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So pod kills, in secure space, are just bullying, are not they?

First post
Author
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#141 - 2014-04-24 00:20:44 UTC
I don't care about reship time and this tactics things, whatever.. I am just curious what's inside the egg
Disastro
Wrecking Shots
#142 - 2014-04-24 00:37:59 UTC
Nhanderu Mbaekuaa wrote:
Or perhaps I'd say bullying and bragging, but I am not sure if they are different things. Let's stick with bullying. Ok, it is done to everyone, so it is not serious bullying; it is not the usual situation where a gang concentrates all the mocking and pressure in one or two newbies selected at random from the new flock. It is probably closer to peer-presure in scientific-technical communities, or even to a fraternity initiation ritual. Not that I like the guys at Skulls and Bones.

Usual arguments for this generic kill are:

- "I can". Everything told, here.
- "silent them". Er??? Pirate-wise, it increases the visibility of the system in the map. By killing the pod, you get it silenced in local... and a big danger mark in the global map, telling everyone to carry more force, or more caution, where crossing your system.
-"raise the price of implants". Ok if you manufacture them, but otherwise?
-"as real life". It is fascinating how many people in EVE seem to play from favelas in Brasil suburbia. Wait, I have been there and I have never been killed inside of the pod.
-"trophy" That could have sense, because in the killboards a hi-sec pod killing is, arguably, scored same that a battle-situation low sec.


What I am a bit surprised is that the times this topic emerges in the forum, people does not like to look at the ritual/etnological side of the issue. I'd like to heard about it. Does it build community? Does it correct some problem in the game, by hardeninng the players?



This is a pvp game. Every aspect about it is about pvp. Even the limited security of living in high sec does not make you immune from pvp in this game. No one is guaranteed safety anywhere in eve. Granted. You could never undock. Then you would never be at risk.

As for pods. Pods are something with value. They have implants. They hold skills. Naturally they are a target for pvp. Why would they not be?
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#143 - 2014-04-24 00:47:55 UTC
Before implants showed up in pod kills one might make the argument that pod killing was bullying. Now you can get some pretty nice kills. I've seen a cheap T1 fitted frigate kill lead to a billion ISK pod kill.

One of my favorite memories as a child was opening up Christmas presents and seeing what I got. Killing a pod is like opening up a present. You might get an empty box or something really awesome.
Trevor Dalech
Nobody in Local
Deepwater Hooligans
#144 - 2014-04-24 03:09:51 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:


Does podding someone present a beneficial circumstance that did not exist before? No. It does not.

Yes it does, aside from any possible bounty it removes one potential hostile from local. If you leave the pod alive they might be able to reship in system, kill the pod and they'll have to travel first, and you will notice them showing up again.

Quote:

Does it create a circumstance that can be seen as humiliating on a certain level? Yes. It does.

Indeed it does, getting your pod caught in high sec is humiliating. You just humiliated yourself for doing such a thing. Don't shift the blame to the guy that actually pulled the trigger, he is completely innocent in this matter.

Quote:

Is a person in a pod helpless to defend against being podded (aside from the slim chance of escape)? Yes. Undeniably.

The chance of escape is not slim, it's a near certainty. There are no bubbles in high sec, and smart bombing ships are rather rare in high sec as far as I know (do they even work?)
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#145 - 2014-04-24 03:15:49 UTC
Trevor Dalech wrote:
The chance of escape is not slim, it's a near certainty. There are no bubbles in high sec, and smart bombing ships are rather rare in high sec as far as I know (do they even work?)

Yep, safety to red and smart bomb away.

Frequently followed by Concord when you hit an unintended target.
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#146 - 2014-04-24 04:51:07 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
I don't care about reship time and this tactics things, whatever.. I am just curious what's inside the egg


"Its the pod I'm after. The ship is just a pod condom." -- Turgesson after me asking him why he killed my 40mil pod when ganking me.

I used to have some pitty, but after a years worth of listening to the people with the most protection in this game (hisecers) whine about being violenced, I now feel the same way as Turgesson.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#147 - 2014-04-24 07:23:42 UTC
How is this discussion still going on? Yes, killing pods is bullying if either your target or a passing CSM member is sad about it, and making up reasons won't make those people less sad.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#148 - 2014-04-24 07:46:21 UTC
Pod kills are fair play anywhere. Even carebunnies know that. I don't like to pvp but I expect it anytime I undock, so I fly ships properly fitted and don't do silly things (normally). Fly what you can afford to lose, and if you lose it and your pod don't take it personally, it is just a game and the risk is what makes it slightly more fun.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#149 - 2014-04-24 08:43:05 UTC
Nhanderu Mbaekuaa wrote:
What I am a bit surprised is that the times this topic emerges in the forum, people does not like to look at the ritual/etnological side of the issue. I'd like to heard about it. Does it build community? Does it correct some problem in the game, by hardeninng the players?

Does it build community? WTF? Are you stoned?

By the way, yes it hardens players, but most importanty killing a pod on your grid while you are yellow flashy prevents their friends from warping on the pod to return fire. You are welcome.
Solecist Project
#150 - 2014-04-24 09:08:02 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
I don't care about reship time and this tactics things, whatever.. I am just curious what's inside the egg


"Its the pod I'm after. The ship is just a pod condom." -- Turgesson after me asking him why he killed my 40mil pod when ganking me.

I used to have some pitty, but after a years worth of listening to the people with the most protection in this game (hisecers) whine about being violenced, I now feel the same way as Turgesson.

Pod condom.... that's a new one for me.

5h sleep.
Need coffee.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#151 - 2014-04-24 09:52:21 UTC
Bunnie Hop wrote:
Pod kills are fair play anywhere. Even carebunnies know that. I don't like to pvp but I expect it anytime I undock, so I fly ships properly fitted and don't do silly things (normally). Fly what you can afford to lose, and if you lose it and your pod don't take it personally, it is just a game and the risk is what makes it slightly more fun.
Ask Miichael Epic about that one. According to him, it's not right to shoot an industrial ship outside of an explicit wardec, so a pod would be way off limits.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#152 - 2014-04-24 09:52:48 UTC
Nhanderu Mbaekuaa wrote:
Or perhaps I'd say bullying and bragging, but I am not sure if they are different things. Let's stick with bullying. Ok, it is done to everyone, so it is not serious bullying; it is not the usual situation where a gang concentrates all the mocking and pressure in one or two newbies selected at random from the new flock. It is probably closer to peer-presure in scientific-technical communities, or even to a fraternity initiation ritual. Not that I like the guys at Skulls and Bones.

Usual arguments for this generic kill are:

- "I can". Everything told, here.
- "silent them". Er??? Pirate-wise, it increases the visibility of the system in the map. By killing the pod, you get it silenced in local... and a big danger mark in the global map, telling everyone to carry more force, or more caution, where crossing your system.
-"raise the price of implants". Ok if you manufacture them, but otherwise?
-"as real life". It is fascinating how many people in EVE seem to play from favelas in Brasil suburbia. Wait, I have been there and I have never been killed inside of the pod.
-"trophy" That could have sense, because in the killboards a hi-sec pod killing is, arguably, scored same that a battle-situation low sec.


What I am a bit surprised is that the times this topic emerges in the forum, people does not like to look at the ritual/etnological side of the issue. I'd like to heard about it. Does it build community? Does it correct some problem in the game, by hardeninng the players?


You, my friend, are an immortal capsuleer. Why should you care that pods of immortal beings such as yourself are blown up? I personally reserve my pity for the crewmembers that get killed, but those aren't in your pod now, aren't they? They are either saved or dead by then.

Killing the pod if possible should be done always, just so the poor, almost invisible crews of normal humans aren't the only ones suffering.

Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#153 - 2014-04-24 10:00:35 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
It's also economically a good idea to kill pods, because you diminish the assets and perhaps morale of a group that isn't yours. Power and wealth are relative. If you feel confident the consequences of the killright you recieve are worth a podkill, sec stat drops will hardly stop people. Sec stat gains are a side effect of PVE anyway.

Probably less their resources than yours, since you'll want tags to repair your sec status. Unless you are one of those "the dog tags i loot are free" hippies.

/蘭


You didn't get the point I'm afraid. With a side-effecf of PVE I mean normal sec gains and the fact one cannot go below -10 makes sec status a very controllable problem with fixed barriers. Apart from that killing a pod does not always come with a sec drop. Remember it is entirely legal (CONCORD-wise) to kill a pod from someone with whom you have a Limited Engagement. If you are flashy and get attacked by someone, you can defend yourself and kill this pilots pod with impunity. There als also wardecs and other mechanics allowing for COCORD-sanctioned pod slaughter.

Hence "you'll want tags to repair your sec status" is a false assumption. I sell most of the tags I obtain.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#154 - 2014-04-24 13:03:09 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
Okay can someone tell me how is killing a pod different than killing a ship?

Both have ISK value that show up on the killboards. Often pods have a higher ISK value than the ship they were in.

Pods can't shoot back but neither can some ships... Arguing industrial ships can fit one small gun is just silly and T2 cloaky haulers don't even get that.

Eve is a PVP game where players destroy each others items. People sometimes get upset when these items are destroyed but I don't see how losing a pod would be more upsetting than losing a ship.



Also Eve is about choices
First you choose what you want to risk. I can put a full Crystal set in my pod, I can put 2 +3 learning implants, or I can leave it empty. The same goes for a ship. I can fly a T2 fitted Raven or I can fly a Navy Raven fitted with a few faction/ deadspace mods or I can fly a fully officer fitted Golem.

Second you choose how much risk you want to take. You can fly my ship in a quiet highsec system with few in local. You can go to a more crowded highsec system that may have better agents. You can jump into lowsec with or without a scout (Another choice). You can use D scan while in missions and stay alert or just watch Netflix while my Eve is minimized and not be alert... etc etc.

Third you choose what to do when you engage danger. You just jumped into lowsc with a Navy Raven and there's a Hurricane at the gate! You can attack, burn back to gate or warp to a celestial then back at zero. Sometimes you lose the ship no matter what because 10 of his friends warped in. (What a bully right!)... Then you can chose to warp your pod somewhere like the sun, sit there in your pod upset that your shiny ship just went boom, or try to jump through the gate while your session timer is going. Hint: Only one of those will involve you not being podded.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#155 - 2014-04-24 13:06:00 UTC
There is no secure space.