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God i hope this aint gonna be yet another boring terrible expansion!
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PrettyMuch Always Right
Doomheim
#61 - 2014-04-07 23:35:08 UTC
OP, imagine you have 2 scoops of Mint Chocolate Chip Ice Cream but there's hairs and dirt in it. Would you prefer the store gives you an extra scoop of Cookies n' Cream, or removes the hairs and dirt?
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2014-04-08 00:09:36 UTC
PrettyMuch Always Right wrote:
OP, imagine you have 2 scoops of Mint Chocolate Chip Ice Cream but there's hairs and dirt in it. Would you prefer the store gives you an extra scoop of Cookies n' Cream, or removes the hairs and dirt?

I'd rather they replace the ice cream for a new one, tossing the old one away. That way I can obtain a fresher, more easily edible form of POS management, I mean Ice Cream. After all, no matter how many hairs and dirt are cleaned out, it was still **** coding, i mean dirty ice cream, to begin with.
Tarpedo
Incursionista
#63 - 2014-04-08 00:25:49 UTC
Perhaps if we stop calling these patches "an expansion" CCP will start to create actual expansion?...
Winchester Steele
#64 - 2014-04-08 00:52:10 UTC
Mr R4nd0m wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mr R4nd0m wrote:
Please dont jsut make this yet another tweak and balance expansation, this will be a third in a row! I honestly hope there are big stuff happening because i just cant sub again if there isnt


I am willing to accept a one time transferring of now unneeded valuables that you may wish to be rid of.

CCp damn near died trying to give people "Jesus Features" that they would then go on to forget about (sure, CCPs gonna get around to finishing COSMOS one of these days, i just know it).

What we as a community told them is "fix the game, screw the big stuff" and that's what they've been doing. The game is soooo much better than it was in 2009 because of it. CCP should keep doing that. Oh how easily people forget the past.


Well if thats your opinion then fine. But 3 expansions in a row of it and nothing decent otherwise is not good. and im sorry but when you played for many years, just tweaks doesnt really make the game feel any different or better.



Tiericide was one of the biggest changes ever made to Eve. The complete revitalization of the frig/cruiser line up added incredible gameplay value and is worth at least 10 "Jesus Features" (lol incarna).

Eve is a sandbox. CCP is busy refining the tools we use to play in the sandbox. This is a good thing.

If that doesn't sit well with you, well I've heard that Star Citizen is nothing but "jesus features". . .

...

La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2014-04-08 01:15:43 UTC
Mr R4nd0m wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Mr R4nd0m wrote:


Please stop with that eve growing in numbers BS. Its not and hasnt been for years. Basically its just vets get more accounts to do other stuff, like a super pilot or they are so frigging bored in nullsec they get a fw alt, not new players subbing and staying.

So tell me what happened to all the t2 gangs now? there arent any. its all T1 frigs and cruisers. BS gangs dont exist anymore either.


Truth hurts doesn't it buddy? I'm sure someone will be a long to post the graph of the sub numbers and rub it in your face. The only things you got right was death2allsupercaps and nerf highsec.

E: You are yet another in the encyclopedia of examples why npc alts shouldn't be allowed to post.

E2: V


I am happy to be corrected. Please show me the stats, the graph looks pretty much the same if not less than 5 years ago. Please check my history numb nuts instead of trying that npc alt crap. Its boring.


One of them is literally in the post right below mine hence E2. You are an npc alt which means you are completely worthless and should not be allowed to post, I do not care what explanation you have for this.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#66 - 2014-04-08 02:25:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Felicity Love
Mr R4nd0m wrote:
Please dont just make this yet another tweak and balance expansion, this will be a third in a row! I honestly hope there are big stuff happening because i just cant sub again if there isnt


... T2 Titans... you wanted big.

Or maybe new freighter cans with windows on them so you can ZOOOOOOOOOOM in and see what's floating inside...

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#67 - 2014-04-08 04:15:31 UTC
Mr R4nd0m wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Also; youre arguing what would be knows as "patch content" in other games IS what is "expansion content" in this game?

Yes, Im being simplistic, no Im not arguing against what you said, Im just trying to TLDR it XD

In a sense, yes. More specifically, I'm saying that a lot of the “where's the ‘expansion’?” complaints against the EVE expansions seem to come from a position that only themepark-style consumable content counts, or at least that it is the expected form for expansion content. People are familiar with that style of expansion from games centred on content consumption.

So when they come to EVE, massive content additions like tiercide gets brushed off as mere tweaks and minute content additions like Incarna get hailed as proper expansions. They don't spot the revolution in gameplay that a few critical tweaks can generate, but then again, neither do the devs or the players — it's something that evolves over time so it's perhaps more accurate to see it as an inexperience on the theme-parker's side with the scope of changes that can come out of mere tweaks.


Now this is your opinion, and I have mine. My gamplay and expectations is not the same of yours. So please don't assume that what you want is not what everyone else wants.

Yes the tweaks are good, however you tweak one thing you hurt another. So in some cases the tweaks helped but in other they killed off things. So lets take a look at what these 'tweaks killed'

Incursions - not like they used to be at all, people hardly do them, just because people complained about the ISK. So what. It generated lots of content and lots of people got involved.

Stuff they rebalanced actually killed off a lot of ships. How much do you see BS gangs now? How much do you see command ships on the field after the CS change? How many T2 small/med gangs do you see? How many electronic warfare ships do you see in fleets? (kitsunes etc). You dont. So where they made T1 buffs they killed others. FW is just frig warfare now and some cruisers but that's it.

Solo pvp is pretty much dead now. Unless your willing to multibox 5 characters and hunt around forever. Or as above you have to just fight in frigs!

0.0 no longer have the 30-50 man roaming gangs anymore, its just completely blob warfare, and supers and caps now.

Please dont think that all the tweaks have actually made a huge difference they havent. People also want to see new stuff, new content, new features its been 2 years now and nothing major has been released. Sorry for me as a vet I need to see and have new content to play with, because everything else I have done. I want to do or try something different.

Even if they dont create complete new stuff then start making the current stuff more interesting, more interactive. For example missions are boring as hell, npcs are just pictures with text, why cant we have actual voice overs and interaction? That would make a huge difference to missions.

If you are happy with the tweaks then fine, happy for you. But I am also entitled to want something else also. Im sorry but 2 years of tweaks is imo pretty poor.


Incursions are just as popular, CCP showed the stats in a dinsdale ragenoght about matauders.

t2 frigs and cruisers are widely used, you can even find solo sentinels in low sec with assault frigs and cepters used everywhere and bombers get used everywhere from solo hunting to alliance strat ops.

Small roaming gangs are everywhere in null, we lose several hundred ships to them every month.

Battleships are the primary ship for frontline work in near all powerblocks. They are also good for both small gangs and solo work.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#68 - 2014-04-08 04:22:57 UTC
Themepark players want themepark expansions, what else is new?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#69 - 2014-04-08 04:42:16 UTC
tweak and balance ftw

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2014-04-08 05:00:35 UTC
Time to lower expectations OP

You cannot be disappointed if you think every release is going to be Incarna

Just pretend that is what is coming....when it is not as hideous as that you can rejoice.
Rastafarian God
#71 - 2014-04-08 05:12:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Rastafarian God
I dont recall doing anything added from a true expansion since wormholes came out. To this day I have not ran an incursion, or even used a hacking module.

I have mixed ships up and bought an alt a Mission Kronos when they changed the marauders and started balancing ships though. Was the first time any expansion changed the way I do anything. The patches and small changes have effected me more then the big colorful expansions.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#72 - 2014-04-08 05:43:11 UTC
I concur with most others here. The current lists of features/designs/systems/mechanics, etc., need as much polish and help as they can get. Some are fine, some need some more work, some serious overhauling. Ask any player who has been around the block once or twice and they can give you quite a comprehensive list of items. You may call these "expansion packs" merely over-sized patches and content-less bug and tweak crusades if you wish, it makes no difference in the long run...much of what they bring to Eve is, in many cases, desperately needed.

I honestly hope CCP keeps at it. There are plenty of things CCP can work on already in-game that would make any seasoned player breath a sigh of relief that "it is finally getting looked at". Imagine if hybrids still sucked. Imagine if CCP didn't commit tiericide. Imagine if the U.I. still looked like something from the 90's (it still does in many places, but it is getting better in others at least). I won't claim to agree with everything CCP has done over the last few expansions (hey, no one's perfect), but I can't really disagree with the direction they're going in either.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#73 - 2014-04-08 06:08:55 UTC
Tarpedo wrote:
Perhaps if we stop calling these patches "an expansion" CCP will start to create actual expansion?...

You mean one of those WOW expansions that adds entire new land masses and monsters, new classes & skills


Of course the cost of those land masses is that every single item you own is now useless.
Every single build now needs reworking.
Every single Raid Comp needs a new design.
And doing any of the already existing content becomes useless.

So WOW style expansions actually normally shrink the game, not expand it because they make more & more content obsolete.
EVE tries to keep all content relevant so the addition of a single item which doesn't destroy others is actually a larger expansion than anything WOW or any theme park has ever released because every existing content piece is still relevant.
Prince Kobol
#74 - 2014-04-08 06:24:06 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mr R4nd0m wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Also; youre arguing what would be knows as "patch content" in other games IS what is "expansion content" in this game?

Yes, Im being simplistic, no Im not arguing against what you said, Im just trying to TLDR it XD

In a sense, yes. More specifically, I'm saying that a lot of the “where's the ‘expansion’?” complaints against the EVE expansions seem to come from a position that only themepark-style consumable content counts, or at least that it is the expected form for expansion content. People are familiar with that style of expansion from games centred on content consumption.

So when they come to EVE, massive content additions like tiercide gets brushed off as mere tweaks and minute content additions like Incarna get hailed as proper expansions. They don't spot the revolution in gameplay that a few critical tweaks can generate, but then again, neither do the devs or the players — it's something that evolves over time so it's perhaps more accurate to see it as an inexperience on the theme-parker's side with the scope of changes that can come out of mere tweaks.


Now this is your opinion, and I have mine. My gamplay and expectations is not the same of yours. So please don't assume that what you want is not what everyone else wants.

Yes the tweaks are good, however you tweak one thing you hurt another. So in some cases the tweaks helped but in other they killed off things. So lets take a look at what these 'tweaks killed'

Incursions - not like they used to be at all, people hardly do them, just because people complained about the ISK. So what. It generated lots of content and lots of people got involved.

Stuff they rebalanced actually killed off a lot of ships. How much do you see BS gangs now? How much do you see command ships on the field after the CS change? How many T2 small/med gangs do you see? How many electronic warfare ships do you see in fleets? (kitsunes etc). You dont. So where they made T1 buffs they killed others. FW is just frig warfare now and some cruisers but that's it.

Solo pvp is pretty much dead now. Unless your willing to multibox 5 characters and hunt around forever. Or as above you have to just fight in frigs!

0.0 no longer have the 30-50 man roaming gangs anymore, its just completely blob warfare, and supers and caps now.

Please dont think that all the tweaks have actually made a huge difference they havent. People also want to see new stuff, new content, new features its been 2 years now and nothing major has been released. Sorry for me as a vet I need to see and have new content to play with, because everything else I have done. I want to do or try something different.

Even if they dont create complete new stuff then start making the current stuff more interesting, more interactive. For example missions are boring as hell, npcs are just pictures with text, why cant we have actual voice overs and interaction? That would make a huge difference to missions.

If you are happy with the tweaks then fine, happy for you. But I am also entitled to want something else also. Im sorry but 2 years of tweaks is imo pretty poor.


Incursions are just as popular, CCP showed the stats in a dinsdale ragenoght about matauders.

t2 frigs and cruisers are widely used, you can even find solo sentinels in low sec with assault frigs and cepters used everywhere and bombers get used everywhere from solo hunting to alliance strat ops.

Small roaming gangs are everywhere in null, we lose several hundred ships to them every month.

Battleships are the primary ship for frontline work in near all powerblocks. They are also good for both small gangs and solo work.



Whilst this is all somewhat true, I always thought one of the major points of all the ship rebalancing was to try and remove a lot of "ship of the month" thing.

Yet that really hasn't happened.

Going off what I have seen (not going to claim numbers) the Crow followed by the Stiletto is by far the most popular interceptor, FW appears to be mainly alts flying around in multiple stabbed ships and battleships, well you only ever tend to see the Apoc, Mega and Rokh being used and drone ships like the ishtar are favoured above all other ships in their class.

Now I am not saying that the ship rebalancing has been bad, god it was needed but once it is over and done with if we are still left with the situation where only a few select ships are being used in each class then can you call it a success?
TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2014-04-08 08:21:52 UTC
To be honest I would be in favor of CCP skipping an expansion after this and dedicating that entire year of EVE dev time to a single thing; break open the legacy code, fix every single damn thing that wasn't able to be fixed because of it, then put the legacy code on a hard drive and throw it into Eyjafjallajökull with a helicopter. A seat on the helicopter would cost 100 PLEX and the honor of throwing the hard drive would cost 250 PLEX (includes a nice little badge on your character bio; killer of the legacy!).

EVE would be fixed for the foreseeable future and new content is created at the same time. Hurrah.

(Totally serious about this, Devs. Do it!)

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
Varg Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2014-04-08 09:16:09 UTC
Mr R4nd0m wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mr R4nd0m wrote:
Please dont jsut make this yet another tweak and balance expansation, this will be a third in a row! I honestly hope there are big stuff happening because i just cant sub again if there isnt


I am willing to accept a one time transferring of now unneeded valuables that you may wish to be rid of.

CCp damn near died trying to give people "Jesus Features" that they would then go on to forget about (sure, CCPs gonna get around to finishing COSMOS one of these days, i just know it).

What we as a community told them is "fix the game, screw the big stuff" and that's what they've been doing. The game is soooo much better than it was in 2009 because of it. CCP should keep doing that. Oh how easily people forget the past.


Well if thats your opinion then fine. But 3 expansions in a row of it and nothing decent otherwise is not good. and im sorry but when you played for many years, just tweaks doesnt really make the game feel any different or better.


I can only assume you have some sort of mental issue. The tweaks they have made have radically altered the game and the sips everyone flys. Not to mention all the news ships, modules, deployables and mechanics they added in along side them. Do you pay any attention to patch notes at all?
Prince Kobol
#77 - 2014-04-08 09:23:15 UTC
Varg Altol wrote:
Mr R4nd0m wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mr R4nd0m wrote:
Please dont jsut make this yet another tweak and balance expansation, this will be a third in a row! I honestly hope there are big stuff happening because i just cant sub again if there isnt


I am willing to accept a one time transferring of now unneeded valuables that you may wish to be rid of.

CCp damn near died trying to give people "Jesus Features" that they would then go on to forget about (sure, CCPs gonna get around to finishing COSMOS one of these days, i just know it).

What we as a community told them is "fix the game, screw the big stuff" and that's what they've been doing. The game is soooo much better than it was in 2009 because of it. CCP should keep doing that. Oh how easily people forget the past.


Well if thats your opinion then fine. But 3 expansions in a row of it and nothing decent otherwise is not good. and im sorry but when you played for many years, just tweaks doesnt really make the game feel any different or better.


I can only assume you have some sort of mental issue. The tweaks they have made have radically altered the game and the sips everyone flys. Not to mention all the news ships, modules, deployables and mechanics they added in along side them. Do you pay any attention to patch notes at all?


I wouldn't go so far to say they have radically altered anything, not even close.
Prince Kobol
#78 - 2014-04-08 09:25:57 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
To be honest I would be in favor of CCP skipping an expansion after this and dedicating that entire year of EVE dev time to a single thing; break open the legacy code, fix every single damn thing that wasn't able to be fixed because of it, then put the legacy code on a hard drive and throw it into Eyjafjallajökull with a helicopter. A seat on the helicopter would cost 100 PLEX and the honor of throwing the hard drive would cost 250 PLEX (includes a nice little badge on your character bio; killer of the legacy!).

EVE would be fixed for the foreseeable future and new content is created at the same time. Hurrah.

(Totally serious about this, Devs. Do it!)



The problem with this is that many people have lost faith in CCP to deliver anything of this magnitude, their past record of delivering major expansions isn't what you call great.

Also what would the reaction of the playerbase be if after a year they are not able to deliver?

I suspect it would more of less kill Eve.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#79 - 2014-04-08 09:58:07 UTC
Quote:
The problem with this is that many people have lost faith in CCP to deliver anything of this magnitude, their past record of delivering major expansions isn't what you call great.


Hard to blame players. I think there's a misunderstanding with Devs plans and players expectations.

There were some statements about space colonization last fanfest (CCP Seagull's vision). Maybe it would be good to show what that mean? Maybe its time to set priorities? Do we need pirates ships balance or do we need bring CCP Seagull vision closer? What will keep me in game?

Quote:
I suspect it would more of less kill Eve.


Maybe not kill, this game is really unique, but will slow its developement.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Balshem Rozenzweig
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#80 - 2014-04-08 10:28:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Balshem Rozenzweig
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Tarpedo wrote:
Perhaps if we stop calling these patches "an expansion" CCP will start to create actual expansion?...

You mean one of those WOW expansions that adds entire new land masses and monsters, new classes & skills


Of course the cost of those land masses is that every single item you own is now useless.
Every single build now needs reworking.
Every single Raid Comp needs a new design.
And doing any of the already existing content becomes useless.

So WOW style expansions actually normally shrink the game, not expand it because they make more & more content obsolete.
EVE tries to keep all content relevant so the addition of a single item which doesn't destroy others is actually a larger expansion than anything WOW or any theme park has ever released because every existing content piece is still relevant.


And bosses still do the same thing only the area/damage/timer changes. WoW is about learning to dodge in proper moment, and pushing buttons in correct order. What makes WoW look like it is actually a game is the fact that people manage to fail on both numerous times in a row. And then they rage because the fight is too hard (imo - not playing is the easiest way to not encounter problems in game).

I'm fairly new player, but I'm content with what they are doing. I also think eve has a niche on the market and will generally attract new people.

They should however improve the tutorials because they do not cover many parts of the game.

"NUTS!!!" - general McAuliffe