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Discussion about Cloaky Camping

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Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-04-12 17:06:02 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
"Remove Local" is seriously one of the stupidest ideas, ever.
Maybe, but it does solve the AFK-cloaker “problem” completely. Think of it as a reflection of stupid the supposed problem is. Blink


How is AFK Cloaking a problem?
A cloaked ship isn't hurting you. Especially when the player isn't even at the controls.

Removing local doesn't solve anything, because now you don't even know the ship is there, at all. It just makes you oblivious.
If you want no info from local chat, then go live in W-Space. Have fun getting jumped on, with no warning, and no way to prepare. Because, seriously..... if you're scared of a cloaky camper, then you probably don't have much in the way of situational awareness.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2014-04-12 17:08:12 UTC
Local is a vital tool for all sorts of things. You're playing an MMO, not a single player game. Local must stay. Forever.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Butzewutze
Doomheim
#23 - 2014-04-12 17:11:53 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Local is a vital tool for all sorts of things. You're playing an MMO, not a single player game. Local must stay. Forever.


Do you have a good reason why its needed and should not be (for example) replaced with a different tool that doesnt give insta-intel without any work?
Teyr Schmitt
An Errant Venture
#24 - 2014-04-12 17:12:06 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Local is a vital tool for all sorts of things. You're playing an MMO, not a single player game. Local must stay. Forever.


It's actually not that bad without local.

Just pop some combat probes, keep an eye on D-scan, and watch for new Ships Sigs to show up.

Or you could, you know, post alt scouts on gates/Wormholes, and pay attention to who is coming in in what ship.
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2014-04-12 17:15:26 UTC
Teyr Schmitt wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Local is a vital tool for all sorts of things. You're playing an MMO, not a single player game. Local must stay. Forever.


It's actually not that bad without local.

Just pop some combat probes, keep an eye on D-scan, and watch for new Ships Sigs to show up.

Or you could, you know, post alt scouts on gates/Wormholes, and pay attention to who is coming in in what ship.


That doesn't make up for the lack of social contact. Are you guys really that scared of human interaction? If so, then stop playing MMO's. End of story.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-04-12 17:16:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarod Garamonde
Butzewutze wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Local is a vital tool for all sorts of things. You're playing an MMO, not a single player game. Local must stay. Forever.


Do you have a good reason why its needed and should not be (for example) replaced with a different tool that doesnt give insta-intel without any work?


Your lack of reading comprehension offends me. My "good reason" was right there in the post you quoted.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Teyr Schmitt
An Errant Venture
#27 - 2014-04-12 17:19:13 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Teyr Schmitt wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Local is a vital tool for all sorts of things. You're playing an MMO, not a single player game. Local must stay. Forever.


It's actually not that bad without local.

Just pop some combat probes, keep an eye on D-scan, and watch for new Ships Sigs to show up.

Or you could, you know, post alt scouts on gates/Wormholes, and pay attention to who is coming in in what ship.


That doesn't make up for the lack of social contact. Are you guys really that scared of human interaction? If so, then stop playing MMO's. End of story.


......you realize that using this system more than one person could be active in any system, be it null, low, or wspace.

And just because I prefer to play an MMO my way does not mean I HAVE to play it your way instead. Especially in a sandbox like EVE.

Don't like it? Wage a war on those who do.

that's a very sandboxy way of doing things.
Domina Trix
McKNOBBLER DRINKING CLAN
#28 - 2014-04-12 17:21:15 UTC
phunkmaster wrote:
Cloaky camping is a valid and vital part of null sec game play, allowing power blocks and alliances to gather intel on systems and on occasion drop in a few ships to fight with. However, it seems like there are characters that will come in to a system, warp off to some location then cloak, then walking away from the computer.

It seems that when this is happening, that the operations in that system come to a halt. People would would like the fights can't, as their target is cloaked, people who would like to do industry and keep building ships can't gather their raw materials, people who are running anomalies or signatures can't, and pretty much no content is available for people in that system.

Eve is a sandbox, and should be played how people like, and stopping others from being able to do what they want is a valid form of gameplay. But, when you have people who come in to your system, cloak up, and walk away, they aren't even playing, they are just griefing.

My suggestion, aside from a general discussion on the gameplay mechanic, how about a method that requires you to actually be playing and at your computer for you to be able to use this play style.

Ever other playstyle that I can think of, I am sure I missed one, requires you to be at your computer at least mostly. Why doesn't sitting cloaked in a system you don't hold sov in, or NPCs don't control, not require you to be at your computer?

What is your feedback on this mechanic?


Working as intended. If you want to sit there in your blue donut mining without escorts then you have to take the gamble whether or not that cloaker is a scout or just someone yanking your chain.

Disruption to resource gathering whether through direct attacks or less direct means such as scaring the gathers off is a valid tactic.

Two of the defining characteristics of a carebear are wanting other players to play the way the carebear wants and whining on the forums for the game to change when they don't. Yet I see more threads on these forums from gankers than I do miners whining about wanting the game changed to suit them.
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-04-12 17:32:11 UTC
I just noticed a glitch in the Matrix.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Josef Djugashvilis
#30 - 2014-04-12 22:22:08 UTC
Oshia Launay wrote:
Getting rid of local in nullsec would help tremendously with this issue. AFK cloakers would become entirely irrelevant.


An AFK cloaker is, by definition, irrelevant.

This is not a signature.
Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#31 - 2014-04-12 22:39:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessica Duranin
Oh, this thread again.

Cloaky camping isn't the problem. There is nothing stopping you from running your sites and doing industry, etc.... especially not the cloaky.
In w-space you always expect that some cloaky is watching you and just keep on doing your stuff, because that cloaky won't kill you. The fleet in the next system will, but you can see them coming.

The real problem are cynos.

EDIT:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:

If you want no info from local chat, then go live in W-Space. Have fun getting jumped on, with no warning, and no way to prepare.

uhm... this is incorrect.
There is plenty of warning. It takes just a little bit more effort to gain that intel than just starring at local.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#32 - 2014-04-12 22:51:39 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
How is AFK Cloaking a problem?
A cloaked ship isn't hurting you. Especially when the player isn't even at the controls.
The quotation marks are not decoration — they are there for a reason and carries semantic meaning…

Quote:
Removing local doesn't solve anything, because now you don't even know the ship is there, at all. It just makes you oblivious.
…and thus it solves the “problem” that always ends up being what the complainers are actually complaining about: that they see non-blues and are “forced to” (read: can't be arsed to think up any other response than) dock up. Remove the stimulus and they will no longer have to do that. P
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2014-04-12 23:12:35 UTC
phunkmaster wrote:
kes88 wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Your ideas are new and exciting and in the wrong place.

Obligatory:



That topic is locked.

And in any case, OP just went on about people being able to use their own playstyles - what about afk cloakers isn't valid? If you can do it in game, then why not? This is precisely the same argument used to argue against high sec gankers. It's a viable form of gameplay. Null sec shouldn't be risk free right?

Stating my opinion, and only that, AFK isn't a playstyle, it's a grief style. High-sec ganking, is fine, you have to be at your computer to do it, and you risk concord.

Null should not be risk free, it should be riskier than any other area of play other than wormholes.

Can you explain to me why cloaky camping is a valid play style if you don't even have to be at your computer. How come someone can cloak up in a system and go get a beer at the pub, and they don't have any risk?


This is an excellent argument. People who are docked should be under the same restrictions as well as they aren't really playing if they're docked up and tabbed into another window or afk, so how about a method that ejects all your ships out of your hangar if you aren't actively playing?

Null should not be risk free, and being AFK and docked up is griefing against the cloaked player who is at his computer clocked up and waiting for you to undock.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#34 - 2014-04-12 23:36:02 UTC
Is it just me, or does anyone else think that a Kaiser Roll is more tasty if you heat it in the microwave than the toaster oven?

Mr Epeen Cool
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2014-04-13 00:00:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarod Garamonde
Teyr Schmitt wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Teyr Schmitt wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Local is a vital tool for all sorts of things. You're playing an MMO, not a single player game. Local must stay. Forever.


It's actually not that bad without local.

Just pop some combat probes, keep an eye on D-scan, and watch for new Ships Sigs to show up.

Or you could, you know, post alt scouts on gates/Wormholes, and pay attention to who is coming in in what ship.


That doesn't make up for the lack of social contact. Are you guys really that scared of human interaction? If so, then stop playing MMO's. End of story.


......you realize that using this system more than one person could be active in any system, be it null, low, or wspace.

And just because I prefer to play an MMO my way does not mean I HAVE to play it your way instead. Especially in a sandbox like EVE.

Don't like it? Wage a war on those who do.

that's a very sandboxy way of doing things.


You are, in essence, asking that everyone be forced to play it your way. Hypocrisy isn't cool, mate.
Leaving local chat where it is is not forcing anyone to do anything. It's sitting there, waiting for you to use it, if you choose to. You aren't being penalized for not using the channel, and it being there is not a personal insult to your playstyle. Stop being stupid.

YOU can ignore local and choose not to communicate with other players. Nobody is saying you shouldn't be allowed to. I'm saying that removing local would be taking something vital away from the majority of players that DO want to play an MMO with other people.

Your comprehension skills are for crap, and you are only seeing the world from your own opinion. That's also way uncool.
If you want to play a single player game, go play a ruddy single player game, and stop begging CCP to make everyone else play it your way. Or, adapt and realize that local chat is here to stay, CCP is never going to remove it, and there's nothing you can do about it. It annoys most of the playerbase that actually reads the forums, when you choads say this dumb crap.

Just because you are offended, doesn't mean you're in the right.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Gwar Anzomi
Corporation of industrious Latvian potatoe farmers
#36 - 2014-04-13 00:09:41 UTC
phunkmaster wrote:
Cloaky camping is a valid and vital part of null sec game play, allowing power blocks and alliances to gather intel on systems and on occasion drop in a few ships to fight with. However, it seems like there are characters that will come in to a system, warp off to some location then cloak, then walking away from the computer.

It seems that when this is happening, that the operations in that system come to a halt. People would would like the fights can't, as their target is cloaked, people who would like to do industry and keep building ships can't gather their raw materials, people who are running anomalies or signatures can't, and pretty much no content is available for people in that system.

Eve is a sandbox, and should be played how people like, and stopping others from being able to do what they want is a valid form of gameplay. But, when you have people who come in to your system, cloak up, and walk away, they aren't even playing, they are just griefing.

My suggestion, aside from a general discussion on the gameplay mechanic, how about a method that requires you to actually be playing and at your computer for you to be able to use this play style.

Ever other playstyle that I can think of, I am sure I missed one, requires you to be at your computer at least mostly. Why doesn't sitting cloaked in a system you don't hold sov in, or NPCs don't control, not require you to be at your computer?

What is your feedback on this mechanic?


You have just described WH space (as I'm sure has been mentioned to you endless times before you chose to beat this particular drum). As many alliances can and do operate successfully in WH space I suggest the problem lies in one of two possible areas. Your inability to use dscan or your inability to operate as an alliance.

I'll give you a hint, nobody cares about afk cloakers in WH space, yet they are still there ALL. THE. TIME. WATCHING. YOU!! And yet we don't lose our **** on the forums every other day about it.
Gwar Anzomi
Corporation of industrious Latvian potatoe farmers
#37 - 2014-04-13 00:29:01 UTC
GotItFrom Ebay wrote:
Oshia Launay wrote:
Getting rid of local in nullsec would help tremendously with this issue. AFK cloakers would become entirely irrelevant.

At that point a simple "Hey, what's up guys?" in local would probably do. After that, the cloaker might not even have to stay in system.

Or if you really want to shut a system down, deploy some combat probes and just let them sit (of course be sure to come back and retrieve them before their timer runs out).



Same applies to WH space, they don't cry and ask for a separate Sims server everyday. The argument you want to make, is for a second server so you can have consensual content and watch the game die.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#38 - 2014-04-13 01:25:59 UTC
Thread closed for redundancy. And because you asked nicely.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
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