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C2 / C3 / C4 advice

Author
Kyle Dokran
Capital Fusion.
Pandemic Horde
#1 - 2014-04-18 13:27:19 UTC
Hey all;

I am considering moving in to a WH, i have a fairly good understanding of mechanics etc, however i am uncertain as the the class of WH to move in to or would best suit us, so i would appreciate some advice.

We will probably be 3-6 ppl (real people), all with alts.

What we would like:

- some PvP ability within the WHs but also PvP outside
- fairly easy access to K-Space as required
- Ability to make good isk to fund the PvP form the WH/Statics

My thoughts:

C2 with C2 or C3/LS static - will this kind of WH bring decent isk opportunities?, i know it will likely offer good PvP but im concerned about can we make enough isk to support ourselves?

C3/LS static - my concern with this is no WH static, again i think the PvP side is ok but do you feel a C2 with a static WH is better than a C3 without for isk making?

C4 - Havent heard anyone say anything good about these tbh?

C5 - We dont really want to move in to a C5 as we prob wont have the capital capacity to defend it, or if we did we would be concerned of heavy fleets rolling in to evict etc if we did have limited capital capacity?

Any advice you experienced WH fellows could offer would be appreciated.

Thanks

King Aires
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#2 - 2014-04-18 14:01:40 UTC
There must be a 100 topics on this but I will bite.

C2- Great statics. Live in the C2 and use your statics to farm. Great statics include whatever you can run. Always easy to get back to K-Space. Lots of pvp from roamers. I have never run into an empty C2

C3- Used to be my personal favorite. Probably best isk/hr solo character in WH's. Most are occupied. Get a LS static or else you will have everyone and their Heron in your hole or get a NS static if you want to run 0.0 sites or pvp.

C4- People say these are the best for noob corps, I don't see it that way. C4's are kinda like the ultimate adventure for dual boxers or PVE casual players. There are no statics to K-space. Probably have to go through 2-4 WHs to get out so stock up on 3 months of fuel at all times. Massive isk/hr but you need a dual box alt so per character not the best. A lot of empty C4s

If you want PVP and wasy access to k-space along with some isk making I would recommend you a C3 w/NS static.
Nash MacAllister
Anomalous Existence
Spatial Instability
#3 - 2014-04-18 14:51:03 UTC
If your folks are consistently online together, a C2 with static HS/C4 is a great fit. 2 People is all that is needed to run C4 sites (with alts monitoring any wh connections) and 150 - 300 mil ISK/hr is not at all hard to achieve. C4 is also easy to roll (Y683 2bil wh) great for PVP if you take the time to scan down the chain. And obviously static HS makes logistics and movement a breeze. Also easy to roll a 2 bil B274. While a static C3 is great for ISK, it is equally great for getting ganked as folks tend to solo run sites which leads to complacency and subsequent explosions (and not of the Sleeper variety). Lol. But proper positioning of scouts can make the C3 manageable as well.

Whatever you do, remember that for C4 and below, the best ISK comes from farming your static, not your home. Even HS diving out your HS static, looking for wh to farm, is better and more consistent income.

Yes, if you have to ask yourself the question, just assume we are watching you...

Bane Nucleus
Assault and Battery
Transmission Lost
#4 - 2014-04-18 15:11:54 UTC
I would even try a c2 with a null/c5 static. Running some null sites along with the c5 gas/relics/data would be a great source of isk. Also, being in a c2 still gives you plenty of access to lower wh space connections and k-space

No trolling please

Ghenghis Kralj
POS Party
Ember Sands
#5 - 2014-04-18 15:25:33 UTC
C2 - can get a little busy with all the other c2 kholes that you are likely to get. Lots of pvp potential. Especially ganking hisec divers.

C3 - no ISK flow from static and probably need a LS or NS in order for it to be empty; however, easy to manage pve. and pvp can be had in static or kholes. Probably easiest solo hole. I don't think it's the best for groups. Easiest

C4 - can be nice, but is not easy for new chars (sub ~8 million). as far as pve goes, most spawns and orbits are 80+ and peak incoming DPS can be 1300-1500 dps. Easiest kspace connection for logistics and best for pvp would be a c3 or c2 static. c4 static would give you lots of pve opportunity, but logistics become a nightmare. and pvp might be difficult to find near home. You would need to risk about a billion for pve with each site paying out about 80-100 million (should take 15-25 minutes).

C5 - it's not as bad as you think. Most won't commit to actually evicting you. downside is that you would need at least a 10 billion ISK fleet to escalate sites fully and maximize ISK (600-800 million ISK). Some of the big groups will expect/demand a sacrifice of sorts. Not sure why. You could look into a c5-c4 or c5-c3? Maybe a few months down the line, but I would consider it now. Lived in a c5-c2 and loved it. those statics also had very manageable mass (1 billion) so it was really easy to rage roll for pvp, logistics, etc.
King Aires
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#6 - 2014-04-18 15:26:06 UTC
Bane Nucleus wrote:
I would even try a c2 with a null/c5 static. Running some null sites along with the c5 gas/relics/data would be a great source of isk. Also, being in a c2 still gives you plenty of access to lower wh space connections and k-space



Yeah a C2 NS/C5 would be pretty good for what he wants... but his group will run into some very well organized C5 corps and get wasted.

Also I would never recommend someone live in a C2 with a C4 static for pvp... C4 people like to be loners, they are hard to sort out chains to even find someone and unless you want to sit at their pos cloaked waiting for them to warp you aren't going to pvp anything.
Ghenghis Kralj
POS Party
Ember Sands
#7 - 2014-04-18 15:26:32 UTC
Bane Nucleus wrote:
I would even try a c2 with a null/c5 static. Running some null sites along with the c5 gas/relics/data would be a great source of isk. Also, being in a c2 still gives you plenty of access to lower wh space connections and k-space


pretty good advice right there
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
#8 - 2014-04-18 15:27:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Rall Mekin
Bane Nucleus wrote:
I would even try a c2 with a null/c5 static. Running some null sites along with the c5 gas/relics/data would be a great source of isk. Also, being in a c2 still gives you plenty of access to lower wh space connections and k-space


Confirming this will be the next big thing. I am serious--with the ability to ninja relic/data sites and do static sites in marauders, its definitely a good farming situation.
Ghenghis Kralj
POS Party
Ember Sands
#9 - 2014-04-18 15:29:42 UTC
King Aires wrote:
Yeah a C2 NS/C5 would be pretty good for what he wants... but his group will run into some very well organized C5 corps and get wasted.

Also I would never recommend someone live in a C2 with a C4 static for pvp... C4 people like to be loners, they are hard to sort out chains to even find someone and unless you want to sit at their pos cloaked waiting for them to warp you aren't going to pvp anything.


If by "very well organized", you mean large in numbers...then yes.

I'd say most wormhole groups, by nature, are pretty unorganized. Wormholes tend to attract more of the cowboy types rather than career marine officer.
King Aires
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#10 - 2014-04-18 15:29:54 UTC
Rall Mekin wrote:
Bane Nucleus wrote:
I would even try a c2 with a null/c5 static. Running some null sites along with the c5 gas/relics/data would be a great source of isk. Also, being in a c2 still gives you plenty of access to lower wh space connections and k-space


Confirming this will be the next big thing. I am serious--with the ability to ninja relic/data sites and do static sites in marauders, its definitely a good farming situation.



PVP corps living out of C2's is nothing new. But I think you knew that already Big smile

Probably his best bet for income/pvp/ease of access
King Aires
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#11 - 2014-04-18 15:31:02 UTC
Ghenghis Kralj wrote:
King Aires wrote:
Yeah a C2 NS/C5 would be pretty good for what he wants... but his group will run into some very well organized C5 corps and get wasted.

Also I would never recommend someone live in a C2 with a C4 static for pvp... C4 people like to be loners, they are hard to sort out chains to even find someone and unless you want to sit at their pos cloaked waiting for them to warp you aren't going to pvp anything.


If by "very well organized", you mean large in numbers...then yes.

I'd say most wormhole groups, by nature, are pretty unorganized. Wormholes tend to attract more of the cowboy types rather than career marine officer.



I know what alliance you are in, so I am very confused as to your underestimation of strong pvp from C5 groups. C5 is probably the highest rate of highskilled pvp players in WHs.
Ashimat
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-04-18 15:31:35 UTC
What Nash and Bane wrote, basically.

It's the static that define the system more then anything else. A C4/C4 is a totally different beast than a C4/C2. You need to consider what kind of statics that your intended static usually have, because that will decide what kind of chains you typically get. If you, as Nash suggested, learn how to roll your statics you can control your environment and basically decide what kind of system you are getting access to.

This is particularly true if your static is a C2 since there usually are so many connecting wormholes in C2s, they will provide you with C1s, C2s, C4 as well as HS and LS exits. A number of them even have nullsec statics. Not satisfied with your current C2? - just roll it.

Another thing that people often miss is what kind of incomming WHs different systems usually attract. Anyone living in a C5 know that you don't need a static nullsec, you get plenty of K162s from null as it is. Sure, you cant roll it looking for a specific region, but maybe that's not a problem? C4s usually are really bad at this, most exciting you normally see is another C4, here you are much more dependant on your static to provide interesting chains.

Got blog: http://thecloakedones.blogspot.com

King Aires
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#13 - 2014-04-18 15:34:11 UTC
Ashimat wrote:
What Nash and Bane wrote, basically.

It's the static that define the system more then anything else. A C4/C4 is a totally different beast than a C4/C2. You need to consider what kind of statics that your intended static usually have, because that will decide what kind of chains you typically get. If you, as Nash suggested, learn how to roll your statics you can control your environment and basically decide what kind of system you are getting access to.

This is particularly true if your static is a C2 since there usually are so many connecting wormholes in C2s, they will provide you with C1s, C2s, C4 as well as HS and LS exits. A number of them even have nullsec statics. Not satisfied with your current C2? - just roll it.

Another thing that people often miss is what kind of incomming WHs different systems usually attract. Anyone living in a C5 know that you don't need a static nullsec, you get plenty of K162s from null as it is. Sure, you cant roll it looking for a specific region, but maybe that's not a problem? C4s usually are really bad at this, most exciting you normally see is another C4, here you are much more dependant on your static to provide interesting chains.



Living in a C4/C4 myself and I can agree that C4 statics are terrible for what he wants. Basically I spend my time scanning out several systems deep for a C1-3 to get out, but often I end up in a 3 chain C4-C4 connection.
Ghenghis Kralj
POS Party
Ember Sands
#14 - 2014-04-18 15:48:18 UTC
Oh don't get me wrong. I am not underestimating any individual player. I think the individuals are mostly good pvpers. My opinion is that the independent nature of the individual can make it difficult to organize. And instead, we get a very fluid corp picture in wh space. Didn't mean to digress. My point is that it shouldn't eliminate a c5 for him and his group.
King Aires
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#15 - 2014-04-18 15:53:44 UTC
Ghenghis Kralj wrote:
Oh don't get me wrong. I am not underestimating any individual player. I think the individuals are mostly good pvpers. My opinion is that the independent nature of the individual can make it difficult to organize. And instead, we get a very fluid corp picture in wh space. Didn't mean to digress. My point is that it shouldn't eliminate a c5 for him and his group.


Right, C5/NS is a top contender for what he wants. However the nature of C3's being a cross roads for k162 he could get a NS C3 and have much more inside income and outside 0.0 sites with all the pvp he can eat.

NS statics are pretty nice from what I am told because it completely negates the organized warning systems of 0.0 intel.

Anyways, a C2 or C3 is what he wants with a NS exit.
Karen Galeo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-04-18 18:16:23 UTC
King Aires wrote:



Living in a C4/C4 myself and I can agree that C4 statics are terrible for what he wants. Basically I spend my time scanning out several systems deep for a C1-3 to get out, but often I end up in a 3 chain C4-C4 connection.


Yea. C5/C4 on this end. We get a lot of long chains of 4's and 5's; it's not hard to find someone eventually, but they might be two or three holes down the chain.

For the OP, I'd suggest a C2/C3, a C2/C5, or a C2/C2. C2/C2 will have the least income, but the most pew. C2/C3 would be the easiest income, but you'd be mostly dependent on connections to your home system for chains. C2/C5 would let you roll into escalation fleets. :D

Author of the Karen 162 blog.

Joran Sothos
H.E.L.P.e.R
#17 - 2014-04-18 18:22:53 UTC
I haven't seen it mentioned, so I'll bite and that is don't forget your PI potential. A lot of isk can be made making the right kind of PI and it takes very little effort.
Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
#18 - 2014-04-18 23:06:30 UTC
C4s are for living in peace.
C2s are full of pro leet pvper
C3s static to low sec
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#19 - 2014-04-19 04:46:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrew Jester
Move to C6, enjoy eviction, have Ragnarok make thread about how they're so pr0

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Adoris Nolen
Sama Guild
#20 - 2014-04-19 06:02:15 UTC
C4's are the absolute worst. Don't move into one.
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