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POS rage
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Claud Tiberius
#1 - 2014-04-09 14:39:12 UTC
If a POS has been instructed to shoot at you/your corp because relations, low security status, w/e. Then the pilots when they warp to that POS, should be warned before the POS opens fire, that the POS may be hostile.

A warning such as: "This POS does not acknowledge you as an ally. It may open fire against you without warning!"

Why do we need this?

Because in this case, EVE hasn't taken the time to inform new players about how this mechanics works. The mechanic being, a POS can be instructed to automatically shoot at players, on the orders of another, without warning or aggressive actions.

Sure, you can say the lesson is clear. But the application of this lesson is unacceptable, likeable to a smack in the face.

How are we to expect new players to be aware that a POS will randomly shoot at you? I do not think its acceptable at all to teach them the experience first and then the lesson later. It is also unacceptable to assume that new players will all visit the POS wiki and read about the POS defensive settings.

You may also argue that POS should not warn the pilot, that its defenses are hostile, regardless to who they are. Because this will inform the Pilot that the POS owner regards them as an enemy. That is fair enough, but that is no reason to not give out the warning in the first place. If the warning is displayed at every POS encounter, then the pilot has no way of knowing if the POS is hostile or not (unless it is allied or belonging to the corp) so the Pilot has to assume there is a risk the POS will shoot and still has no idea if the other corp regards them as an enemy. The important thing here is, the warning was given to the new player who visited a hostile POS for the first time.

Even if you don't want to see the warning every time you visit a POS, an easy on/off tick box in the settings can solve that.

Little things like this make EVE a friendly place for new players, who have limited experience, tolerance and knowledge of the game.

Once upon a time the Golem had a Raven hull and it looked good. Then it transformed into a plataduck. The end.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#2 - 2014-04-09 15:33:52 UTC
Claud Tiberius wrote:
to teach them the experience first and then the lesson later.


a base ball player said something very similar



EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#3 - 2014-04-09 15:53:34 UTC
If this gets implemented, we should also have a pop-up whenever you land on grid with another player:

wrote:
This player may open fire against you without warning!

Not that this particular message would make a great deal of sense, since it is itself a warning and therefore its no longer possible for the POS/player to engage you without warning. OMG it's warningception!

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#4 - 2014-04-09 15:56:17 UTC
Wait.. what? Common sense should tell you not to warp to something you do not know what it is/who owns it. I don't need any pop ups warning me that a pos will shoot me. If you don't already know this... you should nto be warping to pos'

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#5 - 2014-04-09 16:00:25 UTC
Claud Tiberius wrote:
Then the pilots when they warp to that POS, should be warned before the POS opens fire, that the POS may be hostile.


Quick and easy guide to "will the POS open fire on me?"

1. Is the pos in lowsec, nullsec, or w-space?
2. Are there guns on the POS?

If you answered "Yes" to both of these questions, then the POS will open fire on you.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-04-09 16:56:14 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Claud Tiberius wrote:
Then the pilots when they warp to that POS, should be warned before the POS opens fire, that the POS may be hostile.


Quick and easy guide to "will the POS open fire on me?"

1. Is the pos in lowsec, nullsec, or w-space?
2. Are there guns on the POS?

If you answered "Yes" to both of these questions, then the POS will open fire on you.

so, never tried, and dont want to for fear of getting a POS/whole-corp concordokkened, but can you force a POS to shoot at a neutral in highsec?
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#7 - 2014-04-09 17:00:05 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Claud Tiberius wrote:
Then the pilots when they warp to that POS, should be warned before the POS opens fire, that the POS may be hostile.


Quick and easy guide to "will the POS open fire on me?"

1. Is the pos in lowsec, nullsec, or w-space?
2. Are there guns on the POS?

If you answered "Yes" to both of these questions, then the POS will open fire on you.

so, never tried, and dont want to for fear of getting a POS/whole-corp concordokkened, but can you force a POS to shoot at a neutral in highsec?

I think they will return fire if you attack them, but CONCORD will destroy you long before the POS can get a target lock on your ship. The POS will not aggro your pod. I have no idea what would happen if a POS Gunner took manual control of a gun and fired on a neutral.

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#8 - 2014-04-09 17:54:18 UTC
We don't really need this warning. EVE is hand-holdy enough in terms of telling players that this tastes bad and that might be toxic and the thing over there will probably turn your skin purple forever.

Warp to a POS and get blown up by it just once. You'll never make the same mistake again.
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#9 - 2014-04-09 18:11:42 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
We don't really need this warning. EVE is hand-holdy enough in terms of telling players that this tastes bad and that might be toxic and the thing over there will probably turn your skin purple forever.

Warp to a POS and get blown up by it just once. You'll never make the same mistake again.

I disagree with that last part. Every now and then, even a friendly POS throws a wobbly and shoots some blues.

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#10 - 2014-04-09 18:31:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Alundil
Velicitia wrote:
Claud Tiberius wrote:
Then the pilots when they warp to that POS, should be warned before the POS opens fire, that the POS may be hostile.


Quick and easy guide to "will the POS open fire on me?"

1. Is the pos in lowsec, nullsec, or w-space?
2. Are there guns on the POS?

If you answered "Yes" to both of these questions, then the POS will open fire on you.
I agree with this.
That said, your comment implies that the noobs in question know how to configure their overview to see these. Or to know how to directional scan to see this.

Good plan, but the execution of that plan will be..... well.... An execution.

:)

I'm right behind you
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#11 - 2014-04-09 19:31:51 UTC

I don't see the need for a warning:

All you need to know is that a POS's will shoot you if configured to do so.

How do you know if the POS will attack you? The same way you know if that pilot that just came into system with you will shoot you.

If in highsec, you don't know, but it is wise to assume they will attack.
If in lowsec, you don't know, but it is wise to assume they will attack.
If in nullsec, you don't know, but it is wise to assume they will attack.

Same goes for POS's.
TehCloud
Guardians of the Dodixie
#12 - 2014-04-09 19:34:34 UTC
So you want a >> WARNING << that says "This POS does not acknowledge you as an ally. It may open fire against you without warning!"


My Condor costs less than that module!
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2014-04-09 21:00:58 UTC
What? You want a standard disclaimer warning that warping to a POS could be a dangerous act? Why? Don't you already know this? What would be the point? The safety system absolutely should not warn you that a POS is hostile toward you. Add it to the safety setting if you like but people will hate its annoying message and tend to turn off the setting...perhaps allowing for more death instead of less. ...or is this maybe what you are wanting to do, make players turn off their safety setting. Idea

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#14 - 2014-04-09 21:56:17 UTC
The bigger question for a new player is how do they even know that warping to a moon warps them to a POS.
Lets step back here and think about this a bit. POS's are not obvious in any of the tutorials. POS's are not obvious when looking at the skill tree. Nothing is easily obvious about where a POS goes or how they are run.

So a new player warping to a moon doesn't even know they are about to warp into someone's fortress possibly.

Some kind of indicator that a Moon has a POS at it or not would be quite a useful thing, without really giving away any significant intel since you have to go to deep scan range to find out what POS type is there still. But at least shows some kind of indicator as well as making it far less tedious when hunting for a free moon.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#15 - 2014-04-09 22:17:05 UTC
I do not want to ever see eve being a friendly place to new players.

Noobs should earn their stripes just like the rest of us.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Claud Tiberius
#16 - 2014-04-10 00:09:10 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Wait.. what? Common sense should tell you not to warp to something you do not know what it is/who owns it. I don't need any pop ups warning me that a pos will shoot me. If you don't already know this... you should nto be warping to pos'


I've warped to many many POS. Only until recently has one tried to kill me. If I had know about the danger maybe I would have followed your advice. But its a bit late now. Thanks for nothing.

Velicitia wrote:
Claud Tiberius wrote:
Then the pilots when they warp to that POS, should be warned before the POS opens fire, that the POS may be hostile.


Quick and easy guide to "will the POS open fire on me?"

1. Is the pos in lowsec, nullsec, or w-space?
2. Are there guns on the POS?

If you answered "Yes" to both of these questions, then the POS will open fire on you.

I'll just mention, there are plenty of POS in high/low/null sec who wont shoot complete strangers.

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I don't see the need for a warning:

All you need to know is that a POS's will shoot you if configured to do so.

How do you know if the POS will attack you? The same way you know if that pilot that just came into system with you will shoot you.

If in highsec, you don't know, but it is wise to assume they will attack.
If in lowsec, you don't know, but it is wise to assume they will attack.
If in nullsec, you don't know, but it is wise to assume they will attack.

Same goes for POS's.

There is a difference. Pilots get plenty of warnings if they go into low/null sec about the dangers there. Pilots learn about the overview in the tutorials. They also learn about agro, attacking people in high sec. But they don't learn anything about POS that can shoot you. No popup no tutorial. Nothing.

Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
I do not want to ever see eve being a friendly place to new players.

Noobs should earn their stripes just like the rest of us.

The stupid way?

Once upon a time the Golem had a Raven hull and it looked good. Then it transformed into a plataduck. The end.
Claud Tiberius
#17 - 2014-04-10 00:12:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Claud Tiberius
Barbara Nichole wrote:
What? You want a standard disclaimer warning that warping to a POS could be a dangerous act? Why? Don't you already know this? What would be the point? The safety system absolutely should not warn you that a POS is hostile toward you. Add it to the safety setting if you like but people will hate its annoying message and tend to turn off the setting...perhaps allowing for more death instead of less. ...or is this maybe what you are wanting to do, make players turn off their safety setting. Idea


I've already stated the reasons why. It would be a pop-up. You would be able to turn it off.

Now tell me, why would it cause more deaths? Do you think it will entice people to get closer to the pos? Big smile

Once upon a time the Golem had a Raven hull and it looked good. Then it transformed into a plataduck. The end.
Nolen Cadmar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2014-04-10 19:41:10 UTC
Nothing wrong with current system. When you enter leave HighSec you should assume that anyone who's not blue will shoot you. Why should a POS be any different. You should always assume it's hostile.

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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#19 - 2014-04-10 22:49:13 UTC
only if I can get this warning before the first time someone tries to suicide gank me, and it's got to be re-settable..... Bear

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#20 - 2014-04-11 05:53:56 UTC
Pos's can be complete psycopaths, one minute your best friend and home from home, the next wielding every imaginable weapon to kill you and eat your liver.

It would be nice to know when Lol

But the POS code would probably turn up it's toes and die, or get even more insane.

Honestly though, a pos is hostile unless you know otherwise.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
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