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why are people saying Fraction warfare is broken?

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Arwen Ariniel
Shaolin Legacy
Preatoriani
#61 - 2014-04-18 16:20:41 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
[quote=Dr Strange Love]and despite what every bleeding heart badass wants to think that stabbed farmers are counterable, they are NOT. there is zero incentive to sit in system and hunt a stabbed farmer for 8 hours.

They're even easy to counter. You just have to figure out the clue to catching them ;)
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#62 - 2014-04-18 17:00:36 UTC
Arwen Ariniel wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
[quote=Dr Strange Love]and despite what every bleeding heart badass wants to think that stabbed farmers are counterable, they are NOT. there is zero incentive to sit in system and hunt a stabbed farmer for 8 hours.

They're even easy to counter. You just have to figure out the clue to catching them ;)

ok jackass. i have killed thousands of stabbed farmers. and what has done for the war effort? NOTHING i wasted my time killing worthless ships instead of searching for real isk value to kill.

And once you kill them a few times. they start watching D-scan, then its impossible to catch them. then you have sit in system for 8 hours running the farmer out of plexs. NO THANKS.

there is no counter. so sit down and shut up.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#63 - 2014-04-18 17:34:59 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
there is no counter. so sit down and shut up.

Sure there is.

You ignore them. Don't bother chasing stabbed cloaky farmers.

If you want a plex, they'll never stop you from taking it. If you want to take a system, they'll never bother farming there. If you want to hold a system, they'll never influence the contested percentage in a meaningful way.

They are, in short, totally irrelevant to anyone in FW, regardless of faction, who is there for the pew against people who want to pew.

Treat them that way.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#64 - 2014-04-18 17:57:48 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Arwen Ariniel wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
[quote=Dr Strange Love]and despite what every bleeding heart badass wants to think that stabbed farmers are counterable, they are NOT. there is zero incentive to sit in system and hunt a stabbed farmer for 8 hours.

They're even easy to counter. You just have to figure out the clue to catching them ;)

ok jackass. i have killed thousands of stabbed farmers. and what has done for the war effort? NOTHING i wasted my time killing worthless ships instead of searching for real isk value to kill.

And once you kill them a few times. they start watching D-scan, then its impossible to catch them. then you have sit in system for 8 hours running the farmer out of plexs. NO THANKS.

there is no counter. so sit down and shut up.


So basically you are saying you can't be bothered to protect your systems from stabbed/cloaky farmers, so you think CCP should change the sandbox to suit your playstyle. Sorry, that ain't gonna happen. It goes against the whole premise EVE was created on.

Your options are to ignore them, drive them out of your faction's plexes by killing/denying them from completing the plexes, or deplex to offset their farming. If you can't be bothered to do that, then that is your problem; not CCPs.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
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#65 - 2014-04-18 18:08:00 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Arwen Ariniel wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
[quote=Dr Strange Love]and despite what every bleeding heart badass wants to think that stabbed farmers are counterable, they are NOT. there is zero incentive to sit in system and hunt a stabbed farmer for 8 hours.

They're even easy to counter. You just have to figure out the clue to catching them ;)

ok jackass. i have killed thousands of stabbed farmers. and what has done for the war effort? NOTHING i wasted my time killing worthless ships instead of searching for real isk value to kill.

And once you kill them a few times. they start watching D-scan, then its impossible to catch them. then you have sit in system for 8 hours running the farmer out of plexs. NO THANKS.

there is no counter. so sit down and shut up.


So basically you are saying you can't be bothered to protect your systems from stabbed/cloaky farmers, so you think CCP should change the sandbox to suit your playstyle. Sorry, that ain't gonna happen. It goes against the whole premise EVE was created on.

Your options are to ignore them, drive them out of your faction's plexes by killing/denying them from completing the plexes, or deplex to offset their farming. If you can't be bothered to do that, then that is your problem; not CCPs.

never feed the trolls. OOPS

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Arwen Ariniel
Shaolin Legacy
Preatoriani
#66 - 2014-04-19 07:38:36 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Arwen Ariniel wrote:

They're even easy to counter. You just have to figure out the clue to catching them ;)

ok jackass. BLABLABLA

there is no counter. so sit down and shut up.

So, since you like to flame, let me flame back in style ;)

It's not my fault you're too ******** to figure out the easy stuff, or make enough isk to simply buy a decent enough ship to get the job done. With even one braincell left you'd be able to figure it out and kill 'm over and over and over again.
Judging by your rant, it's quite obvious you're only able to kill the stupid and inexperienced muppets in Eve.
Go play some COD or WOW, that's more your kind of game. Get some 1337 gear and go whore some KDR.
Duke Wendo
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2014-04-19 16:38:12 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:

If it wasn't broken then it would be called 'whole warfare' and not 'fraction warfare'.

Big smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smile





Your maths made my day.

=)
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#68 - 2014-04-19 17:33:24 UTC
Arwen Ariniel wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Arwen Ariniel wrote:

They're even easy to counter. You just have to figure out the clue to catching them ;)

ok jackass. BLABLABLA

there is no counter. so sit down and shut up.

So, since you like to flame, let me flame back in style ;)

It's not my fault you're too ******** to figure out the easy stuff, or make enough isk to simply buy a decent enough ship to get the job done. With even one braincell left you'd be able to figure it out and kill 'm over and over and over again.
Judging by your rant, it's quite obvious you're only able to kill the stupid and inexperienced muppets in Eve.
Go play some COD or WOW, that's more your kind of game. Get some 1337 gear and go ***** some KDR.

not enough isk? who the **** are you idiot? do some research before you post. i was catching farmers with 2 mid ships that had republic fleet scramblers, while you were busy creating farming accounts. l2p so it looks like i outkilled you in farmers AND real kills so come back later when your done playing bf4 and ill teach you how to pvp.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Katrinna Voight-Kampf
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2014-04-20 09:16:48 UTC
Farmers with wcs and cloaking devices ruin the FW experience for me.
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#70 - 2014-04-21 11:29:44 UTC
Hasan al-Askari Mujahideen wrote:
I dont understand it, people are saying its broken and need fixed but they don't really say what is wrong with it.
I love Fw the way that it is I can only see mabye small twikes to change it but its by no means broken in my eyes.

some thing I have heard people say is

stop the wc stabs, Well there is a counter to that people have 3 stabs on ship well ill bring 2 warp scrambilers problem soved,

There farmers that only plex run away never fight, yes they farm but bring help bring system venerable and are valuable in fw so they dont pvp and run, well learn how to catch them just cuse that you want to fight them doesn't mean they want to so if you cant catch them your problem and its not broken fly an interceptor thats what they are there for.

he was in gall mill now minmitar now that were t4 and gall mill is t1, ok so he hopped fractions to make isk, you can do it to.

Only think i could realy see that is broken is Orbital bombbarment I would like to see the beacon that you warp to to start bombing show up overly as soon as there a fight going on insted of finding dust members in game, out of game.


I don't do FW but the consensus appears to be that FW is an overflowing ISK faucet atm. It went downhill from when CCP switched the main method to get datacores to FW in my humble opinion. I think there needs to be a lot more crossover between DUST FW & EVE FW, make the LP far less farmable, and introduce much more risk.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#71 - 2014-04-21 15:05:52 UTC
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
I don't do FW but the consensus appears to be that FW is an overflowing ISK faucet atm.

This. Fix mission balance so that it actually takes significant isk / SP investment to blitz L4s, and a lot of the issues will probably go away. Too high a percentage of FW pilots in Cal/Min militias aren't there for the pew or to do anything other than exploit broken mission design for high LP income.

Source: My Caldari / Minmatar bomber alts.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
SmokinJs Arthie
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#72 - 2014-04-21 15:33:40 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:

Source: My Caldari bomber alts.


Coercion with the enemy, that's a paddlin.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#73 - 2014-04-21 15:47:47 UTC
SmokinJs Arthie wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:

Source: My Caldari bomber alts.


Coercion with the enemy, that's a paddlin.

Hey now, this ain't Amarr militia. We don't go in for that kind of thing in GalMil.

... at least not without dinner and a nice "donation" to my wallet.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#74 - 2014-04-21 15:53:57 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
I don't do FW but the consensus appears to be that FW is an overflowing ISK faucet atm.

This. Fix mission balance so that it actually takes significant isk / SP investment to blitz L4s, and a lot of the issues will probably go away. Too high a percentage of FW pilots in Cal/Min militias aren't there for the pew or to do anything other than exploit broken mission design for high LP income.

Source: My Caldari / Minmatar bomber alts.

if they just fixed the mission spawn system. its still using the old FW SOV system. if missions actually spawned in only enemy systems. i garrente you mission farmer would see a dramatic decline as the risk gets WAY higher

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#75 - 2014-04-21 16:38:35 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
if they just fixed the mission spawn system. its still using the old FW SOV system. if missions actually spawned in only enemy systems. i garrente you mission farmer would see a dramatic decline as the risk gets WAY higher

Not really. You can hit Tier 3 while controlling less than half the warzone, that's plenty of systems to spread out in.

To fix missions, you need to make them more difficult, not herd the 3 month old bomber alts into a smaller area. That would just cause them to offensive plex in the other warzone instead, which would just outsource your problems to my warzone. Me no likey that solution.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#76 - 2014-04-21 16:48:00 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
if they just fixed the mission spawn system. its still using the old FW SOV system. if missions actually spawned in only enemy systems. i garrente you mission farmer would see a dramatic decline as the risk gets WAY higher

Not really. You can hit Tier 3 while controlling less than half the warzone, that's plenty of systems to spread out in.

To fix missions, you need to make them more difficult, not herd the 3 month old bomber alts into a smaller area. That would just cause them to offensive plex in the other warzone instead, which would just outsource your problems to my warzone. Me no likey that solution.

yes really. thats a perfect solution. herding them into enemy territory is exactly what will increase risk in mission running. the whole ******* point of having higher tier means its harder to maintain. not that its free isk train in friendly systems you switched over.

dont like militia cross plexing? tough. nobody does it needs to be eliminated end of story.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#77 - 2014-04-21 16:54:43 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
if they just fixed the mission spawn system. its still using the old FW SOV system. if missions actually spawned in only enemy systems. i garrente you mission farmer would see a dramatic decline as the risk gets WAY higher

Not really. You can hit Tier 3 while controlling less than half the warzone, that's plenty of systems to spread out in.

To fix missions, you need to make them more difficult, not herd the 3 month old bomber alts into a smaller area. That would just cause them to offensive plex in the other warzone instead, which would just outsource your problems to my warzone. Me no likey that solution.

yes really. thats a perfect solution. herding them into enemy territory is exactly what will increase risk in mission running. the whole ******* point of having higher tier means its harder to maintain. not that its free isk train in friendly systems you switched over.

dont like militia cross plexing? tough. nobody does it needs to be eliminated end of story.

And here I was thinking that actually requiring significant isk/SP investment to complete L4s would be a better solution than cramming everyone into a few systems. Silly me. I should always think of how to make these bomber alts into easier targets for our 31337 Amarr PvPers to farm instead of actually balancing things across the factions.

And yes, cross-militia plexing needs to go.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#78 - 2014-04-21 17:01:11 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
if they just fixed the mission spawn system. its still using the old FW SOV system. if missions actually spawned in only enemy systems. i garrente you mission farmer would see a dramatic decline as the risk gets WAY higher

Not really. You can hit Tier 3 while controlling less than half the warzone, that's plenty of systems to spread out in.

To fix missions, you need to make them more difficult, not herd the 3 month old bomber alts into a smaller area. That would just cause them to offensive plex in the other warzone instead, which would just outsource your problems to my warzone. Me no likey that solution.

yes really. thats a perfect solution. herding them into enemy territory is exactly what will increase risk in mission running. the whole ******* point of having higher tier means its harder to maintain. not that its free isk train in friendly systems you switched over.

dont like militia cross plexing? tough. nobody does it needs to be eliminated end of story.

And here I was thinking that actually requiring significant isk/SP investment to complete L4s would be a better solution than cramming everyone into a few systems. Silly me. I should always think of how to make these bomber alts into easier targets for our 31337 Amarr PvPers to farm instead of actually balancing things across the factions.

And yes, cross-militia plexing needs to go.

what you basically just told us is that yes that is a good solution pocket because then i would actually be at risk of loosing my bomber alt. and then i MIGHT have to plex against my own militia because thats the only place i can get risk free isk.

and yes the missions do need to get tougher completely agree. and there also needs to be a way for the enemy militia to deny the mission. having the enemys come in and kill a target do deny the LP would do much to stop farming. otherwise what the hell is the point in having the missions pop up on overview. no reason.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#79 - 2014-04-21 17:16:39 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
what you basically just told us is that yes that is a good solution pocket because then i would actually be at risk of loosing my bomber alt. and then i MIGHT have to plex against my own militia because thats the only place i can get risk free isk.

and yes the missions do need to get tougher completely agree. and there also needs to be a way for the enemy militia to deny the mission. having the enemys come in and kill a target do deny the LP would do much to stop farming. otherwise what the hell is the point in having the missions pop up on overview. no reason.

Actually, what I said was:

- FW as LP ATM is the root of the problem.
- L4s in Cal / Min / Amarr are too easy to farm due to low SP requirements and terrible design.
- Forcing missions to spawn in "enemy" systems doesn't fix the problem, since you can maintain high tier without holding a majority of the warzone.
- Moreover, savvy players could sculpt the warzone to place systems available for missions close to mission hubs, thus increasing LP/hour by decreasing travel time.
- In addition, forcing them to be fishes in a barrel won't make them throw themselves willingly into your waiting webs and scrams, they'll just come annoy me in their stabbed cloaking T1 frigates instead if things get really bad.

So, your solution doesn't solve the problem, and doesn't seriously impact their incomes, yet makes my playing experience far worse. So your solution isn't a solution by any measure I can identify.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#80 - 2014-04-21 17:48:32 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
what you basically just told us is that yes that is a good solution pocket because then i would actually be at risk of loosing my bomber alt. and then i MIGHT have to plex against my own militia because thats the only place i can get risk free isk.

and yes the missions do need to get tougher completely agree. and there also needs to be a way for the enemy militia to deny the mission. having the enemys come in and kill a target do deny the LP would do much to stop farming. otherwise what the hell is the point in having the missions pop up on overview. no reason.

Actually, what I said was:

- FW as LP ATM is the root of the problem.
- L4s in Cal / Min / Amarr are too easy to farm due to low SP requirements and terrible design.
- Forcing missions to spawn in "enemy" systems doesn't fix the problem, since you can maintain high tier without holding a majority of the warzone.
- Moreover, savvy players could sculpt the warzone to place systems available for missions close to mission hubs, thus increasing LP/hour by decreasing travel time.
- In addition, forcing them to be fishes in a barrel won't make them throw themselves willingly into your waiting webs and scrams, they'll just come annoy me in their stabbed cloaking T1 frigates instead if things get really bad.

So, your solution doesn't solve the problem, and doesn't seriously impact their incomes, yet makes my playing experience far worse. So your solution isn't a solution by any measure I can identify.

doesnt seriously impact their incomes. what are you smoking because i want some. your playing experience far worse because youd have to pvp? in fw? say it aint so....

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro