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Pirates and T3
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Vulfen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-04-17 16:58:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Vulfen
Personally id like to see more innovation in the current tech 3s so here is what i'm proposing, Pirate faction T3 subsystems

Each faction piece will require you to have the subsystem skill from each race it relates to. bonuses should not be greater than the standard T3 specs but it will introduce some new bonuses as well. Each subsystem can be fitted to each of the required race's T3 ships i.e sansha subsystems can fit to both Legion & caldari.

The Aim is that each race gets a new couple subsystems for different parts, there will be no new ones in the Enginneering sub-system section as that already covers the necessary bases

Some of the bonuses that are normally associated with pirates are on T3 so i sugest some extra bonuses to assist with the balance. here are a few of my ideas

Sansha (Amarr-Legion/Caladri-Tengu)

Offensive Subsystem; 30% Bonus to Energy Weapon damage per level 10% to Energy weapon Tracking Per level - 3 turret slots

Propulsion Subsystem; 30% Bonus to Cruiser Sized After burner speed boost per level 10% reduction in Afterburner cap cost per level (does not work with 100MN)

Blood Raiders (Amarr-Legion/Mimmatar-Loki)

This is the hardest because it's bonuses are already in existence with both the races so i thought i would change it up a little

Electronics Subsystem: 20% Bonus to energy Vampire Range per level 20% Bonus to Energy Vampire transfer amount per level Role: Energy Vampires transfer regardless of your opponents cap level.

Offensive Subsystem: 30% Bonus to Energy Weapon damage per level 10% reduction in Energy Turret Cap usage 5% Bonus to Turret Optimal range - 3 turret slots

Guristas (Caladri-Tengu/Gallente-Proteus)

Defensive subsystem: 4% Shield Resistance per level & 5% Bonus to drone speed per level - unlike existing 4% mod it provides +1 mid slot & + 25 drone bandwidth & 50 Drone Bay

Offensive subsystem - 40% Bonus to Medium & Light drone HP + Damage Per Level & +7.5% to Missle Launcher rate of fire - 3 launchers 4 highs + 2 lows

Serpentis (Gallente-Proteus/Mimmatar-Loki)

Electronics Subsystem; 5% Bonus to Web Effectiveness & 7.5% Bonus to Web Range + 3mids + 1 low

Propulsion Subsystem; 7.5% bonus to MWD Capacitor penalty per level 5% reduction is MWD/AB capacitor usage per level

Angel (Gallente-Proteus/Mimmatar-Loki)

Propulsion Subsystem; 10% Bonus to warp speed per level & 5% bonus to Ship Agility per level



I welcome peoples comments & if you have any ideas for subsystems related to the pirate factions please post them i like to see other peoples ideas

Thanks
Vulfen
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#2 - 2014-04-17 17:26:29 UTC
I really like this idea. While I may disagree with some of the bonus I like the idea of faction subsystems.

The only thing, is that there is currently no faction version of anything outside of tech 1 stuff.

I'd much rather see a Navy Issue Nighthawk or Navy Issue Paladin (//drool) before buffing T3's even more... =D

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#3 - 2014-04-17 17:43:33 UTC

I personally believe t3's are somewhat out of balance with the rest of eve ships. I'm not terribly excited about adding new ones until the old ones get rebalanced.

Vulfen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2014-04-17 17:55:27 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I personally believe t3's are somewhat out of balance with the rest of eve ships. I'm not terribly excited about adding new ones until the old ones get rebalanced.



I figure they can work these in with the rebalance as some of my suggestions may clash anyway
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2014-04-17 19:39:20 UTC
Last Wolf wrote:
I really like this idea. While I may disagree with some of the bonus I like the idea of faction subsystems.

The only thing, is that there is currently no faction version of anything outside of tech 1 stuff.

I'd much rather see a Navy Issue Nighthawk or Navy Issue Paladin (//drool) before buffing T3's even more... =D

swear to got if the navy issue paladin is a missile boat CCP would regret it so hard.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-04-17 20:07:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
If, once t3s are balanced, they do decide add t3 pirate ships I would imagine that they would be able to use subsystems from either of the regular t3 ships.
Beyond that adding new pirate specific subs could be dangerous.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#7 - 2014-04-17 21:55:07 UTC
not sold, but not set against either.

but:


FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!


can we get them balanced so they're almost always less effective at any given role than their T2 couterparts?

before we add any new stuff that might, you know, make them even less balanced.

Also - pirate hulls work because there's only 1 hull, and you can't mix that hull with another hull (that's not even how you got the pirate hull in the first place!), and that mixing's kinda what you're introducing here.....

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#8 - 2014-04-19 12:57:30 UTC
Vulfen wrote:
Personally id like to see more innovation in the current tech 3s so here is what i'm proposing, Pirate faction T3 subsystems

Each faction piece will require you to have the subsystem skill from each race it relates to. bonuses should not be greater than the standard T3 specs but it will introduce some new bonuses as well. Each subsystem can be fitted to each of the required race's T3 ships i.e sansha subsystems can fit to both Legion & caldari.

The Aim is that each race gets a new couple subsystems for different parts, there will be no new ones in the Enginneering sub-system section as that already covers the necessary bases

Some of the bonuses that are normally associated with pirates are on T3 so i sugest some extra bonuses to assist with the balance. here are a few of my ideas

Sansha (Amarr-Legion/Caladri-Tengu)

Offensive Subsystem; 30% Bonus to Energy Weapon damage per level 10% to Energy weapon Tracking Per level - 3 turret slots

Propulsion Subsystem; 30% Bonus to Cruiser Sized After burner speed boost per level 10% reduction in Afterburner cap cost per level (does not work with 100MN)

Blood Raiders (Amarr-Legion/Mimmatar-Loki)

This is the hardest because it's bonuses are already in existence with both the races so i thought i would change it up a little

Electronics Subsystem: 20% Bonus to energy Vampire Range per level 20% Bonus to Energy Vampire transfer amount per level (stacks with the possible electronics subsystem on amarr) Role: Energy Vampires transfer regardless of your opponents cap level.

Offensive Subsystem: 30% Bonus to Energy Weapon damage per level 10% reduction in Energy Turret Cap usage 5% Bonus to Turret Optimal range - 3 turret slots

Guristas (Caladri-Tengu/Gallente-Proteus)

Defensive subsystem: 4% Shield Resistance per level & 5% Bonus to drone speed per level - unlike existing 4% mod it provides +1 mid slot & + 25 drone bandwidth & 50 Drone Bay

Offensive subsystem - 40% Bonus to Medium & Light drone HP + Damage Per Level & +7.5% to Missle Launcher rate of fire - 3 launchers 4 highs + 2 lows

Syndicate (Gallente-Proteus/Mimmatar-Loki)

Electronics Subsystem; 5% Bonus to Web Effectiveness & 7.5% Bonus to Web Range + 3mids + 1 low

Propulsion Subsystem; 7.5% bonus to MWD Capacitor penalty per level 5% reduction is MWD/AB capacitor usage per level

Angel (Gallente-Proteus/Mimmatar-Loki)

Propulsion Subsystem; 10% Bonus to warp speed per level & 5% bonus to Ship Agility per level



I welcome peoples comments & if you have any ideas for subsystems related to the pirate factions please post them i like to see other peoples ideas

Thanks
Vulfen


Very interesting Idea to roll into the T3 rebalance, I like it, bonuses will need to be reevaluated naturally but a good idea.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Karen Avioras
The Raging Raccoons
#9 - 2014-04-19 13:33:17 UTC
I like the idea of this, I really do.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#10 - 2014-04-19 14:36:00 UTC
Vulfen wrote:

Syndicate (Gallente-Proteus/Mimmatar-Loki)


Yes you may find the Serpentis in Syndicate but they are just molesting the space there, amonst other regions.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Vulfen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2014-04-22 09:18:02 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Vulfen wrote:

Syndicate (Gallente-Proteus/Mimmatar-Loki)


Yes you may find the Serpentis in Syndicate but they are just molesting the space there, amonst other regions.


Yea my bad OP changed
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#12 - 2014-04-22 10:13:35 UTC
T1 Submoduls for ma T3 too? ;P

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Blodhgarm Dethahal
8 Sins of Man
Stray Dogs.
#13 - 2014-04-22 14:00:02 UTC
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:


can we get [the old T3s] balanced so they're almost always less effective at any given role than their T2 couterparts?



They are already less effective at specialized roles compared to their T2 counterparts..

a T3 cannot repair as efficiently as a Logi..
a T3 cannot have the same EWar strength a Recon (Pilgrim/Falcon)..
a T3 cannot have same scan strength as a Covert Ops..
a T3 cannot tackle from as far as away as a Recon (Arazu/Rapier)..
a T3 is not as agile as a HAC..
a T3 does not reach the same DPS as a Command Ship

a T3 DOES do similar/more DPS as a HAC in a tankier platform while mix and matching above roles

And lets face it... I lose skillpoints when I lose the thing.. I think it should have a few perks..
SmarncaV2
Doomheim
#14 - 2014-04-22 14:32:08 UTC
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:


can we get [the old T3s] balanced so they're almost always less effective at any given role than their T2 couterparts?



They are already less effective at specialized roles compared to their T2 counterparts..

a T3 cannot repair as efficiently as a Logi..
a T3 cannot have the same EWar strength a Recon (Pilgrim/Falcon)..
a T3 cannot have same scan strength as a Covert Ops..
a T3 cannot tackle from as far as away as a Recon (Arazu/Rapier)..
a T3 is not as agile as a HAC..
a T3 does not reach the same DPS as a Command Ship

a T3 DOES do similar/more DPS as a HAC in a tankier platform while mix and matching above roles

And lets face it... I lose skillpoints when I lose the thing.. I think it should have a few perks..


Let me guess. You live in a wormhole?
Vulfen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2014-04-22 14:50:09 UTC
SmarncaV2 wrote:
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:


can we get [the old T3s] balanced so they're almost always less effective at any given role than their T2 couterparts?



They are already less effective at specialized roles compared to their T2 counterparts..

a T3 cannot repair as efficiently as a Logi..
a T3 cannot have the same EWar strength a Recon (Pilgrim/Falcon)..
a T3 cannot have same scan strength as a Covert Ops..
a T3 cannot tackle from as far as away as a Recon (Arazu/Rapier)..
a T3 is not as agile as a HAC..
a T3 does not reach the same DPS as a Command Ship

a T3 DOES do similar/more DPS as a HAC in a tankier platform while mix and matching above roles

And lets face it... I lose skillpoints when I lose the thing.. I think it should have a few perks..


Let me guess. You live in a wormhole?


Lets face it T3s are supposed to be flexible. They can't match the T2s in any one specific aspect but they strike a balance and compromise between it all to make the perfect choice in most situations. But then the price tag relates to how much more useful the ships are.
Personally i think that the only thing wrong with the T3s is some fitting & mobility stats.
Blodhgarm Dethahal
8 Sins of Man
Stray Dogs.
#16 - 2014-04-22 18:15:01 UTC
SmarncaV2 wrote:
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:


can we get [the old T3s] balanced so they're almost always less effective at any given role than their T2 couterparts?



They are already less effective at specialized roles compared to their T2 counterparts..

a T3 cannot repair as efficiently as a Logi..
a T3 cannot have the same EWar strength a Recon (Pilgrim/Falcon)..
a T3 cannot have same scan strength as a Covert Ops..
a T3 cannot tackle from as far as away as a Recon (Arazu/Rapier)..
a T3 is not as agile as a HAC..
a T3 does not reach the same DPS as a Command Ship

a T3 DOES do similar/more DPS as a HAC in a tankier platform while mix and matching above roles

And lets face it... I lose skillpoints when I lose the thing.. I think it should have a few perks..


Let me guess. You live in a wormhole?


Correct.. and that relates to this descusion why? It has no bearing on the fact that T3s are still in a more reasonable position than people think.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#17 - 2014-04-22 20:08:51 UTC
What about a Sansha T3 Strategic Cruiser?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#18 - 2014-04-22 21:32:58 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
What about a Sansha T3 Strategic Cruiser?


a whole new ship hull? uhhhh, only if you introduce the other pirate factions own T3's, and T2's, and a full range of frigs, up to BS's, and then too only if they don't completely obsolete the current T3 hulls

basically - Not in a LOOOONG TIME

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#19 - 2014-04-22 21:38:42 UTC
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
SmarncaV2 wrote:
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:


can we get [the old T3s] balanced so they're almost always less effective at any given role than their T2 couterparts?



They are already less effective at specialized roles compared to their T2 counterparts..

a T3 cannot repair as efficiently as a Logi..
a T3 cannot have the same EWar strength a Recon (Pilgrim/Falcon)..
a T3 cannot have same scan strength as a Covert Ops..
a T3 cannot tackle from as far as away as a Recon (Arazu/Rapier)..
a T3 is not as agile as a HAC..
a T3 does not reach the same DPS as a Command Ship

a T3 DOES do similar/more DPS as a HAC in a tankier platform while mix and matching above roles

And lets face it... I lose skillpoints when I lose the thing.. I think it should have a few perks..


Let me guess. You live in a wormhole?


Correct.. and that relates to this descusion why? It has no bearing on the fact that T3s are still in a more reasonable position than people think.



it doesn't really - but it provides the ability to use one hull (and thus one hull skill, 2 if you count racial cruiser, 4 if you count all the pre-reqs) to do what would otherwise need several hull skills - but that's the WHOLE POINT of T3's - not the ability to do HAC/Command Ship DPS, whilst tanking like a BS, and moving like a HAC (which is what they've become famous for...)

I think they shouldn't be able to reach the active tank of a command ship, maybe not even the active tank of a HAC, whilst maintaining their damage output.

Regarding my prior post - yeah - it was just a poorly thought out burst of frustration at T3's in general.....(no there is no associated KM)

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.