EVE General Discussion

DISCLAIMER: This may have already been said, but I can't be bothered to read through the rest of the thread since my eyes hurt for some reason.

In any case, I believe a large percentage of the dislike for newer players is due to the fact that many new players just don't "get" EVE. After venturing into lowsec and getting shot, getting can-flipped in highsec, and similar occurrences, many end up coming to the forums and insisting that non-consentual PvP is wrong and shouldn't be allowed. A large quantity of rage usually accompanies such statements, along with insults to the existing player-base.

The existing players, naturally, don't want the game to be turned into WoW in space, so they verbally dog-pile on top of people expressing such sentiments. Being human, this dislike of the new players who don't "get" EVE transfers to other new players as well. While this is regrettable and, in fact, stupid, it's also human nature.

I think part of your problem is your misjuging eve pvp by your preconseptions, there really is not much of a gear grind in eve, tech 2 gear is easy to pick up once you can use it.

Also as has been pointed out the wormhole exam[ple the pilots don't know who you are or if you are a new pilot or a alt scout, lowsec gate ganks? you would be amazed at the stuff people try and fly around in cheap ships (no I am not a low sec pirate).

As I have been accused of being a bitter vet more than once (generally i dislike answering the same damm question time after time) or having to argue why a fitting is basicly crap or point out that flying that peticular ship is bad idea or even why bigger is not always better or don't fly one ship you have all of your money tied up in...know it all new players are a pain in the arse sometimes.

On the other hand i am quite happy to pass on ships i don't fly anymore to newbies that don't annoy the crap out of me or have stopped annoying crap out of me.

This whole "vets hate new people" thing is wrong. Taking losses early on whether through ganking, scamming, or just hitting the wrong gate teaches new players how EVE works. If they're fine with that, they'll stay and perhaps even start some carnage and mayhem of their own.

Really, whenever you hear about a big ragequit, it's a from a vet player who's fed up with trying to avoid PVP and failing at it.

An example: both me and a friend went to EVE from WoW at two separate times. We both got killed in lowsec because we had no clue about basic mechanics or even how to use a D-scanner. I stayed in the game, he left. I lost over a dozen ships to pwnmobiles and blobs I had no hope of beating while my friend ragequit after his first loss.

Where were we different? The ships I lost were all basic t1-fit frigates and they happened within my first week. It took less than half an hour to replace all of them.

My friend lost his first BS that he'd been saving up/training for over the course of a month. He took it into a belt in a system he'd "scouted out in advance", probably just by watching local, wanting to get the feel of it. Now, by this point I didn't know about safe-spots, d-scan or even paying attention to local, but I sure as hell wouldn't have taken a BS into lowsec solo just because I knew how quickly people could be on you.

I was annoyed at getting killed, but I knew it was no huge issue and I'd be back on my feet easily. I eventually gave up on ratting/mining altogether and just started flying around in a slasher looting the wrecks of the l33t pvpers and made at least 15 million isk in an hour that way, more than enough to cover my losses. My friend never learned this lesson and quit.

If anything, PVP is too uncommon in EVE, otherwise people wouldn't be so utterly destroyed when they get, well, destroyed.

I have found that the harshest part of eve -- and the eve community -- are the forums. If you can survive in General Discussion you can survive anywhere.

Most eve players do not go on the forums.

I would advise you to find a like-minded corporation that does what you like. Because eve permits evil with real consequences, it allows me to better avoid some people... people who like to use their spare time/game time to push around noobs and make them quit eve for example... so that i don't end up playing with them. Sure they come and can flip people i do play with, but by doing so they show their true colors and i can avoid them. (I have found this is impossible if you want to play in 0.0, but the dynamics there are different)

I personally find eve less harsh than WoW in this regard, as in WoW i could not go anywhere without a 12 year old harassing me trying to start a fight. Here there are consequences to such behavior, so it happens far less often.

It is true however you cannot avoid pvp and play eve fully... at some time you will be faced with joining a fight or deserting people you care about... I know of only one player that's managed to avoid pvp and remain social... you can however avoid pvp most of the time if that is your wish. And if it is, eve offers a very complex economy and manufacturing to explore.

I have played EVE "solo" for more than eight years now and have no plans of changing that.

To me, avoiding PvP is PVP. My most memorable experiences have all been in low sec where I have dodged this and that group of pirates while doing exploration, gas harvesting or missions. I would not say EVE has a hostile environment but it certainly is competitive. And it is that competition I immediately miss when I try out other MMOs and their selling point of "everybody is a hero/winner".

Fair enough, but happens when more players are leaving then joining?

Its all well and good saying if you dont like Eve the way it is then play another game but when you are losing more players then gaining then something has to change in order to attract new players to keep the game alive.

It is a very hard balancing act to keep the the current player base happy but to make enough small changes that encourage those who are trying the game for the first time to stay the coruse.

You could say that over the last 12 months this is something that CCP are failing to do.

However, meanies aside, if youre mining an youre having major issues with ppl can flipping you
ur doin it wrong

I say that withe this advice:

Go somewhere people are not. Dotlan is a great way to find this out, as is the in game map. I wont give system examples as that would be counterproductive. I have maybe been can flipped 5 times in the time Ive been playing. Thats since '07.
How? I go places other people are not at and mine. Dead ens systems without stations for example. Or systems without stations at all for that matter.

Its odd how the 0.0 ppl seem to want exactly this with all their talk of 0.0 being "end game".
Just cause its "end game" for them doesnt mean it is for me

Fear.
You got to understand that there are alot of kids who play EVE.
They are still afraid of there own shadows what makes you think they won't be afraid of you.

Repressed anger.
There are alot of people in this game who could use some therapy, and they tend to take it out on whoever they can.
Not much can be said about them, maybe someday they will get it.

The rest of the Vets
We are around and we help if you run into us, or get killed by us.
There are even some organizations around to help new pilots out.
We don't resent new players in fact we actually like seeing new players.

While OP *might* be onto something I think he is mostly wrong. EVE is harsh and people on here can be A-holes. That being said alot of the troubles you've had can and are avoided by n00bs who pay attention. I've never been ganked, I've never been can flipped, I've lost ships, but only ever in W-space and frankly thats the risk you take living there. I've been in Null and LS and I've squeaked past campers and pirates. I've done all of this becuase I studied up on the game before I started playing and I was fortunate enough to hook up with a solid Corp who repays loyalty with loyalty. The learning curve in EVE is *not* that steep and the A-holes aren't that omnipresent.

Ganking is a losing game if you carebear correct. Can flipping only works if you're dumb enough to jetcan alone. My advice, don't fly around with a hold full of goodies if you can't defend it or run from the gankers trying to take it. (Stay out of Jita until you get your big boy pants.) Frankly I NEVER go to Jita becuase its a ****-parade there. Also, if you really must jetcan, do it in secure cans, yes it takes longer but if you use secure cans in series in a HS belt you can move from can to can until you fill them all then go to the station get your hauler and go pick up your ORE. Rinse and Repeat. If you're mining in anything smaller then a Retreiver (10d to train BTW) you're wasting your time and you should be missioning. When missioning you should have no trouble in L1 and L2 missions with Ninjas there is no money in it for them but plenty in it for you.

Finally, the Pirates and Griefers go where the targets are, so know where that is and don't go there. This works for missioing and mining both. My "spots" for both activities when I started were backwaters. When I chill in HS its in Amarr space becuase thats where the A-holes aren't in such big numbers. Heck I think the A-holes go to Amarr space to get a break from the other A-holes.

Just my opinions but hopefully this helps.