Player Features and Ideas Discussion

tbh - part of the scam is also by making large buy orders with a ridiculously large 'buy' volume - in this case the UI needs to be cleaned up, but I think the dev's are on that

sudden memory of an inspirational idea - those orders that can't be filled (as the buyer does not, at that time, have the isk to cover) do not appear in the market UI, until the buyer once again has the isk to cover even a single unit of purchase (be that a single module or several thousand modules, whatever they've setup the minimum buy quantity as)

i've never fallen for a margin trading scam, even before i figured out that the skill existed.

did try to source the required materials from elsewhere at a normal price once when i was a bright eyed newbie, but i managed to figure out with already existing intelligence tools that it was a scam and tried (obviously failed) to turn it over on the scammer.

only new players and greedy idiots fall for this, i care very little for the last.

seems a lot more effective then changing a perfectly usefull mechanic

the only changes to margin trading i would ever support are visibility changes (temporarily hide margin traded orders that cannot be filled by wallet balance) or some sort of other way to implement the current mechanism but have it be more clear to the uninformed new players among us.

The only change to margin trading skill I mentioned was adding a mechanic whereby traders could earn standings.

I wouldn't support hiding buy orders using margin trading. As several posters have hit me over the head with, legitimate traders also use margin trading

Hi-lighting those orders in a different color to let people know that there possibly may not be enough money in the account would be preferable so that the legitimate traders would not be punished because of the actions of a few bad apples.

I think you guys are under estimating the number of database calls this would require.

I do agree that this would fix the problem, but it would cause a ridiculous amount of lag as every time anyone's wallet changed, the server would have to do a table join and compare every market order they have with their wallet.

That doesnt seem like much, but you think there is lag on the jita market now?

Again, why is margin trading a problem in the first place???

If you base your trading on a single buy order you're a terrible trader - your fault.

If you trade items with almost non-existant volume history you know you're taking a huge risk - again, your decision.

If someone goes through the hassle of putting up multiple 'fake' buy and sell orders in multiple trade hubs for months (in order to artifically create a volume history), I'd call it more a market manipulation than a scam and man, they deserve to make some profit after all that ISK and time invested.

You don't need to check all of them, all you need is 1 extra transaction per wallet transaction.
Get the highest active value from a persons list of market orders.

Plus 1 additional transaction based on the outcome:
If the margin trading Isk value is higher then wallet.
Mark orders with higher value then wallet as inactive.

However, it does not have to be to EVERY wallet transactions, only decreases would have the effect.
And I'm sure CCP can filter out what Wallet transactions need to be checked without me guessing.

Lag in Jita is from a gazzillion people moving around while the market, chat, user lists and so on really is no problem.

Nobody said Margin Trading is a problem. Being unable to do anything about Margin Trading scams is the problem. I agree with you that attempting to manipulate a particular market in your favor is simply 1 of the uses of the skill and usually takes weeks or months to work, and somebody working at it that hard should enjoy a reward. In poker it's called bluffing. In poker, bluffing has risk. In Eve, if someone calls your bluff, you pack up your chips and go home. All you've lost is the fees for placing the order.
Also, usually when someone is trying to manipulate a particular market, it's usually only by a few percentage points, not orders of magnitude one way or another. ie: trying to get trit to move up 2isk, not 20.

Adding the Margin Call skill gives people a chance to call a bluff, if they recognize it for that. It also gives time for a trader to correct a mistake instead of automatically failing an order.

For the few of you who can't offer anything more to the discussion than "don't be greedy, stupid or new" , the exit is

Actually, I half fell for the scam once when I was a wee lad. Someone came in local in Dodixie advertising a contract lamenting how they didn't have the isk to take advantage of a great deal on micro proton smartbombs. I could see it was a scam. Long story short, went about 60 or 70 jumps to buy them at the real price. Went back to Dodixie, said "I have him now", pressed sell and went "DAFUQ?!?" Didn't know about the skill Margin Trading.

TBH, I'm no trader. If I had to sit in a station watching for wallet blinks all day, by the 2nd day I'd be in a rifter in Goon space screaming "I LOVE -A-!!! Long Live Red Alliance!! till someone put me out of my misery. I just buy what I need and what I don't need usually ends up collecting dust in my hangar which is why I have something like 60 or 70 ships I haven't flown in...forever.

No my biggest issue with the whole market trading scam is that mostly the ones who fall for it are noobs who don't have the experience to recognize it and are the ones who can least afford to lose isk. I give away isk to help noobs at times. Have I been taken advantage of? Undoubtedly. Do I care? No because I know some of the people I've helped have really needed it. And I'm not looking for an "attaboy!" It's just something I do sometimes. That's what the new skill is about. It doesn't eliminate the scam but it does level the playing field a little. I think I added something of value for traders as well.

I seriously doubt CCP will consider adding this but one never knows.