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Level 4 missions with Amarr
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Slan Audeles
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-04-09 12:46:48 UTC

I am a relatively new player still experimenting with lot of different styles of play and types of ships. At some point very soon I am going to need to really commit to some big decisions (armor vs shield tanking, lasers versus missiles versus drones versus guns) . Up until now I have been working on core skills and modestly skilling into different type of ships and trying them out. I have just enough skills to run level 4 in Caldari ships with cruise missiles or Gallente with sentries. I honestly have not really liked the drone centric stuff and I don't think I am going to continue heavily in Gallente right now. I do like the Caldari missile approach, the ability to lay down lots of dmg types and have great range. I also love that I can use all that capacitor for shields and propulsion. It is really easy to build a super strong tank AND have decent DPS. Of course you have to rig for and train for applied dps against smaller ships and still use drones for close frigates, but that is not too bad.

So I recently started running a whole bunch of low level quests and missions to repair some faction damage so trained up into Amarr to have some fun. I really have been liking the Amarr ships, but I have only been working at the cruiser range. I like the fast hits, the easy ammo, fast switching, damage and sexiness of the ships and coolness of lasers. So I ran some numbers in EFT and looked at a ton of fits for different BS (apoc, navy apoc, paladin, etc). Everyone talks about applied vs paper dps but wow, it is very hard to get good numbers out of EFT for Amarr BS mission ships. So I think everyone agrees that Scorch pulse with max range is a good target. I *think* that gives you a 60km range with slots used for sensor boosters. Thats still within the gun range of a *lot* of level 4 mission rats. But even with max skills the paper dps is low with 3 heatsinks. And let's face it "max skills" isn't in my near future. And you need crazy skills to fit the guns and the tank and keep any cap and forget about a MJD, so you need afterburner or a great tank. I am seeing people post fits where you can only run the guns for 4-5 minutes *with a cap booster 800* and like 1 min of armor repair. That's a bit out of my comfort zone since I am a young pilot still nervous about those web/scram situations where you lose your ship. So I either want a strong tank I can run for long enough, or enough range.

So my questions:

Is the applied DPS somehow much better than EFT is showing?

Do you really need so many V skills to fit and run an Amarr BS?

How can you fil a decent tank and decent dps or get mobility and range and deal with cap issues? Do people use 10 cap booster 800 charges on every run? Do they only use the charges when armor repairing?

Is the damage against non Amarr pirates as bad as people say? I would be willing to put up with some amount of dps loss but I would want my mission ship to work all over the galaxy.

Is it even work skilling up into BS IV and heavy energy and getting Scorch so I can "try" it out before deciding?

I guess I am looking for some anecdotal stories from people who love their Amarr BS. And while I understand Paladin might be great.. thats a 75 day train for me anyway and its expensive, so I would like to hear about other Amarr BS options as well.


Thanks!
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#2 - 2014-04-09 13:39:06 UTC
Slan Audeles wrote:


So my questions:

[1]Is the applied DPS somehow much better than EFT is showing?

[2]Do you really need so many V skills to fit and run an Amarr BS?

[3]How can you fil a decent tank and decent dps or get mobility and range and deal with cap issues? Do people use 10 cap booster 800 charges on every run? Do they only use the charges when armor repairing?

[4]Is the damage against non Amarr pirates as bad as people say? I would be willing to put up with some amount of dps loss but I would want my mission ship to work all over the galaxy.

[5]Is it even work skilling up into BS IV and heavy energy and getting Scorch so I can "try" it out before deciding?


1 No. Ur realistic applied dps will be worse than what EFT is showing.

2 No. But def take the hull skill and ur weapon related skills up to at least IV before considering maxing them out. Sharp shooting, gunnery, surgical strike, etc. T2 guns are also nice.

3 No. Cap / tank can just be difficult sometimes for new players. Consider using beams as the further u are from the enemy gun ships, the less dmg they do (outside optimal rng). Older players have the advantages of being able to kill things so quickly that reps don't need to be cycled as often or for as long.

4 amarr shine when running missions in amarr space. If u plan on running missions in several different regions and just want to use one wep system, missiles are prolly the way to go. Projectiles do pretty well except when running missions for caldari. Hybrids are fine running for gallente and caldari.

5 prolly not. But at the end of the day it shouldn't matter much. Lasers are best vs amarr, blood raiders, and sansha, which are mostly found in amarr space. If you dont want to run missions there and don't mind training into a diff wep system, u should prolly do that. On the other hand, if ur not in a hurry to move ur mission running out of amarr, u could always train another wep system later.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#3 - 2014-04-09 14:04:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Slan Audeles wrote:


So my questions:

[1]Is the applied DPS somehow much better than EFT is showing?

[2]Do you really need so many V skills to fit and run an Amarr BS?

[3]How can you fil a decent tank and decent dps or get mobility and range and deal with cap issues? Do people use 10 cap booster 800 charges on every run? Do they only use the charges when armor repairing?

[4]Is the damage against non Amarr pirates as bad as people say? I would be willing to put up with some amount of dps loss but I would want my mission ship to work all over the galaxy.

[5]Is it even work skilling up into BS IV and heavy energy and getting Scorch so I can "try" it out before deciding?


1. nope,

2. no but cap skills are good to have for amarr boats.

3. with cap boosters, and yes, try to use them to run your tank.

4. no, not really but there are better options

5.i used a meta fit apocalypse in gurrista/angel space for 4-5 months , you don't need anything but i would recommend it.

edit:also, have your first like.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2014-04-09 14:19:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Bastion Arzi
iirc an apolcalypse with t2 guns and scorch should hit out to about 52km optimal (62km falloff) with level 3 amarr bs skill, no tracking comps needed.

if your going for an amarr boat id have to recommend the apoc for begginers becuase scorch gives u this 50-60km range even with mediocre skills range.

Having more range generally means needing less tank becuase the enemy will not be able to hit you very well (unless fighting guristas who seem to be able to shoot you no matter where u go)

take out the frigs first from range (but be careful here and check triggers and enemy group aggro mechanics using eve survival) before they get under ur guns (~25km depending on your motion prediction skill)

dont worry about tracking either as when agressed the frigs will usually head in a straight line towards you (as long as they are far enough away should not have high transversal) and anything bigger is easy to hit anyway.

blap away
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#5 - 2014-04-09 16:10:00 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
Slan Audeles wrote:

Is the applied DPS somehow much better than EFT is showing?

Do you really need so many V skills to fit and run an Amarr BS?


Amarr are the highest gun dps race in the game, and probably got some of the biggest heavy hitters at medium to long range in realistic scenarios. It is more like the applied dps of the other races is much worse(falloff dps loss, requires full missile rigging and proper painting or low range of blasters + lacking rail dps and tracking at range etc.). For example a close range turret on a Navy Apoc can hit out to max lock range for fairly high damage and does nearly the same dps as other high end L4 hulls(around 1200 ish), without even having a damage bonus, that's just with base stats and stacking implants and lots of heat sinks.

You don't need everything at 5 but you should work them up once you start flying them, amarr is not as forgiving as other races with fitting, cap and weapon skills, since it will all create kind of a balance at what point you can work with the minimal tank and cap people use.

Slan Audeles wrote:
How can you fit a decent tank and decent dps or get mobility and range and deal with cap issues? Do people use 10 cap booster 800 charges on every run? Do they only use the charges when armor repairing?


If you are good at cap management you can power up even a mwd fitted amarr BS with just 1-2 cap mods and discharge rigs, most people only use the cap booster because they are lazy. Amarr BS normally need to many slots for cap when you overdo it with the tank(what is less punishing on stuff like the domi, maelstrom or raven), and lose most of her effectiveness this way. What you want is a fairly light tank, max dps and a high optimal range, ships fitted in this fashion also have a lot less trouble with the cap and tank, because they can take targets that put pressure on your tank down fairly quick.

Slan Audeles wrote:
Is the damage against non Amarr pirates as bad as people say? I would be willing to put up with some amount of dps loss but I would want my mission ship to work all over the galaxy.


Performance vs non gurista pirate factions is fairly good, you lose a bit of speed vs Angels but it is nowhere close to what most people will tell(basically her pov comes from flying rather cap stable low performance setups).

Slan Audeles wrote:
Is it even work skilling up into BS IV and heavy energy and getting Scorch so I can "try" it out before deciding?


Scorch is vastly overrated for L4(near pure EM damage sucks against most targets, Conflagration on the other hand is your get go ammo in many scenarios to overcome targets with higher EM resists quick), the range on amarr ships comes from fitting Tracking computers and locus rig the hulls, rather from scorch. I flown my Abaddon for like 6 months without T2 guns on a fairly new char and rarely use it in L4s with the navy Apoc.

Slan Audeles wrote:
I guess I am looking for some anecdotal stories from people who love their Amarr BS. And while I understand Paladin might be great.. thats a 75 day train for me anyway and its expensive, so I would like to hear about other Amarr BS options as well.


Well if you need some inspiration how Amarr BS can be utilized in L4:

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1305/Abaddon_L4_Recon_1.mkv
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1402/Navy_Apoc_Angel_Extravaganza.mkv
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1306/New_NAPOC_Smuggler_Interception.mkv

I love Amarr BS, the navy Apoc in particular since last summer, the Paladin not so much any more since the bastion changes.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-04-10 06:52:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Caitlyn Tufy
^ What The Djego said. Also, consider that using Tachyons you sacrifice tracking, but can hit further away with more thermal damage. Against some targets (such as Guristas that also tend to orbit around 50km out), that will perform a lot better than Scorch.

And, as The Djego said, Navy Apoc is an amazing little boat.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#7 - 2014-04-10 07:37:40 UTC
The paladin can get 100km optimal on scorch and close to 35km optimal with conflag. Carry Imp navy Xray for 50km optimal.

Also the reason people use MJD is because NPCs cant shut it down (they don't use scrams, only points) Remember to turn off the MJD in eft as it doesn't accurately show cap usage for typical MJD usage (you don't use it every 3min, just once or twice per room)

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Blitz Apollo
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2014-04-10 08:54:22 UTC
The Djego has got it pretty much spot on. I would however argue that although Scorch does have its flaws, it has A LOT more benefits. If your training T2 pulses, then you will want to be using Scorch. The damage increase at range over say Radio of Infrared is huge.

Go Amarr!
Slan Audeles
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-04-10 17:42:06 UTC
Thanks a lot Djego for taking the time to write up all that information. Funny, but it also implies that I vastly over tank my other mission ships if. I had been told you need a 500 dps tank able to handle burst 700 for level 4 missions. So on my shield ships I have shield boosters and amplifiers and so forth and so on. But when I run the numbers here it looks like if you fit a 3 (maybe 4) slot tank on the Amarr BS you are really looking at a max eff armor hull of 45000 (assuming no armor plate) and a max repair of around 250 or so - and you can't run it for long. And that conflag range isn't *all* that far unless you have a range bonus. So you play in that sweet spot range within your gun range optimal.. but without a prop mod... it seems difficult to get a cap stable 100mn prop + all guns (no repair), so kiting would be a bit challanging.

So are there certain missions you should decline if you are newly into a Apoc fitting a light tank, some gank and possibly no prop mod? (or should I make, a prop mod a priority at least at first) I have been spoiled by 100km cruise missile ganks running a 400 dps tank AND a 100mn afterburner AND a MJD and my tank strength is 70%+ to all resists and thick. And guess what... boring.



The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#10 - 2014-04-10 18:31:23 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
You will probably need a bit more cap and tank early on(it is doable with a lot of experience with L4 even with low SP, but I wouldn't say it is the best choice for a newer player). Basically there is a balance between cap runtime, tank and applied dps, if you increase your dps you can reduce tank and cap runtime(since a active tank is a major cap drain and wrecks don't shoot back). The 500 dps tank number I did gave you in the other thread is from my experience a good point to start from for newer players, since it is mostly save(without situations where you draw full room agro) while not that high that the pilot loses the feel for his cap and tank at all(what is important in my opinion, since you can see the progress in skills, dps and play style over the time and get a good feeling where you could optimize it to your liking later on). Different to caldari missile hulls that can have a fairly good tank and cap without losing to much on the DPS front, amarr laser hulls tend to be a bit more restrictive in that aspect, since many capacitor and tank mods directly compete with range, tackle or damage mods and gearing it more towards the later is very beneficial for efficiency.

From my experience armor tank numbers can be a bit lower than shield tank numbers, since you can most of the time buffer damage better on the armor(more buffer to work with). What is shown in the vids is a 3 slot 200-250 dps armor omni tank, relaying on buffering damage with your armor HP and doing repairs where you don't need to shoot(like warping into the next pocket) or times when you have a bit spare cap to do it. Don't get me wrong the setups shown are fairly tight on the cap, tank and require good skills, cap and agro management to work. Overall they are more a impression about what is doable with Amarr hulls later down the road when you get fluid with the hulls, crystal, cap, tank and range management. I also might admit, while flying all races and having experience with all the faction/pirate hulls, I might be a bit biased towards amarr hulls, since this is what I fly most and probably also like the most in eve(since the mix of high range, good tracking and dps is incredible if you utilize it well and learn to work with the cap restrictions).

This would be a suggestion where to start as a new player with the apoc, 4 slot tank and much better cap(no mwd, T1 guns, less heat sinks) to get started. Outside of angel missions, 2 hardeners + 1 EANM might also be the better choice.

[Apocalypse, Beginner]
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Experimental 100MN Afterburner I
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Energy Locus Coordinator II

Hobgoblin II x5
Imperial Navy Curator x2

Worlds Collide, Blockade and Recon 1/3 probably need a extra tank mod and/or cap mod and you should try to get a feeling for the tank, effective gun ranges, dps and cap with easier mission before you try those with a Amarr hull. However if you continue the skill progression you will notice that things change from hard to doable to easy rather quick, allowing you to utilize more heat sinks, a mwd and more range and lead to a very fluid and mobile game play, what is both fun and very effective if you look for ISK/h.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
#11 - 2014-04-10 19:11:52 UTC
The Djego wrote:

[Apocalypse, Beginner]
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Experimental 100MN Afterburner I
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Energy Locus Coordinator II

Hobgoblin II x5
Imperial Navy Curator x2


I agree to what Djego said. The fit is similar to what I used and it works. The AB is what makes this fit perform, as you can keep it running long enough to burn into range for the high damage ammo. I prefer active hardeners though and would replace the CCC rigs with semiconductor memory cells for a bit more all-on time. I wouldn't use this vs Guristas at all, that is a downside, but rest is doable.

Another note, Core c-type or faction armor reppers (the latter being a tad more cap hungry) repair better, are easier to fit and overheat much better. Easy decision IMO.
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#12 - 2014-04-10 19:38:34 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
Guristas are probably the most annoying enemy in a amarr laser hull.

With sufficient SP and ship selection you have 4 options that work rather well:

1. MWD fitted Navy Apoc with T2 guns and Conflagration, move it in range and melt stuff down.
2. Tachyon fitted Nightmare/Paladin that sports massive non EM damage at medium range(tachyon with multi/xray >>> puls with scorch vs guristas).
3. Abaddon max gank fitted with puls, takes a bit to get it in range but the dps with conflagration melts them fairly quick(even the elite cruisers) and 2 anti kinetic hardeners + the resist bonus lets you shake off her missile dps with ease.
4. Legion with AB and Conflagration, the DPS might not look that good on paper, but you can bring it in range quick, it is fairly resistant to jamming(fitting 1-2 ECCM + ECCM sub system cancels out nearly all jams), has no problems with hitting frigs and can take down elite cruiser at 10-15 km very quick. From my experience the times are fairly similar compared to BS, simply because it make up the lower dps with better application and not spending 40-120 seconds jammed in a mission, unable to shoot stuff.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Slan Audeles
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-04-10 19:43:50 UTC
You guys rock! I am getting excited about this :)
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#14 - 2014-04-11 03:33:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Paikis
I posted this a while ago to someone else looking for guidance. The major decision to be made is the weapon system, rather than the hull. I don't think any of it has changed, so I'm just going to quote myself.

Paikis wrote:
I'd like to second the older players who said once you go Paladin you never look back. That ship is the duck's nuts.

Having said that, here's the advantages and disadvantages to the gunnery weapons systems as I see them:

- Projectiles: They have very short optimal range and very long falloff. This means that in reality, you're often fighting with up to half your paper DPS simply not there due to misses; as you noted yourself, grazes and glances. Fighting in falloff is why. Damage type select ability is good, with only Kinetic proving to be somewhat lacklustre. T2 ammo is all Explosive heavy. Good tracking and the best alpha. 10 second reload time (the longest)

- Railguns (I'll clover Blasters below): The longest range weapons in the game. If you can target it, you can hit it. Tracking is terrible (due to being the longest range weapon system) but you can still do average damage to anything past about 30-50kms. Damage type is restricted to Kinetic/Thermal. 5 second reload time.

- Blasters: Highest paper damage, best tracking, shortest range. If you can get something at your optimal (very short) you will absolutely melt it. Falloff is decent as well, so you can shoot things a little farther out, but as with Projectiles, damage drops sharply past about 50% of your falloff and Blasters don't have as much falloff as projectiles. Damage types restricted to Kinetic/Thermal. 5 second reload time.

- Lasers: The middle of the range. Good damage, ok tracking, good alpha. Their strength lies in their ability to always be shooting at their optimal. Instant reloads mean you can go from sniping at 80kms with scorch to melting faces at 15kms with the click of a button. If you have the correct ammo on hand, you should never see grazes unless something is close enough that you can't track it. Longest optimal range among the short range weapons systems and a semi-oversized long range system (Tachyons). T1 ammo never runs out, T2 and faction ammo does. Damage type limited to EM and Thermal only, with closer range ammo leaning more towards Thermal and longer ranges leaning more towards EM.

Why do I say go lasers if they are mediocre at everything? You can't get the face melting DPS of Blasters, you can't get the huge alpha of Artillery and you can't get the obscene range of Railguns. What good are they?

Blasters can't shoot to 80km, Pulse Lasers can.
Artillery has good alpha, but less DPS and is more prone to wasting damage by massively over-killing a target. Also you can take a nap between shots.
Railguns can't track targets in close and have anemic DPS.

As a laser user, you have 80-90% of the strengths of the other weapon systems but none of their weaknesses.

If you're still keen to try out lasers, I'd recommend the Apocalypse. The downside of course is that you don't really see any weapon system shine until you can fit the T2 version, this is even more so the truth with lasers, as Scorch will rock your world.

Speaking in defence of the other gunnery systems, they too have their strengths and as a general rule, you're going to want to use each system against the pirates that live nearby (i.e hybrids against Serpentis/Guristas, Lasers against Sansha/Blood Raiders and Projectiles against Angels).

EDIT to add: I have all of the gunnery systems trained to V with all of the spec skills at IV and all gunnery support skills at V. They are all useful in certain situations, and it will be up to you to know what those situations are.
Slan Audeles
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2014-04-11 14:21:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Slan Audeles
Thanks for that fit Djego. That was a great place to start in EFT. I changes a few things (active hardeners) and dropped to a few meta 4 variants (like tracking) until I can T2 a couple things but it looks like in 4 days I can fly that pretty safely running the AB and all guns cap stable with 3 minutes of repair running. That should be more than enough. Then it is a matter of bringing everything to T2 level and then pushing the relevant skills as high as I am willing to take them.

Maybe there is a Paladin in my future! By the way on a pally you can drop to two energized membranes + repair because of the huge bastion mode boost. Should a tracking enhancer go into that free spot or another HS? That's only a 7 percent improvement to tracking. Mind you that like 60 days train (T2 guns + BS V + Marauder IV) but its nice to think about.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#16 - 2014-04-11 15:04:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Slan Audeles wrote:
You guys rock! I am getting excited about this :)

just don't get too upset when it explodes on you, cos it will.
that's not a slight against anyone here (or any of the advice), its just part of eve.

Paladin is a good goal to have,
don't forget to have fun with your frigates though

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#17 - 2014-04-11 15:07:40 UTC
Paikis wrote:
I posted this a while ago to someone else looking for guidance. The major decision to be made is the weapon system, rather than the hull. I don't think any of it has changed, so I'm just going to quote myself.


btw stealing your summary of every afk cloker thread ever post. goood job with that made me laugh

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#18 - 2014-04-11 16:35:53 UTC
I know this may be a bit counter-intuitive, and not 'optimal,' but I'm going to throw it out there anyway.

Having been a domi pilot for a long time, when they changed the 'geddons bonuses I figured I'd give it a shot. Using Sentries and Cruise missiles I actually got pretty decent and selectable damage out of the 'geddon. It's a little unconventional but it's doable, and the range of cruises + wardens/bouncers + MJD makes it a nice sniping boat.

Again, you are losing out on one of the ship's bonuses, and it really isn't a stellar PVE hull - but I did enjoy my time screwing around in one.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2014-04-11 21:03:17 UTC
Noxisia Arkana wrote:
I know this may be a bit counter-intuitive, and not 'optimal,' but I'm going to throw it out there anyway.

Having been a domi pilot for a long time, when they changed the 'geddons bonuses I figured I'd give it a shot. Using Sentries and Cruise missiles I actually got pretty decent and selectable damage out of the 'geddon. It's a little unconventional but it's doable, and the range of cruises + wardens/bouncers + MJD makes it a nice sniping boat.

Again, you are losing out on one of the ship's bonuses, and it really isn't a stellar PVE hull - but I did enjoy my time screwing around in one.


You can NOS rats for cap with the geddon, so you can definitely use the other bonus.

I've never done L4s with it, but the geddon clears forsaken hubs faster than any ship smaller than a carrier. Consistent 28-30m ticks in the log with an ESS deployed.