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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#381 - 2014-04-14 22:44:22 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Still a little concerned that the bonuses for lesser drones (small, med for rattlesnake, and small for gila) have not been implemented or carried over.

The rattlesnake can at least fit full flights of them so not such a problem, but still a loss. Really on the Rattlesnake it is more OcD than anything.Cool

The Gila however will only be able to field 4 lights, plus it has lost the bonus to light drones. The new drone stats will help some, but This does make it significantly more vulnerable to small fast ships in both Pve and Pvp.Shocked

Please CCP rise, take this into account and give a bonus to lights on the Gila and lights and mediums on the Rattlesnake.
Possibly you intend to do this but are waiting for feedback?
There is now feedback.Smile

The general opinion is positive (theres always exceptions who hate change) but the issue mentioned above is concerning and fixing it will take nothing away from your otherwise excellent changes or make them more powerful than you have made them.

Tl;dr give appropriate bonus back to balance light drones on Gila..
(and if you are feeling generous on the Rattlesnake too.)


How about this.

Reduce the role bonus on all guritas ships by 50% bonus so for the snake your looking at 225% bonus to drone hp and damage.

What I would then do is add 10% to drone damage and hp into the galente ship bonus.

Then add the missile bonus to the role.

Then add 5mb to the gila.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#382 - 2014-04-14 22:47:15 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
If you drop it to 6 turrets, then no mid slot or low slot should be added.
The Mach is currently 1 slot higher than nearly all the other pirate BS. This should go away if they gain a larger DPS buff per turret & only 6 turrets. I.E. Turret Symmetry is fine, but it shouldn't be used as an excuse to buff the mach with another slot & identical DPS.

CCP Rise has already offered an explanation, but the Bhaalgorn and Nightmare get a turret bonus similar to Marauders, the Rattlesnake has drones and the Nestor has the extra logistics aspect. The suggestion was to remove a high slot and give it another mid slot instead, but barring that if it were reduced to 6 turrets and the ROF adjusted to compensate it should retain the extra high slot as a utility slot. I'm also fine with just giving it an 8th turret and be done with it.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#383 - 2014-04-14 22:47:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
MeBiatch wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Still a little concerned that the bonuses for lesser drones (small, med for rattlesnake, and small for gila) have not been implemented or carried over.

The rattlesnake can at least fit full flights of them so not such a problem, but still a loss. Really on the Rattlesnake it is more OcD than anything.Cool

The Gila however will only be able to field 4 lights, plus it has lost the bonus to light drones. The new drone stats will help some, but This does make it significantly more vulnerable to small fast ships in both Pve and Pvp.Shocked

Please CCP rise, take this into account and give a bonus to lights on the Gila and lights and mediums on the Rattlesnake.
Possibly you intend to do this but are waiting for feedback?
There is now feedback.Smile

The general opinion is positive (theres always exceptions who hate change) but the issue mentioned above is concerning and fixing it will take nothing away from your otherwise excellent changes or make them more powerful than you have made them.

Tl;dr give appropriate bonus back to balance light drones on Gila..
(and if you are feeling generous on the Rattlesnake too.)


How about this.

Reduce the role bonus on all guritas ships by 50% bonus so for the snake your looking at 225% bonus to drone hp and damage.

What I would then do is add 10% to drone damage and hp into the galente ship bonus.

Then add the missile bonus to the role.

Then add 5mb to the gila.
Splitting the bonus is actually a pretty decent buff. And I'm not gonna lie, I kinda hoped for a bit of a drone DPS buff from the snake, but it didn't pan out.

Edit: With the idea of a new pirate faction being floated around I'm now even more concerned about the place of the Guristas line long term. They have the fact that they are the closest thing to a missile race going for them now, but are being passed up in terms of drone flexibility by recent Gallente changes and even further this balance pass.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#384 - 2014-04-14 22:54:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
While I agree that having seven lopsided turrets on the Mach is unsightly and quite an annoying turn-off, I don't think saying "move a high to a mid' is going to get any results.

Instead, just reduce the turrets to six, roll the seventh turret's damage into the damage bonus (not the RoF, please, artillery users and people who care about ammo consumption play EVE too) and then reduce the fittings accordingly without moving any slots.

Two utility highs sounds spectacular to me, and presents much fewer balancing ramifications than an additional mid or low.
SubStandard Rin
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#385 - 2014-04-14 22:54:35 UTC
I dont like the rattlesnake the issue in having is split dammage bonus
7.5 efficent heavy/sentry drone
7.5 efficent torp/Cruise

I would rather have it leaning one way or another

And please increase dronebay I would like to Carry spare ones.
i can only Carry. 2 sentry 2 heavy 5 light With the change

Campared to stat i use now.
5 sentry
5 heavy
5 medium
5 light
5 salvage
5 ewar

Im losing drone flexibility. And dont like it
I dont mind losing some dps to downscale to mediums
but not beeing able to limits My playstyle
Besides switching drones is always a dps penalty

So please increase dronebay On both gila and rattlesnake

Scath Bererund
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#386 - 2014-04-14 22:56:46 UTC
given the NPC tendency to aggro drones now spare drones really are a must in PVE ships. which seems to be the biggest use of faction battleships
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#387 - 2014-04-14 22:56:47 UTC
SubStandard Rin wrote:

And please increase dronebay I would like to Carry spare ones.
i can only Carry. 2 sentry 2 heavy 5 light With the change


The Mobile Depot called. It wanted me to tell you that you can load up your drone bay with one type, carry the other type in your cargo hold, switch them out at will without docking up, and stop complaining.
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#388 - 2014-04-14 22:57:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayallah
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
While I agree that having seven lopsided turrets on the Mach is unsightly and quite an annoying turn-off, I don't think saying "move a high to a mid' is going to get any results.

Instead, just reduce the turrets to six, roll the seventh turret's damage into the damage bonus (not the RoF, please, artillery users and people who care about ammo consumption play EVE too) and then reduce the fittings accordingly without moving any slots.

Two utility highs sounds spectacular to me, and presents much fewer balancing ramifications than an additional mid or low.


This. Hell, even go -1 high to not have 2 utilities No additional mid is required Rise/art department

It is just a long standing annoyance of a lot of people, certainly not game changing but if it can be fixed, isn't now the time to bring it up and do it?

Edit: to clarify, I think the vast majority are happy already with the Mach. We just want a cherry on top of the deal if it isn't anything to you. But if slot wizardry is required to make it work? Definitely have it in the damage bonus instead. Artillery and Autocannon Machariels would benefit rather than Artillery fits being semi-nerved if it was folded into ROF.

And if you do change the symmetry? It won't buff its ability to bump freighters \o/
No reason for bears to T_T

(I know I am reaching here)

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#389 - 2014-04-14 23:00:43 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
SubStandard Rin wrote:

And please increase dronebay I would like to Carry spare ones.
i can only Carry. 2 sentry 2 heavy 5 light With the change


The Mobile Depot called. It wanted me to tell you that you can load up your drone bay with one type, carry the other type in your cargo hold, switch them out at will without docking up, and stop complaining.

You heard it here! Dronebays allowing for flexibility are a thing of the past. No more annoyance with picking through different sets of drones in the bay on the fly. No, now you have the awesome convenience of deploying sitting next to a mobile depot to accessing fitting services every time you want something resembling the ship you once had!

Welcome to the future of drone flexibility.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#390 - 2014-04-14 23:16:50 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Two utility highs sounds spectacular to me, and presents much fewer balancing ramifications than an additional mid or low.

This is actually a fairly good compromise with the utility highs. The rate of fire change works best because it's almost identical DPS and it puts the Machariel more in line with the other Pirate battleships and their role bonuses. I can live with the targeting change and signature bloom, but the agility and align time really need to remain unchanged. This is the updated proposal I'm putting forward for consideration (changes from OP highlighted in bold):

MACHARIEL
Role Bonus: 37.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire
Slot layout: 8H, 5M, 7L; 6(-1) turrets, 0 launchers
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 161 / .084 / 94680000 / 11.10

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#391 - 2014-04-14 23:18:58 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
[quote=Alvatore DiMarco]The rate of fire change works best because it's almost identical DPS and it puts the Machariel more in line with the other Pirate battleships and their role bonuses.


Yes, but folding into the ROF bonus as opposed to the Damage bonus will be a shadow nerf to the alpha of artillery fits.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Ebag Trescientas
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#392 - 2014-04-14 23:22:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Ebag Trescientas
MeBiatch wrote:
How about this.

Reduce the role bonus on all guritas ships by 50% bonus so for the snake your looking at 225% bonus to drone hp and damage.

What I would then do is add 10% to drone damage and hp into the galente ship bonus.

Then add the missile bonus to the role.


This.


Having 2 utility high slots was extremely useful for drone sniping fits (as others have mentioned). Either adding another high slot (utility), or a small drone control bonus would better allow for damage projection at long ranges. You could move the missile bonus to the role bonus, add drone control range bonus to Gallente (5km per level), leave damage as is. That would not force you to train Gallente BS to 5 in order to have full damage from drones, but would allow for more flexibility in fits.

The Gallente role bonus being missile looks almost as odd as the seventh turret slot....

Want Pyfa, but with more features?

Pyfa.fit
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#393 - 2014-04-14 23:29:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Ayallah wrote:
Yes, but folding into the ROF bonus as opposed to the Damage bonus will be a shadow nerf to the alpha of artillery fits.

7 launchers x 1.25 / .75 = 11.66 effective launchers
6 launchers x 1.25 / .625 = 12 effective launchers (+rate of fire)
6 launchers x 1.5 / .75 = 12 effective launchers (+damage)

I'm not opposed to the suggestion to change the damage instead, and the shadow artillery alpha nerf is a valid point (hadn't considered that). We'd just need to reverse the role bonuses (which should be doable). How does this sound - is this a solid counterproposal for CCP Rise that everyone can get behind?
...

MACHARIEL
Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire
Role Bonus: 50% bonus to Large Projectile damage
Slot layout: 8H, 5M, 7L; 6(-1) turrets, 0 launchers
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 161 / .084 / 94680000 / 11.10

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#394 - 2014-04-14 23:46:53 UTC
CCP Rise :

Can you address how the AB speed bonus works on the NM Hull ? As in, are we looking at a Core X NM doing over 1000m/s, ~150m/s faster than a MWD ? Or am I calculating this wrong ?

Don't get me wrong, if my AB NM goes faster than my current MWD NM, I'm not gonna cry lol.. Just seems a little odd. (and I couldn't be bothered scanning the whole of the frig/cruiser threads to see if it was addressed there..)
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#395 - 2014-04-14 23:47:05 UTC
Glad I bought up a bunch of Rattlesnake BPCs.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Ambassador Spock
Doomheim
#396 - 2014-04-14 23:51:45 UTC
SubStandard Rin wrote:
And please increase dronebay I would like to Carry spare ones.
i can only Carry. 2 sentry 2 heavy 5 light With the change


The new Rattler has 175 mbit/sec, so you can carry 3 flights of heavies/sentries plus 1 flight of lights - exactly like you can now...

As a Rattler pilot (first pirate BS I ever bought, first pirate BS I ever lost, and though I've owned & flown all but the Nestor, the Rattler is the only one I currently have), I am very happy about the new changes. The only bit that'll be a pain will be swapping out launchers for drone links using the mobile depot, which due to weapon grouping and such can be annoying. I'm already used to it though, as I generally fit 3 drone links most of the time unless I know I can brawl close-in.

 --  - Ambassador Spock

"Vulcans never bluff."
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#397 - 2014-04-15 00:02:25 UTC
Ambassador Spock wrote:
SubStandard Rin wrote:
And please increase dronebay I would like to Carry spare ones.
i can only Carry. 2 sentry 2 heavy 5 light With the change


The new Rattler has 175 mbit/sec, so you can carry 3 flights of heavies/sentries plus 1 flight of lights - exactly like you can now...

Sure, but what if you were previously carrying two flights of heavies/sentries, two flights of lights, and two flights of mediums? Could easily do that before, can't do it anymore.
Edwin McAlister
Empire Hooligans
#398 - 2014-04-15 00:19:42 UTC
hmmmm, has anyone crunched the numbers with a rattlesnake w/ rapid heavy launchers??

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#399 - 2014-04-15 00:24:01 UTC
Ambassador Spock wrote:
SubStandard Rin wrote:
And please increase dronebay I would like to Carry spare ones.
i can only Carry. 2 sentry 2 heavy 5 light With the change


The new Rattler has 175 mbit/sec, so you can carry 3 flights of heavies/sentries plus 1 flight of lights - exactly like you can now...

As a Rattler pilot (first pirate BS I ever bought, first pirate BS I ever lost, and though I've owned & flown all but the Nestor, the Rattler is the only one I currently have), I am very happy about the new changes. The only bit that'll be a pain will be swapping out launchers for drone links using the mobile depot, which due to weapon grouping and such can be annoying. I'm already used to it though, as I generally fit 3 drone links most of the time unless I know I can brawl close-in.
Dropping 1 flight of heavies now allows:
6 flights of lights or
3 flights of mediums or
1 flight of mediums and 4 flights of lights or
2 flights of mediums and 2 flights of lights

None of these will be possible while having 2 heavy/sentry flights now. The only thing being maintained regarding flexibility is a single configuration.
Mariner6
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#400 - 2014-04-15 00:33:08 UTC
I've been dreading this post. I really expected to read from CCP Rise that the Vindi had some of that "Fixing strangenesses in the attributes by lowering PG some"

I'm greatly relieved. Thanks CCP. +1 to all changes.


(Now please go back and add that "strangenesses" back to the Vigilant's grid.