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Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1,293
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel Likes received: 1,293	#1121 - 2014-04-22 17:46:04 UTC does this guy still seriously think missile velocity is better than a double damage bonus?

TrouserDeagle

Beyond Divinity Inc

Shadow Cartel

Likes received: 1,293

#1122 - 2014-04-22 17:56:56 UTC

Cassandra Aurilien wrote:

chaosgrimm wrote:

Not that I have issues with the new snake, but if the changes to its drone bonuses are to better distinguish the snake from other drone boats, why can't the mach's offensive profile contain a tracking bonus instead a f/o bonus to help distinguish it from both the vargur and t1 minmatar?

The Vargur has a tracking bonus... Not sure how that would help distinguish it...

Most (but not all) hulls with a tracking bonus are built around long range weapon systems. The Mach being unable to fit 1400's without making pretty major fitting concessions and being given a tracking bonus is weird. (You don't really need the bonus with AC's.)

Edit: The Nightmare is a good example of the effects of the tracking bonus on a long range weapon system. It makes Tach's useful at mid-range.

you can get almost all of a tracking bonus from one module. a 50% range bonus you can't imitate so easily, and also is way better, assuming it's the correct type of range bonus (wtb generic range bonuses).

elitatwo

Zansha Expansion

Brave Collective

Likes received: 1,739

#1123 - 2014-04-22 17:57:21 UTC

Cassandra Aurilien wrote:

chaosgrimm wrote:

I am sorry to tell you this but they already are. Now with those changes to the Nightmare, you can taychon-kite with the Nightmare which sounds like really cool idea.

I will give it a try with the Phantasm as soon as it get on SiSi.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

New Eden Corporation 98713347 Brotherhood of Spacers 39
Doggy Dogwoofwoof New Eden Corporation 98713347 Brotherhood of Spacers Likes received: 39	#1124 - 2014-04-22 17:58:13 UTC TrouserDeagle wrote: does this guy still seriously think missile velocity is better than a double damage bonus? No, He thinks that bonused light and medium drones are more importnat than tanky sentry and heavy drones And a missile damage bonus. And mention something about the rattle snake shouldn't use sentrys cause it doesnt have a tracking bonus

gascanu

Bearing Srl.

Likes received: 305

#1125 - 2014-04-22 17:59:26 UTC | Edited by: gascanu

Ebag Trescientas wrote:

[High]
CML II x5
DLA II

[Medium]
LMJD
LSB II
SBA II
AIF II
OTL II
TP II x2

[Low]
BCS II x3
DDA II x3

[Rigs]
LWRC II
LWRC x2

That fit (which I just threw together quickly, I'm sure you could optimize it) requires 5% CPU from implants. Swapping out for faction or M4 would lower that requirement (you could also drop one or two of the rigors).

Keep in mind that I don't have the missile damage bonus on the hull applied (as it's a new bonus, and I haven't messed with creating effects yet, boosting the existing drone bonus was easy though). Even without the 50% hull bonus you still get a DPS of 503 for missile (using fury) and 751 for drones, with 68k EHP, 231 HP/s active tank, and 51 HP/s passive tank.

If you swap the T2 cruise for T2 RHML, you only need a 2% CPU implant. Your weapon DPS drops to 383 (again, without the 50% hull bonus and using fury), so it looks like about a 20% missile damage drop if you use RHML instead of CML (or about 10% of your total damage once hull damage bonus is applied).

So yeah, if you went max damage you could just barely fit it all, and once you apply the hull bonus should be able to break 1500 DPS.

It would make a lot of people happy, but as has been pointed out before (when I suggested basically the same thing) heavies need to be fixed at the source, not a band-aid that is put on that only fits RS.

large shield booster? really? and you need a 5% implant to fit it? so basically you cannot fit an xlarge shield booster or a x-large ancillary without a coprocesor; yea, i see, t no cpu problems at all... Shocked

how about fitting torpedo launchers? oh right who need torpedos when we have rapid launchers, lol

Last Wolf

Umbra Wing

Likes received: 351

#1126 - 2014-04-22 18:01:56 UTC

TrouserDeagle wrote:

does this guy still seriously think missile velocity is better than a double damage bonus?

But with a Missile Velocity bonus you can load your Gallente Navy Torpedo Launcher with Fleet Issue Multifrequency Artillery Shells and do better Drone Damage at longer ranges.

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....

KaDa en Bauldry

Aliastra

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 70

#1127 - 2014-04-22 18:12:00 UTC

gascanu wrote:

how about fitting torpedo launchers? oh right who need torpedos when we have rapid launchers, lol

My thoughts exactly when I read it.

Don't forget about ship insurance before undocking. Don't forget about copy-paste saving before posting.

Cassandra Aurilien

Imperial Academy

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 177

#1128 - 2014-04-22 18:13:51 UTC

elitatwo wrote:

Cassandra Aurilien wrote:

chaosgrimm wrote:

That's my point. I fly a MWD Tach Nightmare now... Can't wait for the AB bonus. The tracking bonus on it is great for that very reason. On a AC Mach though, the tracking bonus would be worthless.

Ebag Trescientas

Center for Advanced Studies

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 40

#1129 - 2014-04-22 18:23:55 UTC

gascanu wrote:

Imagine that, you have to sacrifice some tank in order to max out your DPS. Crazy! Shocked

Instead of T2 painters use M4, and you don't need any implants to fit that. (As I previously mentioned, I just threw all T2 mods in there and didn't optimize the fit at all.)

You want XLASB? It's doable, but you would have to drop to RHML (10% damage loss), swap the MJD for 100mn booster rockets, and still need a 4% CPU implant. You could lose the implant req or fit higher CPU req AB if you're willing to cut into your DPS further.

10% damage loss in exchange for nearly tripling your active tank (627.6 HP up from 231 HP/s and you still keep the 52 HP/s passive tank), sounds like a pretty fair trade to me.

gascanu wrote:

how about fitting torpedo launchers? oh right who need torpedos when we have rapid launchers, lol

Well, the PG req is easy enough on torp launchers. The CPU is going to be what kills you. What sort of torp fit did you want to see?

Want Pyfa, but with more features?

Pyfa.fit

Beta Maoye

Likes received: 166

#1130 - 2014-04-22 18:27:09 UTC

CCP Rise wrote:

========================================================================================

RATTLESNAKE

Gallente Battleship Bonus:
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 10% drone damage and hitpoints)

Caldari Battleship Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances

Role Bonus:
275% bonus to heavy and sentry drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Cruise missile and Torpedo max velocity)

Slot layout: 6H, 7M, 6L; 0 turrets, 5 launchers(+1)
Fittings: 10000 PWG, 710 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 12750 / 8940(-358) / 9960
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 5350(+38) / 1154000ms / 4.59
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 94 / .128 / 99300000 / 18.45s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-75) / 175(-225)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 30
Signature radius: 450(-10)

To keep the Rattlesnake bonus in line with other Gallente ships and Caldari ships, Gallente ship should give drone bonus and Caldari ship should give missile bouns. So, the ship bonus should be:

RATTLESNAKE

Gallente Battleship Bonus:
55% bonus to heavy and sentry drone damage and hitpoints per level.

Caldari Battleship Bonus:
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage per level.

Role Bonus:
20% bonus to all shield resistances.


KaDa en Bauldry Aliastra Gallente Federation Likes received: 70	#1131 - 2014-04-22 18:29:30 UTC Ebag Trescientas wrote: Well, the PG req is easy enough on torp launchers. The CPU is going to be what kills you. What sort of torp fit did you want to see? That's why I proposed taking PG away, and giving the ship some much needed CPU. Don't forget about ship insurance before undocking. Don't forget about copy-paste saving before posting.

epicurus ataraxia

Illusion of Solitude.

Illusion of Solitude

Likes received: 1,840

#1132 - 2014-04-22 18:37:33 UTC

Last Wolf wrote:

What if the rattle's role bonus was changed to this:

ROLE:
350% Damage, HP, Tracking, Speed, Optimal Range, Falloff, Activation Range for Heavy Drones
275% Damage, HP for Sentry Drones.

Would make me happy at least.

I am not focusing on the numbers, but for heavy drones to become useful again, would make a lot of people very happy.
I think that if the drone subsystem became really useful and the missile system really useful, and we chose which to give precedence to with the fittings and mods. Then we would be in a good place.

Naturally one would not be able to fit for maximum missile dps and maximum drone DPS AT THE SAME TIME, so no one needs to think that the ship would gain all that power at the same time.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Doggy Dogwoofwoof

New Eden Corporation 98713347

Brotherhood of Spacers

Likes received: 39

#1133 - 2014-04-22 18:37:35 UTC

Beta Maoye wrote:

CCP Rise wrote:

While the idea is good, CCP Doesnt want to make Gal BS 5 a requirement to fly the snake.
ATM just Roleplay that roden made their last launcher hardware for the rattlesnake

Ebag Trescientas

Center for Advanced Studies

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 40

#1134 - 2014-04-22 18:42:55 UTC

KaDa en Bauldry wrote:

Ebag Trescientas wrote:

Well, the PG req is easy enough on torp launchers. The CPU is going to be what kills you. What sort of torp fit did you want to see?

That's why I proposed taking PG away, and giving the ship some much needed CPU.

PG isn't much of a problem for any of the Guirista ships. I wouldn't complain about a change across the board for them.

I still don't think that RS NEEDS more CPU (unlike Worm and Gila), but it's mildly annoying to have tons of free PG and be scraping by on CPU...

Want Pyfa, but with more features?

Pyfa.fit

Fabulous Rod

Darkfall Corp

Likes received: 67

#1135 - 2014-04-22 19:10:38 UTC

Daichi Yamato wrote:

heavies will travel much faster in summer at least. so i may start using them against targets at 20km rather than just 10km lol.

They still suck and the extra survivability they will be getting won't be worth the loss of survivability and damage on light and medium drones. 5 drones is almost always better than 2.

These changes are big nerfs to the rattlesnake for an on-paper DPS increase that still won't make them worth playing.

CODE.d 6,149
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d Likes received: 6,149	#1136 - 2014-04-22 19:28:03 UTC Man, I just can't wait for the T3 rebalance... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Mike Voidstar

Voidstar Free Flight Foundation

Likes received: 1,221

#1137 - 2014-04-22 19:28:07 UTC | Edited by: ISD Ezwal

Rod... It really isnt up for discussion. You will not get them to drop the Superdrone concept. *Snip* Removed reply to deleted posts. ISD Ezwal.

Maybe, just maybe...you could get another 25-50 dronebay, but I would not count on it. A role bonus to lights/mediums might actually see the light of day too. In fact it would be great if the Gila could get one to put 8 effective lights out as well, but with the strength of the Gilas bonus I doubt it would happen, nor is it really needed.

Dronebay between encounters is less important than it was, a mobile depot can be used to change out drones. With the superdrone bonus the current bay has plenty of room for 2 flights of light, 2 of heavy/sentry and a utility flight of salvagers or reppers as you prefer.

Few people would put out mediums from a battleship drone bay. Destroyers on up are easily hit by both sentry and heavy drones, and lights are used for frigates.

I am unsure what your beef with unbonused light/medium drones are that cant be handled by fitting some smaller launchers, but its time to start considering what you will need to do when the inevitable changes come and make some rational arguments and requests based on what has been set in stone rather than to continue to agitate uselessly for changes that no one but you seem to think are worth even considering.

chaosgrimm

Synth Tech

Likes received: 203

#1138 - 2014-04-22 19:55:12 UTC | Edited by: chaosgrimm

Cassandra Aurilien wrote:

chaosgrimm wrote:

There are a very small number of occurances where the Machs offensive profile can't outperform the vargurs

The Mach is arguably the best BS arty platform in the game. By ur logic it should have a tracking bonus.

IMO the roles of pirates aren't restricted to long range short v range wep platforms, but high dmg/application/speed while running a riskier tank

Part of the risky tank concept is having to be at a closer ranges with a given wep platform. For example kronos v vindi and to a lesser extent pally v nm.

The Machs projection bonus increases allows it to keep distance / increase survivability. The speed and agility help w/ dmg application through both f/o and angular. If it had a tracking bonus, it would be better at applying dmg at closer ranges, but in order to maintain its "king of BS projectile DPS" title, it would need to assume more risk.

In other words, the mach currently doesn't sacrifice much to be the king of projectiles. Switching to a tracking bonus would give it some new advantages + disadvantages, wouldn't ruin the hull, and further distinguish it from other projectile alternatives

Perkone Caldari State 1,562
Morrigan LeSante Perkone Caldari State Likes received: 1,562	#1139 - 2014-04-22 19:56:11 UTC \| Edited by: ISD Ezwal 2 Like I said, if you were FULLY trained for the aforementioned pirate BS, you wouldnt even break stride. Snip Removed reply to a deleted post. ISD Ezwal.


Morrigan LeSante Perkone Caldari State Likes received: 1,562	#1140 - 2014-04-22 20:01:31 UTC 1 Well, now it's better than before as it gets bonused RLML, now it munches them like a HAC. Happy days.

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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Beyond Divinity Inc

Shadow Cartel

Zansha Expansion

Brave Collective

New Eden Corporation 98713347

Brotherhood of Spacers

Bearing Srl.

Umbra Wing

Aliastra

Gallente Federation

Imperial Academy

Amarr Empire

Center for Advanced Studies

Gallente Federation

Illusion of Solitude.

Illusion of Solitude

Darkfall Corp

CODE.d

Voidstar Free Flight Foundation

Synth Tech

Perkone

Caldari State