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Introducing FW-style mechanics to null sec sovereignty?

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David Campbell
Gallente Militia War Supplies
#21 - 2014-04-09 21:14:01 UTC
One thing to remember when you say you don't want stabbed frigs running away from pvp in null is why these stab frigs are in low sec in the first place. They are there for the money. If you don't give lp payouts but only use the mechanics of FW, you would get a very different landscape.
It would also be possible to adjust the number of plex to be ran in order to flip a system or the spawn rate of those plex to better suit null sec gameplay.

Bottom line, I'm not saying its a good idea. Just that the same mechanics could yield different results if adjusted carefully.
Muestereate
Minions LLC
#22 - 2014-04-09 21:43:42 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Muestereate wrote:
Actually I've played with the idea of incorporating fw mechanics too. I've had a good amount of fun but only on the front lines but the front lines move. When you stay near the front lines and skip the warpstabs the risk makes the reward worthwhile instead of the other way around. As the timer ticks down, I know I'm about to get a fight. The tension escalates as more and more of your time is invested. I don't play the aggressor often but its a bit of cat and mouse so I like what they did there too. I guess we'd need a warp stab inhibitor deployable and something else to setup the beacons perhaps warp stab could b e built into a beacon that can creep into the moving front. I don't think the little guy will get far at all but he could at least pretend and get thrown a bone once in a while.


I'm not clear on what exactly you are suggesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVo0zU4CjHs


Your a strange one. I think I'll study you.
Muestereate
Minions LLC
#23 - 2014-04-09 21:51:47 UTC
[quote=David Campbell]One thing to remember when you say you don't want stabbed frigs running away from pvp in null is why these stab frigs are in low sec in the first place. They are there for the money. If you don't give lp payouts but only use the mechanics of FW, you would get a very different landscape.
It would also be possible to adjust the number of plex to be ran in order to flip a system or the spawn rate of those plex to better suit null sec gameplay.

Bottom line, I'm not saying its a good idea. Just that the same mechanics could yield different results if adjusted carefully.[/quote

I'm with ya. Its like small scale capture the flag whreas SOv is large scale capture the flag. Its the income streams that determine the action that surrounds them. FW is geared toward the individual, Sov is geared toward the extra large extra alliance blocks. This mechanic could have very different outcomes if the income stream favored corps or alliances rather than individuals.

Of course income stream definition could be expanded to include sov indexing adjustments. Some other corp monetary reward could drive very small blocks. Landscape as you say is much broader than people allow themselves to imagine.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#24 - 2014-04-09 21:59:56 UTC
Muestereate wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Muestereate wrote:
Actually I've played with the idea of incorporating fw mechanics too. I've had a good amount of fun but only on the front lines but the front lines move. When you stay near the front lines and skip the warpstabs the risk makes the reward worthwhile instead of the other way around. As the timer ticks down, I know I'm about to get a fight. The tension escalates as more and more of your time is invested. I don't play the aggressor often but its a bit of cat and mouse so I like what they did there too. I guess we'd need a warp stab inhibitor deployable and something else to setup the beacons perhaps warp stab could b e built into a beacon that can creep into the moving front. I don't think the little guy will get far at all but he could at least pretend and get thrown a bone once in a while.


I'm not clear on what exactly you are suggesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVo0zU4CjHs


Your a strange one. I think I'll study you.


Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2014-04-10 00:28:10 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Carmen Electra wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
The myth that people hate being in big alliances, and feel insignificant, is exactly that: a myth.


This is pretty much dead on in my experience. Except the part about it being a myth.



So the players controlling the 90,000 characters in the SOV holding alliances are somehow so unhappy huh? Yea, that's believable.


considering how often i hear people in null bitching about how boring large fleet ombat, or grinding strutures is, yeah id think so. they dot leave though because living in nullsec makes them "supah 1337" and "winning EVE", so they are trapped.

not saying OP is even close to having a not horrible idea, but null as it is is something to complain about.

When someone of decent size can actually live in null without paying tribute to someone who just happened to get to null first, or dying in a fire of 100x times their number just in supers, THEN we can say null is in a good spot.

Nerf Force Projection
Nerf POS notifications
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#26 - 2014-04-10 00:39:39 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Carmen Electra wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
The myth that people hate being in big alliances, and feel insignificant, is exactly that: a myth.


This is pretty much dead on in my experience. Except the part about it being a myth.



So the players controlling the 90,000 characters in the SOV holding alliances are somehow so unhappy huh? Yea, that's believable.


considering how often i hear people in null bitching about how boring large fleet ombat, or grinding strutures is, yeah id think so. they dot leave though because living in nullsec makes them "supah 1337" and "winning EVE", so they are trapped.

not saying OP is even close to having a not horrible idea, but null as it is is something to complain about.

When someone of decent size can actually live in null without paying tribute to someone who just happened to get to null first, or dying in a fire of 100x times their number just in supers, THEN we can say null is in a good spot.

Nerf Force Projection
Nerf POS notifications


So you are saying that they are trapped by the l33tness of nullsec alliances? Man, talk about first world problemsBig smile

And how many people does it take to be a "descent size"

10 players?
100 players?
1000 players?

How many people does it take?

Things are only impossible until they are not.
KuroVolt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-04-10 00:52:17 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
they dot leave though because living in nullsec makes them "supah 1337" and "winning EVE", so they are trapped.


So you are saying that they are trapped by the l33tness of nullsec alliances?


Confirming I only joined CVA so people would think Im l33t pvp.

BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty.
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#28 - 2014-04-10 01:02:05 UTC
1) This is a new and original idea.

2) This is the correct subforum for new and original ideas.

3) Facwar is facwar, sov is sov. No need to merge two distinct and different things.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2014-04-10 01:52:45 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
This is a terrible idea. Nullsec works fine, the big fleets are part of the attraction of nullsec. Faction wars is pretty much just people flying around aimlessly in frigates and, if they're really brave, cruisers. The really brave ones don't even fit any warp stabs!

Nullsec sov, on the other hand, is about teamwork and the power of friendship. By working together people accomplish great things. Not everyone gets to be "the guy", but everyone's actions contribute to the big picture. The myth that people hate being in big alliances, and feel insignificant, is exactly that: a myth. In my experience, people in big alliances want to see their alliance grow and thrive, and are happy to help.

And sov is not a token given away, it is a hard earned prize. Those alliances have fought long and hard for their space, and keep working hard to retain it against a constant onslaught of invaders. You want to take that away from them to reward the lowest common denominator?

If you can't cut it in nullsec, I suggest you make room for someone who can.


Nullsec atm is about who can form up the most warm bodies for a timer pref in supers or BS. Whilst i don't support making it like FW i do think more action needs to be relavent outside the timers to influence both the EHP of structures and the exact time of the fight. Something that small to medium gangs can do between timers should have relevance.
Being able to hold stuff afk and only show up for the timer is too little effort. Something needs to change to make what happens before and in between timers important to make it harder to hold large swathes of space which isn't even used.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#30 - 2014-04-10 02:02:48 UTC
Silvetica Dian wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
This is a terrible idea. Nullsec works fine, the big fleets are part of the attraction of nullsec. Faction wars is pretty much just people flying around aimlessly in frigates and, if they're really brave, cruisers. The really brave ones don't even fit any warp stabs!

Nullsec sov, on the other hand, is about teamwork and the power of friendship. By working together people accomplish great things. Not everyone gets to be "the guy", but everyone's actions contribute to the big picture. The myth that people hate being in big alliances, and feel insignificant, is exactly that: a myth. In my experience, people in big alliances want to see their alliance grow and thrive, and are happy to help.

And sov is not a token given away, it is a hard earned prize. Those alliances have fought long and hard for their space, and keep working hard to retain it against a constant onslaught of invaders. You want to take that away from them to reward the lowest common denominator?

If you can't cut it in nullsec, I suggest you make room for someone who can.


Nullsec atm is about who can form up the most warm bodies for a timer pref in supers or BS. Whilst i don't support making it like FW i do think more action needs to be relavent outside the timers to influence both the EHP of structures and the exact time of the fight. Something that small to medium gangs can do between timers should have relevance.
Being able to hold stuff afk and only show up for the timer is too little effort. Something needs to change to make what happens before and in between timers important to make it harder to hold large swathes of space which isn't even used.


Why should small and medium gangs be relevant?

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#31 - 2014-04-10 02:12:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Arsine Mayhem
masternerdguy wrote:
This is a terrible idea. Nullsec works fine, the big fleets are part of the attraction of nullsec. Faction wars is pretty much just people flying around aimlessly in frigates and, if they're really brave, cruisers. The really brave ones don't even fit any warp stabs!

Nullsec sov, on the other hand, is about teamwork and the power of friendship. By working together people accomplish great things. Not everyone gets to be "the guy", but everyone's actions contribute to the big picture. The myth that people hate being in big alliances, and feel insignificant, is exactly that: a myth. In my experience, people in big alliances want to see their alliance grow and thrive, and are happy to help.

And sov is not a token given away, it is a hard earned prize. Those alliances have fought long and hard for their space, and keep working hard to retain it against a constant onslaught of invaders. You want to take that away from them to reward the lowest common denominator?

If you can't cut it in nullsec, I suggest you make room for someone who can.


So you're one of the 2 shtlords that want everyone else to suck dic k.

Yea, you wouldn't want it to change.

http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/some-ideas-on-eve/an-influence-sovereignty-system/
Magnus Cortex
Ginger Industrial Solutions
#32 - 2014-04-10 02:52:34 UTC
I'm sure Interceptor roams and small gangs would garner 15,000 viewers on Twitch
Muestereate
Minions LLC
#33 - 2014-04-10 02:56:00 UTC
Miley Cyrus got views too
Garandras
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-04-10 03:46:04 UTC
Not matter what is done with Sov.. it will always be the most warm bodies that win
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2014-04-10 06:22:42 UTC
KuroVolt wrote:
I think it is interesting to note that all the people who said this was a good idea in this thread are infact not in sov holding alliances.

the more interesting is: i have yet to see ONE refreshing idea came from actual 0.0 seccers. Lol
All i see is whine... whine...whine...
And decline of every idea about changes....

But no ideas

Makes me wonder if these people actually want something new and not only get attention

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#36 - 2014-04-10 06:58:53 UTC
The Lost Rabbi wrote:
Here's an idea,

How about we introduce factional warfare mechanics to null sec? Why? Well, FW promotes small-gang gameplay, rewards people who participate in it and doesn't require endless grinding or waiting for lengthy timers.

Instead of focusing 100 man fleets on one or two single objectives, how about we split those fleets up and encourage more objective-based gameplay?



Why? If you like FW mechanics, go to FW. If you like nullsec mechanics, go to nullsec. You also have a choice of playing in highsec and w-space which both have their own unique mechanics.

Eve is diverse game that lets you play however you like. That's what makes it so great.
Seraphi Nephalis
Seraphi Nephalis Corporation
#37 - 2014-04-10 10:05:50 UTC
I haven't yet had the courage or the corp to venture out into nullsec yet. But, I have to ask: Has CCP taken a stance on nullsec recently? Do they like how it's currently working?

"What a sad world we live in, where politeness is mistaken for weakness."  - Usagi Yojimbo
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