These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Forum Index

EVE Forums » EVE Technology and Research Center » Player Features and Ideas Discussion » [Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

Topic is locked indefinitely.

First pagePrevious page5354555657Next pageLast page

[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships First post First post First post
Author

Previous Topic Next Topic

Doggy Dogwoofwoof

New Eden Corporation 98713347

Brotherhood of Spacers

Likes received: 39

#1081 - 2014-04-22 07:37:02 UTC

gascanu wrote:

========================================================================================

Quote:

RATTLESNAKE

Gallente Battleship Bonus:
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 10% drone damage and hitpoints)

Caldari Battleship Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances

Role Bonus:
275% bonus to heavy and sentry drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Cruise missile and Torpedo max velocity)

Slot layout: 6H, 7M, 6L; 0 turrets, 5 launchers(+1)
Fittings: 10000 PWG, 710 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 12750 / 8940(-358) / 9960
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 5350(+38) / 1154000ms / 4.59
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 94 / .128 / 99300000 / 18.45s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-75) / 175(-225)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 30
Signature radius: 450(-10)

========================================================================================

so:
the role bonus is a strait nerf to the rattlesnake:

- you lose dps and hp on light drones;
- you lose: dps and hp on medium drones;
- you lose:the ability to use 5 heavy ew/logistic drones- and i know there are not allot of pilots using them atm, but they will get a buff at some future point as ccp already promised; the same thing apply to medium drones

- you keep the same total dps and hp on heavy and sentry drones: and while at it, if 1 of your only 2 drones gets webbed, or manage a poor hit or a miss, that's half of your drone dps gone... and that will happen allot.

-you gain.... a bit more surviability for your heavy drones: sentrys don't really need hp boost, since you are in scoop range. and if you are not then it doesn't really matter they will die anyway; and if a heavy gets webbed at 30km away it will die with or without the hp bonus bonus

I'm sorry, but i don't see how can someone say this role bonus is am improvement for the rattlesnake; except maybe some ****** that think managing 5 drones is hard, lol, and maybe some semiafk mission runners.

now on the missile part:

Quote:

10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 10% drone damage and hitpoints)

this bonus and the adding of another launcher is an improvement to the current rattlesnake, there is not denying that, the paper stats looks very nice.
i'm not a missile user myself, except hams maibe, so i don't really know how well cruise missile really apply dmg in eve today.
but, looking around , i see that basically every missile bs that is used in some numbers today have a dmg aplication bonus: raven navy/golem/navy phoon, all of them have that in common. so i guess that they really need that bonus to put down their dps; a bonus that rattlesnake don't have.(i think this lack is intentional as CCP Rise is trying to find a spot for his( not really used weapon system) rapid launchers, and gila and rattle are basically build with rapid launchers in mind)

So, i think that there will be a big difference between paper numbers and reall numbers when it come to missiles;

as a conclusion:
is this new rattlesnake better that the old one? yes.
it this new rattlesnake on the same lvl with the rest of the pirate bs? no!

p.s. i remember the last pirate bs rebalance pass; it was basically the same at least regarding the rattlesnake: ALLOT of ppl complained that the role bonus(50% bonus to Cruise missile and Torpedo max velocity) was a wasted bonus on a 4 unbonused launchers; and there were some ppl that were all out about how awesome the rattlesnake will be....
i don't remember the name of the dev that was doing the rebalance at that time, but he deceided to ignore all the arguments about the wasted bonus and to go with the "positive feedback"(ring a bell?) on it; we all know what happent after that: rattlesnake become the worse pirate bs in game for a looong time; CCP Rise, you should learn from that Blink

I dont know how accurate this is now, But last time i did the math, Percision cruise were out DPSing HMLs vs frigs.
We need it on SISI before we can tell how bad the Damage application actually is.
Good points though

Morrigan LeSante

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 1,562

#1082 - 2014-04-22 07:45:50 UTC

Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:

They're fine so long as you triple rigor and have a pair of painters on there.

Stoicfaux ran math a good while back comparing the CNR and the TFI (so, bonused ship vs unbonused ship numbers)

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3066848

I see no mathematical reason the 'snake wont behave like that too.

gascanu

Bearing Srl.

Likes received: 305

#1083 - 2014-04-22 09:02:29 UTC

Morrigan LeSante wrote:

Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:

They're fine so long as you triple rigor and have a pair of painters on there.

.

; 3 rigs and 2 painters to apply you dps? how is that fine? they're actually not fine; 5 slots to apply your dps and that's only for the missile part of the ship;agree, those painters will help you with drones also but still...
not to mention that those rigs will cripple your already tight cpu...

Morrigan LeSante

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 1,562

#1084 - 2014-04-22 09:06:41 UTC

gascanu wrote:

Morrigan LeSante wrote:

Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:

They're fine so long as you triple rigor and have a pair of painters on there.

.

Welcome to a missile users world. That is standard fare and I already mentioned it is absurdly hard to fit. CNRs are the same, as are TFIs. Launcher rigging IV is a must for most, rigging V for the new rattler, imho.

Remember they never miss - once you hit the mark of being apply to apply it, it's as consistent as gravity.

Luscius Uta

Likes received: 243

#1085 - 2014-04-22 09:10:14 UTC

Hasikan Miallok wrote:

Seems to me the reason lights and mediums are not getting the 275% bonus is pretty obvious.

With 50m3 bandwidth and a 275% bonus on hammerheads you would be fielding a flight of 5 hammerheads doing the equivalent damage of 18.75 hammerheads.

That would be an awful lot of DPS.

Except that I don't think that anyone wanted a 275% bonus to apply to light and medium drones (even though I haven't read all the posts in this thread). The old bonus of 10% to drone damage and hitpoints per level was working well and was apparently changed just for the sake of changing. Unless CCP Rise makes further adjustments, this will turn the Rattlesnake from a proper drone boat into something gimmicky. No, it won't be a terrible ship, but it will still be the worst pirate Battleship.

What I would do is to keep the old bonus from Gallente Battleship skill, but replace the 275% role bonus with 150% bonus. Paired with the new reduced bandwidth it will still result in the same DPS of all drones. Fifth launcher should also stay, to make up for the loss of the old role bonus.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

gascanu

Bearing Srl.

Likes received: 305

#1086 - 2014-04-22 09:33:30 UTC

Morrigan LeSante wrote:

gascanu wrote:

Morrigan LeSante wrote:

Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:

They're fine so long as you triple rigor and have a pair of painters on there.

.

true but we are talking about a pirate ship right here; "hard to fit" should be the last thing you will expect of a ship from this lot;
right now a t1 raven have a better cpu than the ratllesnake

Kaarous Aldurald

Black Hydra Consortium.

Likes received: 16,296

#1087 - 2014-04-22 09:36:16 UTC

gascanu wrote:

true but we are talking about a pirate ship right here; "hard to fit" should be the last thing you will expect of a ship from this lot;
right now a t1 raven have a better cpu than the ratllesnake

I'd point out that "easy to fit" pretty much ceased being a pirate ship trait when they chopped off so much powergrid from several of the cruisers.

Seems to me these are now intended to be high skillcap ships.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

baltec1

Bat Country

Pandemic Horde

Likes received: 19,001

#1088 - 2014-04-22 10:35:47 UTC | Edited by: baltec1

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

gascanu wrote:

true but we are talking about a pirate ship right here; "hard to fit" should be the last thing you will expect of a ship from this lot;
right now a t1 raven have a better cpu than the ratllesnake

Being easy to fit takes away part of the fun for me. I'm holding off on commenting on fitting issues until I get my hands on them. That said the fittings are unchanged but they have added another launcher so when fitting something cruise or torps you are likely going to get tight.

Morrigan LeSante

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 1,562

#1089 - 2014-04-22 10:39:04 UTC | Edited by: Morrigan LeSante

baltec1 wrote:

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

gascanu wrote:

true but we are talking about a pirate ship right here; "hard to fit" should be the last thing you will expect of a ship from this lot;
right now a t1 raven have a better cpu than the ratllesnake

The one I flew needed quite a bit of faction and high skills. A rigged launcher costs more CPU than a DLA, it'd be even tighter (had I not sold it with the omni changes).

It's was the same with the CNR - they gave it an extra mid and the requirement to fit more launchers but left the CPU untouched. I have no objection to needing high/perfect skills to fit a ship but requiring that much faction was irritating. However, I digress, point was I've seen a few rebalances where extra slots/hardpoints were added without any fitting leeway so they de-facto become harder to fit.

Kaarous Aldurald

Black Hydra Consortium.

Likes received: 16,296

#1090 - 2014-04-22 10:44:56 UTC

baltec1 wrote:

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

gascanu wrote:

true but we are talking about a pirate ship right here; "hard to fit" should be the last thing you will expect of a ship from this lot;
right now a t1 raven have a better cpu than the ratllesnake

Being easy to fit takes away part of the fun for me. I'm holding off on commenting on fitting issues until I get my hands on them. That said the fittings are unchanged but they have added another launcher so when fitting something cruise or torps you are likely going to get tight.

Why does that not surprise me? It's you, afterall, the man who turned a Megathron into an assault frigate.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.


baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Horde Likes received: 19,001	#1091 - 2014-04-22 10:48:02 UTC 2 Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Why does that not surprise me? It's you, afterall, the man who turned a Megathron into an assault frigate. The warp speed changes have been so much fun

gascanu

Bearing Srl.

Likes received: 305

#1092 - 2014-04-22 11:08:19 UTC | Edited by: gascanu

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

gascanu wrote:

true but we are talking about a pirate ship right here; "hard to fit" should be the last thing you will expect of a ship from this lot;
right now a t1 raven have a better cpu than the ratllesnake

i think this case have more to do with heavy assault launchers: aka the ship is designed around them;
basically even with max skills you cannot fit a full t2 fit, you need some good stash of faction stuff;
and this is only rattlesnake case, the rest of the pirate bs fit just fine(except mach fitting 1400s but that's another story)

edit: and this is using cruise, torpedos will be even harder

Arthur Aihaken

CODE.d

Likes received: 6,149

#1093 - 2014-04-22 11:16:33 UTC | Edited by: Arthur Aihaken

gascanu wrote:

edit: and this is using cruise, torpedos will be even harder

It's not a coincidence that this will be extremely easy to fit with rapid heavy missile launchers. Honestly, the loss of the missile velocity bonus effectively rules out torpedoes going forward anyway.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

gascanu

Bearing Srl.

Likes received: 305

#1094 - 2014-04-22 11:20:22 UTC | Edited by: gascanu

Arthur Aihaken wrote:

gascanu wrote:

edit: and this is using cruise, torpedos will be even harder

yea, and that's the problem: they(rhmls) are BAD and being forced to use them is not a buff to the ship; more like a nerf


baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Horde Likes received: 19,001	#1095 - 2014-04-22 11:20:23 UTC 1 Arthur Aihaken wrote: It's not a coincidence that this will be extremely easy to fit with rapid heavy missile launchers. Honestly, the loss of the missile velocity bonus effectively rules out torpedoes going forward anyway. Torps still have their uses.

Kaarous Aldurald

Black Hydra Consortium.

Likes received: 16,296

#1096 - 2014-04-22 11:35:53 UTC

baltec1 wrote:

Arthur Aihaken wrote:

Torps still have their uses.

With sentries and torps I bet this thing would be a beast at structure shooting.

Still not viable for large scale use of course due to prohibitive cost expense.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.


Morrigan LeSante Perkone Caldari State Likes received: 1,562	#1097 - 2014-04-22 11:52:54 UTC Ogres>sentries for a POS bash.


gascanu Bearing Srl. Likes received: 305	#1098 - 2014-04-22 12:02:31 UTC Morrigan LeSante wrote: Ogres>sentries for a POS bash. not really

Perkone Caldari State 0
Deadri Okanata Perkone Caldari State Likes received: 0	#1099 - 2014-04-22 12:43:32 UTC I'm a complete noob to EVE so forgive me if I'm talking bulshit, but isn't it possible to have 1 sentry and 4 light drones out at the same time with the new Rattlesnake? This way you will have 3.75 effective sentries and 4 lights at the same time. So you won't loose all that much drone dps if you switch for killing frigates.


Morrigan LeSante Perkone Caldari State Likes received: 1,562	#1100 - 2014-04-22 13:02:43 UTC 3 You know that you can kill frigates with more than bonused light drones, right? For example, precision missiles, you can use T2 weapons on your pirate hull, right? Right?

First pagePrevious page5354555657Next pageLast page