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Crime & Punishment

 
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Gankology, Highsec and EVE: View from an Anti-Ganker

Author
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2014-04-15 04:42:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
The one thing I find ironic however.

So what?

You mention you are the ire and bane of suicide gankers. You have 82 kills over the last 10 months which 70% of them are catalyst. A total kill value of 1.4 Billion isk (We can be this accurate since Code API's their losses and kills. The code has been around for longer then 10 months which bring in to question you were one of the first to see James 315 movement and sprang into action. I would also question your statement that you disrupted a gank as concord popped them You would have had more then 1 kill for the entire 2014.

Your total kill worth is not even 1% of what the Code kills over a month.

All I ask from the ANti-Ganing crowd is Context... You keep posting small kills without giving context about what was killed in the process. Congrats, you killed a catalyst, did you prevent them from doing what they intended no? No.

I see guys in AG Channel posting a kill with concord in it but never mention that the same Catalyst just popped a 233mil Ship and maybe few hundred mill pod.

Now leaving glaringly large holes in your story and lack of abilities you seem to have aside I will move on to the Ant-Ganking crowd itself, specially those that are part of of the Ant-Ganking Channel.

You guys are poison, rude, and ineffective.

I said rude.. why?

I have never been insulted or verbally assaulted as I have been in that Channel. I find it absolutely amazing how heavy the air in that channel is of contempt for others. Normally I don't mind the insults but some of them has been so bad I had to log petitions due to the nature of the personal attacks. Which is why you have not seen those guys in the channel for the past month.

I say Poison.. why?

Your falsehood, your lack of ability and knowledge will poison the mind of new players. There is a remarkable difference between the new players in your channel and those from Monks and myself BU channel. Our guys are expressing their fun their gratitude for guidance and always busy with something new and exciting helping where we can. In the AG channel I have never met a more miserable bunch new players. The are ill informed, given into misconceptions, those in the channel that give "advice" lack the knowledge themselves. When I send the person a mail telling him what he is saying he is wrong and explaining how it works it is said in channel I am grieving people with mails.

One of the new players guys in that channel was very vocal about the type of person I might be in that channel, based off what others in that channel told. It took 1 war and several convo for him to realize I have helped him more with advice and fitting to better protect himself in that 3 days then 2 months of sitting in that channel. He told me he realized how poison the air in that channel is and it was ruining his game experience. He close the AG channel and is now enjoying his game play asking me advice as he goes along.

I say Ineffective.. why?

Your entire post is one example and my very first part of my post. You guys lack the ability to work together.

I don't have corps members but I have no issue to drop what I am doing and quickly assisting a new player or a group of players achieve a goal. You guys are ineffective because you lack the ability and trust within each other to actually work together to achieve something. You prefer grand standing about a few catalyst kills even if the target worth billions more was popped. You prefer grand standing even about "look, I killed a catalyst when it ganked somebody" even though he would have died to concord anyway.

Everybody in that channel pretends to be a leader in their field they talk about their combat ability but says nothing in that channel and never logs on when I wardec them. Ask the Lil Gangril what he did when he was boasting about how good he is. 5 minutes after I wardecced him he left corp. I could mention many more who talk the same big game but wont lift a finger to help the corps I wardecced.

That is the type of people you are dealing with in AG. Talkers

I don't really understand the reason for your post but you have prolly done more harm to your so called anti ganking movement by posting this drivel since most people here are relatively smart. This is not the AG Channel after all.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk

Luwc
EISENWORKS Inc
#22 - 2014-04-15 06:26:48 UTC
"Anti-Ganker"

please just call yourself carebear so we know what its about....

what a waste of time.

Didn't even read lol.

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif

I'm So Pretty
Doomheim
#23 - 2014-04-15 06:40:05 UTC
Luwc wrote:
"Anti-Ganker"

please just call yourself carebear so we know what its about....

what a waste of time.

Didn't even read lol.

Better to be a carebear than a member of the worst FW alliance in history.
Maxmillian Rokatansky
Doomheim
#24 - 2014-04-15 06:49:51 UTC
Mr Kane, I belive the reason Gangrel dropped corp in the manner he did was to prove a point.
It may have been suggested to him that it is a valid tactic when wardeced to shed corp and reform it again in the name of isk efficiency.
This precedent was set by James 315 himself and was featured in his blog.
Another CODE representative, Mr Bebop Rhubarb something, posted about this very thing recently as well.
Here is the link:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4425497#post4425497
If a tactic is good enough for the self proclaimed supreme leader of hi-sec then it should be good enough for the rest of us.
loyalanon
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#25 - 2014-04-15 07:00:59 UTC
Cannibal Kane is 100% right.

I'm not good with words but what said pretty much sums up anti-ganking.
I'm So Pretty
Doomheim
#26 - 2014-04-15 07:01:21 UTC
@OP
I'll begin this post by saying I do appreciate your respect for the emergent gameplay that comes from gankplay. Whether I agree with you point by point is irrelevant; most gankers are glad to have folks like you around and prefer your anti-tears to the usual tears that pour our way.

The anti-ganking movement - while commendable - is severely limited in their maximum potential and thus even in theory cannot have as great an affect as you are claiming/hoping. As mentioned before even the ganking movement can only target a small fraction of players within a respectable length of time. The anti-ganking movement can only target a small fraction of a small fraction of players by comparison. Combating ganking through combat is therefore unfeasible.

The correct way to combat ganking is through knowledge. This is why Gevlon Goblin is commonly considered to have had the greatest influence on miners. His vicious campaigns - consisting of mass-scale ganking and information spreading - through constellation after constellation forced the majority of the entire high-sec mining community into EHP fit vessels. The willingness of players to fight against someone they respected caused the rapid increase in anti-ganking movements. The spread of knowledge is the single greatest tool in the anti-gankers arsenal.

The italicized part above brings me to my next response:


@Cannibal Kane
I would like to address the points you made in regards to anti-gankers mistreating you in chat and their lack of will to fight back against your wardecs. As mentioned above, players were willing to suit up against Gevlon Goblin because many of them respected what he was doing. Gevlon never mistreated his victims, never griefed them and never trolled them.

The same cannot be said for the majority of the ganking community. Most will berate their victims, treat them with a lack of respect, and judge them for their style of play. As such the anti-ganking community is largely looking to reduce the fun of the gankers. Since most gankers would welcome the emergent gameplay of a wardec battle, the anti-gankers generally choose to retreat. It is a matter of not wanting to play video games with players that can't show a basic level of respect. While I do not believe this applies to all gankers - you seem respectable enough - it applies to enough of them for the generalization to stick.

As a personal example, a few months back I used to mine quite heavily. There was a group of players ganking in our constellation, roleplaying as the crew from "Robin Hood". Their roleplay was always for fun and they never disrespected any players. As a result they were eventually welcomed by the community. When they'd enter the system, the "combat guys" would ship up and be willing to fight back. They would even have frigate duels against eachother, gankers vs. anti-gankers, with "gf" being distributed in local after close matches.

Until the ganking community stops being a griefing community primarily, the anti-gankers rightfully so should focus on anti-fun gameplay instead of fun emerging gameplay.


@Maxmillian Rokatansky
Are we talking about The Conference Elite? If so, I completely agree! Quite possibly the least intelligent group of players I've come across in EVE. I think what happens is people apply to CODE. and they take an IQ test as part of the application process. If they score below 80, they are invited to join The Conference Elite. Big smile

-
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2014-04-15 07:03:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Maxmillian Rokatansky wrote:
Mr Kane, I belive the reason Gangrel dropped corp in the manner he did was to prove a point.
It may have been suggested to him that it is a valid tactic when wardeced to shed corp and reform it again in the name of isk efficiency.
This precedent was set by James 315 himself and was featured in his blog.
Another CODE representative, Mr Bebop Rhubarb something, posted about this very thing recently as well.
Here is the link:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4425497#post4425497
If a tactic is good enough for the self proclaimed supreme leader of hi-sec then it should be good enough for the rest of us.


That does not bug me.

The difference however is James does not go around telling people how well he can kill people. People dec him purely because they don't like him. Which is fair.

Lil Gangrel and many like him says one thing but does the complete other. Dont chest beat if you run at the first site of combat. Like the code they really could care less about being wardecced. They are already valid targets and can be shot at. They suicide gank.

Once again I ask you.. CONTEXT.

If you left corp if I wardecced you I would have said nothing about it. I would have just cracked a smile and moved on to my next target. Why? Because you did not make yourself out to be something you are. If a miner leaves corp after being war decced that is fair and within his right to do so. I wardecced the corp that say they will kill all just to prove a point. They are more bark than bite.

@ The NPC player.

I don't troll, nor am I disrespectful to anybody EVER. I state my business and move, I can be direct however which might rub people the wrong way.

And the only people I pointed towards with their lack of fighting are those stating they want to kill everybody like me in the game. I provide them that opportunity at my cost and they close corp. I do not expect any of the other corps that don't say as much to attack me which is why I don't mention them.

At the same time in your very post where you mention general respect towards people you then go and insult the general intelligence of another group of people. Double Standards much? Which is your right to do since you doing it from a NPC alt which shows how much you think about your own opinions. The only reason to do so is because you know you have no conviction to stand by it and your only goal is to troll.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk

loyalanon
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#28 - 2014-04-15 07:13:22 UTC
I'm So Pretty wrote:
Luwc wrote:
"Anti-Ganker"

please just call yourself carebear so we know what its about....

what a waste of time.

Didn't even read lol.

Better to be a carebear than a member of the worst FW alliance in history.


I find it amazing you post on an npc character and not your main.

And quick to insult anyone that doesn't agree with you.

412nv Yaken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-04-15 08:06:10 UTC
I'm So Pretty wrote:

Are we talking about The Conference Elite? If so, I completely agree! Quite possibly the least intelligent group of players I've come across in EVE. I think what happens is people apply to CODE. and they take an IQ test as part of the application process. If they score below 80, they are invited to join The Conference Elite. Big smile
-


I lold, most likely u have been #REKT by us, then u cried in local and got trolled in return and are now butthurt. Fact is we are the best corp in code and only take the best. Solo players kill more that many many low/null alliances combined! And that's on their own.

When u get down to it that's what makes so many people mad, that they will never be as elite as us.

A True Champion of High Security Space

Azov Rassau
The Hornets Cartel
The Marmite Collective
#30 - 2014-04-15 10:03:58 UTC
Good morning/night (depending on where you come from). Some responses:

I too know that I exaggerate a little bit. The first part could be considered as a "not-extremely-serious" RP counter-production, and many repliers failed to see that (and came up with the bingo responses including "james 315" and "permit").

Nicolas Dupre: Thank you for that detailed answer and additional clarification. As the thread name suggests, this is a view from an anti-ganker/miner, not a regular PvPer. Therefore it might have some wrong points too. But you cannot deny how much they love pod killmails, and there are times when you grow tired of seeing some people posting, full of immaturity, their Venture/Covetor/Pod mails in channels that have nothing to do with Crime and Punishment.
I know that some of my gank examples are costly ones, but I think we've had enough of seeing the same exact ship gank another same ship. Suicide Ganking isn't (and shouldn't be) all about Catalyst vs Retriever.
It would be great to see CODE. more involved in freighter ganking. Once they get good in looting those wrecks, I am sure they know how profitable it can be.

loyal anon: If I seeked attention, I would publish this in General Discussion with 6000-words long posts. The forums are a place for discussion and expression, and you fail to see that.

loyalanon wrote:
you also failed to point out our success -
[…]
We fail one gank, how many are successful, I wonder if OP will answer that.

Wrong. I believe I answered that:
Azov Rassau wrote:
There is no denying it: such fleet will be a lot closer to achieving a successful gank.




What a scene. Is that screenshot from the same day? If so, I am pretty sure it is taken in the late night, after you switched to the superior ECCM Taloses, which is exactly what I want.
loyalanon wrote:
you jam one catalyst - oh no.

A properly fit ECM ship can jam up to 7-8 Catalysts, which means significant DPS loss for you, which is why ECCM is important.


loyalanon wrote:
Also Id like to point out that the OP has never undocked to attempt to stop us and we are all blocked from communicating with him, so to me it sounds like you are afraid of dealing with us, yet try to understand us as you are you will never be on our level.

This is hilarious, you do realize that I was not even constantly present in Isanamo local that night, right? Highsec is full of other criminals, and you are not the only suicide ganker.

Jonah Gravenstein: Thanks for that link. Problem is, the more CONCORD gets buffed, the less gankers & anti-gankers have fun.

The fact that CCP listens to the risk-free carebears is the risk that we're facing today.

Be the change you want to see in Highsec.

Anti-Ganking Fun: www.gankerjamming.com

loyalanon
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#31 - 2014-04-15 10:08:40 UTC
Dude just stop. You are embarrassing yourself.

Bumsicle Wedgie
Doomheim
#32 - 2014-04-15 10:42:20 UTC
Azov Rassau wrote:


I too know that I exaggerate a little bit.



Word.

Y'know, as much as it grates on me to say it, props to you for being that into the game to spend that amount of time writing all that stuff above that I didn't read.
loyalanon
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#33 - 2014-04-15 10:53:16 UTC
I'm still waiting for OP to compose himself after getting wrecked by Cannibal Kane. LolLolCool
Bumsicle Wedgie
Doomheim
#34 - 2014-04-15 11:03:38 UTC
Also managing to illicit a lengthy response from Kane deserves a +1.

Did you touch the hair? I suspect a waft of your hot air may have disturbed his bangs.
Dreadchain
Lavateinn
#35 - 2014-04-15 11:12:24 UTC
I don't know why the OP is getting so much hate in here. He's far above the rest of the AG community, and I believe he's being unfairly bunched up with the rest of the incoherent gravel who are trying to whore on concordmails, camp stations and smacktalk in local.

His inexperience shines through his post, but he's definately got the right philosophies behind him. If he had more pvp experience, he would be a worthwhile foe in the field of highsec battle.

Unfortunately, this is generally the best anti-gankers have to offer. I can count the proficient pvpers in their ranks with my fingers. Those who know what they are doing aren't willing to teach the rest, probably due to the anti-social nature these communities tend to have.

www.minerbumping.com

Wulfgar WarHammer
Unrustled
#36 - 2014-04-15 12:47:24 UTC
I like the mining channel
Kristopher Rocancourt
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2014-04-15 13:31:49 UTC
did not read all of OP drivel.
Im guessing it is "i am butthurt i got ganxed and have a plan that will fail"

http://killalliance.co.uk/tears/tears-holeysheet/

Balshem Rozenzweig
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2014-04-15 13:45:26 UTC
Kristopher Rocancourt wrote:
did not read all of OP drivel.
Im guessing it is "i am butthurt i got ganxed and have a plan that will fail"


not really. He's more like trying to be anti-James315. He's called inexperienced or naive (cba to check the facts) but it's a good read actually. I mean - just look at it. It's at least elaborative.

I would be more impressed if he's point was to blow a catalyst before the concord came, but again - how feasible could it be? As someone pointed - anti-gank opportunities are much more rare than gank ones.

So... it's just another guy creating content and putting some RP goals for other people to follow. He's also giving away ideas you might not like but it's still a way to pass the time pleasurably.

"NUTS!!!" - general McAuliffe

Solecist Project
#39 - 2014-04-15 13:48:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Wow, what a REMARKABLE coincidence!

We should have a talk! :D

I'm exactly what you are looking for! :D

(and tbh you're a day late)

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
#40 - 2014-04-15 14:03:13 UTC
Maxmillian Rokatansky wrote:
Mr Kane, I belive the reason Gangrel dropped corp in the manner he did was to prove a point.
It may have been suggested to him that it is a valid tactic when wardeced to shed corp and reform it again in the name of isk efficiency.
This precedent was set by James 315 himself and was featured in his blog.
Another CODE representative, Mr Bebop Rhubarb something, posted about this very thing recently as well.
Here is the link:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4425497#post4425497
If a tactic is good enough for the self proclaimed supreme leader of hi-sec then it should be good enough for the rest of us.


Incorrect. Carebear corps were doing it before James. IIRC it used to be an exploit to do that, until carebears cried to CCP to make it legal. Also IIRC James does it hoping those same carebears will petition him for doing it (which they do) and get it changed back to being an exploit, which would be the ultimate in carebear self-ownage.

Believe me, nothing would make the high sec content creators happier than not being able to drop corp during a wardec, or having the wardec follow people that drop until the war ends.