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Bounty System Replacement
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Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#1 - 2011-12-01 22:16:56 UTC
The bounty system is dead due to exploitability. It needs to be replaced.

I suggest a full replacement of the existing bounty system with a "bounty by contract" system. This would be player driven and moderated just like the current contract system for trades. This will not be scam or exploitation proof- but it will be under control of the the players, just like the market, so buyer beware.

Specifically, to place a bounty, you put up a contract with certain requirements. Destruction of ship, destruction of pod, etc. The fee goes into escrow. A bounty hunter then bids their collateral for that contract- and the contract issuer chooses which hunter to accept. This puts the burden of preventing exploitation on the bounty issuer, by forcing them to do their research, dig into in-game contacts, etc, and find out who's a legitimate hunter and who's just collecting the fee on their own head. This would create a market for bounty hunters, even bounty hunting corps, force them to uphold a certain reputation (or skirt the seedier side and hope they don't get caught), and leave the regulation of the system in the players hands the way that EVE should.

There ya go. Tear it apart.

Overhaul Dscan!
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
#2 - 2011-12-02 00:34:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Misanthra
0.0 guy has fun on his empire clone skill inject cycle.

You bounty him

Pick a hunter while guy is still showing up as in empire

guy jc backs to.....delve/fountain/venal,stain/etc

bounty hunter not blue to there says screw it. between low sec piewat camps to get to 0.0, the 0.0 bubble camps and the fact the mark will be with freinds most likely if htey made it that far its just not cost effective for the attempt. Bounty goes unclaimed most likely. Even better, 0.0 cannot put in for tis contract. they'd have to JC back since contracts are regional. 1-2 nights of ratting or real pvp lost...you best chance at killing this guy jsut has no interest. Chance at havens or ..jc to empire for a 25 mil bounty? Hmm, hard choice.

this also appiles to low sec. you could be the gankers last few empire kills before the empire ban. Hunter gets contract...sees the mark is now in tama or other fun pirate systems. Might not be so keen for the kill now.


or....


different tz.

I am oceanic tz. Wife and kid gone Saturday morning (US tz prime time) and I might hop on. I decdie to try a gank (I want to shoot crap, low or 0.0 where I go). You place contract, pick a US based hunter. he might see me next saturday. Might...Doesn't do alarm clock ops, has a job/school and during the week we shall never cross paths. And if not a family type yet let me tell you....that next saturday real iffy. end resutl, yet another contract that will not be completed.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#3 - 2011-12-02 02:22:27 UTC
Reasonable points. However, I don't see them as significantly different then the scam issues that are possible with trade contracts. Also, the hunter can limit their risk because they bid their own collateral. If they don't want to engage a 0.0 target, or want to minimize risk, keep their bid low.

Overhaul Dscan!
Steveir
Hagukure
#4 - 2011-12-02 04:17:57 UTC
I like the idea. I worte a long post but the hamster has eaten it :(
In a nutshell

Money in escrow until kill approved by bounty placer.

You would need a feedback/rating system (like Ebay) to rate Bounty placers and those offering to collect (kill) for you.

Sec status could be used as to whether the player (with the bounty) could be killed in Hi Sec.

A limitation on bounties similar to Wardec could be used (to give the player a chance to respond before the bounty goes live).

A tax rate on the player would exist, increasing with the number of bounties placed. So after nine bountes (for example) the bounty hunter would only get 10% of the bounty placed. Obvously, if a typical kill was 100 Mill then I'm now having to pay a Billion to get that hit. The rate would drop back down again over time.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#5 - 2011-12-02 16:43:38 UTC
Daily bump to front page.

Overhaul Dscan!
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2011-12-02 16:55:59 UTC
Supported.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#7 - 2011-12-03 19:36:47 UTC
One more daily bump.

The bounty system is SOOO BAD that noone even cares enough to discuss it! This could be part of making lowsec more interesting and getting more people out there after all.

Overhaul Dscan!
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#8 - 2011-12-03 19:55:14 UTC
see my sig.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#9 - 2011-12-03 19:58:36 UTC
Good thoughts. Doesn't put the system into the hands of the players though, which is far more EVE-like.

Overhaul Dscan!
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#10 - 2011-12-03 20:44:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
i like your system, the issue i see however is that its still wild west style. It assumes that killing sombody hurts. However in eve it only hurts if you loose something. If you fly a T1 frig and get shot by a hunter to get rid of your bounty doesn't hurt and sets you free.

so your contract would have to include things like: "only valid if in carrier or t3 or in a clone worth more than 100mil... etc"
Thats not as accessible as it could be IMO and also somewhat avoidable... but i would still support it since its better as the current one, however i would prefere the multikill proposal (see below) if possible which is even more eve style IMO.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Ai Shun
#11 - 2011-12-29 10:37:49 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
Specifically, to place a bounty, you put up a contract with certain requirements. Destruction of ship, destruction of pod, etc. The fee goes into escrow. A bounty hunter then bids their collateral for that contract- and the contract issuer chooses which hunter to accept. This puts the burden of preventing exploitation on the bounty issuer, by forcing them to do their research, dig into in-game contacts, etc, and find out who's a legitimate hunter and who's just collecting the fee on their own head.


Allow them to pick multiple hunters; or to black-list certain hunters if they so choose. Or create an open contract acceptable by everyone. That leaves it in the hands of the players and also means you can open it to more than just one person after they've bid. (Makes it more likely to get that vengeance)

I like the idea of putting a value on the loss as well. E.g. bounty is open until ISK 100,000,000 is reached or until ISK 10,000 is reached, etc.
Sebastion Heorod
Hellion Support Services
#12 - 2011-12-29 21:17:07 UTC
How about instead of creating a whole new bounty system you have the bounty tied to the value of the pod kill. Since we now get the value of the pod in the kill mail it should be possible to make it so that when you want to put a bounty on a player then that amount is the maximum amount you will pay to the pods killer. Then when someone kills the pod the game calculates the value of the clone and the implants and pays out that amount up to the maximum bounty you placed. Something similar could also be done with ship insurance.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#13 - 2011-12-29 23:15:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ines Tegator
Because having an open contract system creates a whole new social dynamic and adds a lot to the game (or so I imagine it, if it's done well). Mechanically giving bounties to killmails is boring, exploitable, and unfulfilling. Imagine a New Eden where money buys revenge, reputation matters, dedicated hunters or whole corps can build "white knight" or mercenary communities. As well, the more savvy of the pirates can use it against their enemies or exploit it to their own ends. As an open contract system, it is buyer beware, just like the rest of EVE. It adds a new level of play and, more importantly, social interaction to empire space.

What the discussion needs is more specific details. I think bidding your own collateral, and contract issuer accepting contract bidders are key; other than that, there's a lot of detail that needs fleshed out to be a real idea. Who can place bounties, contract fulfillment conditions, effect of sec status, effect on kill rights, etc etc.

Overhaul Dscan!
Sebastion Heorod
Hellion Support Services
#14 - 2011-12-30 03:19:31 UTC
The point of a bounty is that anyone can get it, what you are looking for is a formalized system for assassinations.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#15 - 2011-12-30 05:22:25 UTC
Sebastion Heorod wrote:
The point of a bounty is that anyone can get it, what you are looking for is a formalized system for assassinations.

Bingo.

As to whether that's the point or not, that's really up to whoever makes the rules, isn't it? The question is, which way is more fun. The more involved, the more social, the better imo.

Overhaul Dscan!
Rawls Canardly
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-12-30 05:58:32 UTC
I'd much prefer a bounty- hunter registry, where you pay a nominal fee for a Bounty License, a sort of one-way wardec, making anyone with a bounty shootable to you. Naturally, the bounties couldn't legally return fire until aggressed.
Also, I'd love to see bounties come with a Concord payout as well, perhaps 1% of bounty in LP payout, with a sec status buff based on sec standing of hostile. This should be split amongst those registered bounty hunters on the killmail evenly. (ex. -10.0 bounty worth 1mil, payout 1mil isk + 10,000lp + 10% sec standing)

Make bounties easier and more profitable to cash in and you'll have people lining up to both place and redeem them. Also, you'd see bounty hunters fighting over a kill, which is always funny.