

However, the Gecko goes 1,820 m/s versus the summer Ogre's 1,200 m/s and with a tracking of 0.53 versus 0.36.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1526 - 2014-04-28 19:23:02 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Gecko also uses 50Mbit of bandwith and 50m^3 of bay space, i.e. it's "two" heavy drones.

Gecko does (32 * 4) * 2.05 = 262 damage, whereas an Ogre II will do 64 * 1.92 * 1.08 (drone specialization) = 132.7 * 2 drones = 265 damage.

However, the Gecko goes 1,820 m/s versus the summer Ogre's 1,200 m/s and with a tracking of 0.53 versus 0.36.

All valid points. But it's still cool. Lol

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Joe Boirele
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1527 - 2014-04-28 19:59:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Boirele
Honestly, I don't get why some are making a big deal out of the velocity bonus. I run missions just fine with un-velocity bonused RHMLs, and I'm happy they'll be getting a damage bonus.

Enemies are just friends who stab you in the front.

"We will not go quietly into the night! We will not vanish without a fight!"
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1528 - 2014-04-28 20:11:44 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Gecko also uses 50Mbit of bandwith and 50m^3 of bay space, i.e. it's "two" heavy drones.

Gecko does (32 * 4) * 2.05 = 262 damage, whereas an Ogre II will do 64 * 1.92 * 1.08 (drone specialization) = 132.7 * 2 drones = 265 damage.

However, the Gecko goes 1,820 m/s versus the summer Ogre's 1,200 m/s and with a tracking of 0.53 versus 0.36.

All valid points. But it's still cool. Lol


Except in skirmish pvp all you have to do is web it and then keep out of its range.

...the law of unintended consequences again.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1529 - 2014-04-28 20:25:42 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Except in skirmish pvp all you have to do is web it and then keep out of its range. ...the law of unintended consequences again.

It could be worse... I could be in a Nestor. Lol

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1530 - 2014-04-28 20:32:11 UTC
Backtracking a bit to the N-Domi vs RS comparison, if torps were made worthwhile, that would tip the raw DPS in a viable fit towards the RS assuming rage torps got some damage application help to make them more widely viable.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1531 - 2014-04-28 20:34:33 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Backtracking a bit to the N-Domi vs RS comparison, if torps were made worthwhile, that would tip the raw DPS in a viable fit towards the RS assuming rage torps got some damage application help to make them more widely viable.

What would torpedoes need to make them "worthwhile"?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1532 - 2014-04-28 20:39:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Backtracking a bit to the N-Domi vs RS comparison, if torps were made worthwhile, that would tip the raw DPS in a viable fit towards the RS assuming rage torps got some damage application help to make them more widely viable.

What would torpedoes need to make them "worthwhile"?

Dunno for certain. I won't claim to be an expert, but in a group with TP support I'd think possibly only think a buff to explosion velocity.

Also, for this exercise I'm not considering range an issue because the 1.8k DPS N-Domi that was brought up earlier has all of about 20km effective range as well before dropping a significant amount of that damage to Falloff or lower damage ammo.
KaDa en Bauldry
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1533 - 2014-04-28 20:53:54 UTC
Sure, in a group with a Golem, missiles become an entirely different beast.

One problem:
In a group, you can't count missiles.
Instant application of damage becomes even more valuable.
And what's more instant, than a herd of Mighty Potatoes.
Now up to 10 in a fleet.

Don't forget about ship insurance before undocking. Don't forget about copy-paste saving before posting.
stoicfaux
#1534 - 2014-04-28 20:58:26 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Backtracking a bit to the N-Domi vs RS comparison, if torps were made worthwhile, that would tip the raw DPS in a viable fit towards the RS assuming rage torps got some damage application help to make them more widely viable.

What would torpedoes need to make them "worthwhile"?

Pfffffffffffft.
1) Range: missile speed bonus/rigs.
2) Application: rigor rigs[1], bonused TPs, missile explosion radius hull bonus (probably two of them,) long range webs, MWD bloom
3) Nerf to cruise missiles.


[1] but you're already using missile speed/flight time rigs
[2] but then people wouldn't use either missile system

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
KaDa en Bauldry
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1535 - 2014-04-28 21:00:11 UTC
And if you are sniping over 100km with the new snake, you are losing your drone damage or 1/5th of your missile damage.
Heck over 110km you lose your drone damage even with the old one.

Converting a utility high into a launcher and cutting down the missile range adding damage instead, doing both at the same time was a smart move.

Don't forget about ship insurance before undocking. Don't forget about copy-paste saving before posting.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1536 - 2014-04-28 21:00:49 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Backtracking a bit to the N-Domi vs RS comparison, if torps were made worthwhile, that would tip the raw DPS in a viable fit towards the RS assuming rage torps got some damage application help to make them more widely viable.


I agree with you, "balance tipped" between a navy ship and a pirate ship i would argue is not enough.

A vindicator is much more deadly than a navy mega
a bhaalgorn is much more deadly than a navy geddon (at least at close quarters)
a machariel is much more deadly than... anything else at range.
a rattlesnake could be a little better than... a navy domi

It needs to a be much more deadly than a navy domi or navy raven.

I argue that for this reason it needs something more than mere dps. Dps can be easily countered with logistics. What makes the other ships special is:

machariel - I can't catch it or get away from its damage projection.
vindicator - if it get within 18km of me (OH navy webs), I will leave this fight either in victory ort in a pod. Evasion is not possible. I am not safe in a HAC or frigate.
bhaalgorn - it it gets within 30km of me I can't move, shoot or light up my hardeners or DC.
nightmare - it's a bit slippery for a battleship (meh...)
rattlesnake - oh look, a nice bauble to hang on my killboard!

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1537 - 2014-04-28 21:11:16 UTC
Has there been an announce date for the Summer 2014 expansion?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1538 - 2014-04-28 21:11:41 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Has there been an announce date for the Summer 2014 expansion?

Betting we'll get that at FF
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1539 - 2014-04-28 21:15:40 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Backtracking a bit to the N-Domi vs RS comparison, if torps were made worthwhile, that would tip the raw DPS in a viable fit towards the RS assuming rage torps got some damage application help to make them more widely viable.


I agree with you, "balance tipped" between a navy ship and a pirate ship i would argue is not enough.

A vindicator is much more deadly than a navy mega
a bhaalgorn is much more deadly than a navy geddon (at least at close quarters)
a machariel is much more deadly than... anything else at range.
a rattlesnake could be a little better than... a navy domi

It needs to a be much more deadly than a navy domi or navy raven.

I argue that for this reason it needs something more than mere dps. Dps can be easily countered with logistics. What makes the other ships special is:

machariel - I can't catch it or get away from its damage projection.
vindicator - if it get within 18km of me (OH navy webs), I will leave this fight either in victory ort in a pod. Evasion is not possible. I am not safe in a HAC or frigate.
bhaalgorn - it it gets within 30km of me I can't move, shoot or light up my hardeners or DC.
nightmare - it's a bit slippery for a battleship (meh...)
rattlesnake - oh look, a nice bauble to hang on my killboard!
I can't disagree that the RS still feels like it's lacking that special something, but at the same time I don't think turning it from what it is to something one simply does not engage without a friendly falcon or 3 is a good idea.
motie one
Secret Passage
#1540 - 2014-04-28 21:33:53 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Gecko also uses 50Mbit of bandwith and 50m^3 of bay space, i.e. it's "two" heavy drones.

Gecko does (32 * 4) * 2.05 = 262 damage, whereas an Ogre II will do 64 * 1.92 * 1.08 (drone specialization) = 132.7 * 2 drones = 265 damage.

However, the Gecko goes 1,820 m/s versus the summer Ogre's 1,200 m/s and with a tracking of 0.53 versus 0.36.


All valid points. But it's still cool. Lol

So a heavy that can reach out and touch, and actually apply damage?
And I now definitely, want any ship that can field them, choice of flying one of those or fielding 5 gila type medium superdrones according to need. Sold!

Sentries? On the new rattler, with proper superdrones? wheels on a fish.