These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

FONT

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Psychophantic
#501 - 2011-12-01 03:50:46 UTC
I remember complaining about it prior to the patch and being dismissed as a couple of disgruntled haters and their alts.
Molly Molotov
Doomheim
#502 - 2011-12-01 04:08:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Molly Molotov
This really reveals a much more systemic problem.


  • Font spacing too wide - a mongoloid dev's eyes are too far apart by western standards, multiculturalism failure; most of your customers have caucasoid eye spacing.



  • Customers aren't given a choice about which font they'd like to use in their game, 'politically correct' font is forced upon them by socialist CCP who have shown a track record of hating freedom; nanny institution bureaucratic failure.


Conclusion: CCP has been infiltrated and taken over by communist agents, much like modern day academia.

Enjoy your upcomming financial failures CCP, you people never learn.
Woo Doggy
Doomheim
#503 - 2011-12-01 04:09:32 UTC
Vachir Khan wrote:
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Hey all

Obviously there are divided opinions on the new font, it being in front of everyone the whole time and a big part of the overall EVE experience. When designing the new font, there were two major paths which we had to choose between. Make it legible, and improve accessibility or make it sci-fi and futuristic, risking usability for asthetics. We chose to go down the usability path.

Now from what we can see, there are very heated opinions on the topic. We did a little quasi-scientific analysis of the forums chatter. There were 1220 posts on the topic at the time of counting, 960 unique characters posting ( with the top 50 posting 31% of the posts ). We counted 6% objecting the new font, 49% somewhat neutral and 45% writing in a positive manner about it.

Looking at that date, we determine than while many people miss the old font and want the new one printed in books in order to be burned Farenheit 451 style, the majority of those writing on the topic like it and are enjoying the improved usability.

Also, the UI scaling is a very separate feature than the font, it was just lucky that we managed to get them both into Crucible. The font and the scaling had been developed by very different people at separate ends of the studio on very different schedules. Being able to launch both of then in Crucible made us pretty happy in terms of providing increased usability, which is something EVE sorely needs improved and we are committed to work on ad infinitum.

Finally, don't pick on Punkturis for implementing the new font or the UI scaling! She did a great job on both and I think EVE is a better product as a result of it!


Those "6%", as you call them, are probably the PVPers who actually need to make USE of all the info they can while still being somewhat able to see wth they're doing ingame. I'm quite sure some idiot who does nothing but mining in high sec or chains lvl 4s isn't exactly bothered by the changed font and its implications. Have you seen the screenshots of people who PVP, it's a fricking WALL of nothing but UI.

I'm sure some carebears with a 63" screen running at 6666x1337 while not ever getting further than targeting 4 ice roids does fine and will attest to just that. Would one of you CCP people actually be a PVPer (and possibly not have an uberl337 screen) worth his/her salt he'd just need to glance 3 seconds at the new UI to realise that the font (and almost more importantly it's implications) is TERRIBLE.


EXACTLY. It's not the font that's the problem. It's the UI scaling. Horrible for those of us with small screens that were able to have pvp info viewed appropriately with old font, but can no longer do so because of the changes.

Question: Did CCP test this on a 17" inch monitor? My guess is NO.
Jessie Kenan
Doomheim
#504 - 2011-12-01 04:25:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessie Kenan
Markis Silvairi wrote:
I'd be happy just to have the font width option put back in. I don't particularly care for either the old or the new font but with that option I'd expand the text and was more than happy.


This is one of the less drastic options I was thinking of suggesting myself. Having the 'Expanded' option would vastly improve the scrunched together look the new font has.
Another doable thing would be to properly align the text in their containers/texboxes. This would reduce the cringe factor and reduce the WIP look from it.

On a sidenote, those people personally insulting devs, you're not really helping anyone and making us look like a bunch of children without a real problem. Also you're putting ccp in a position to siding against their staff.
Train another level of Negotiation and get your **** together, FFS.

EDIT: Another suggestion, maybe setting some of the medium sized text to 'bold' might improve the smoothness (since anti-aliasing is not doing it). I think there a line of nice looking medium sized BOLD in the 'System information' box (top-left corner)
Zions Child
Higashikata Industries
#505 - 2011-12-01 04:27:59 UTC
Lol 26 page threadnought on Font change. I support the new font simply because of the tears its generated.
Shahirahh Orgasana
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#506 - 2011-12-01 04:33:53 UTC
A whole lot of this font angst would be avoided if CCP would just let US pick which font to use. Seriously, in this day and age, how hard can it be to allow picking something from our system Fonts folder? So some fonts would mess up the UI? so what!
FilterDecay
Perkone
Caldari State
#507 - 2011-12-01 04:36:44 UTC
New font is bad. I feel like all my windows are resized. What a pain.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#508 - 2011-12-01 04:42:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Woo Doggy wrote:
Vachir Khan wrote:
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Hey all

Obviously there are divided opinions on the new font, it being in front of everyone the whole time and a big part of the overall EVE experience. When designing the new font, there were two major paths which we had to choose between. Make it legible, and improve accessibility or make it sci-fi and futuristic, risking usability for asthetics. We chose to go down the usability path.

Now from what we can see, there are very heated opinions on the topic. We did a little quasi-scientific analysis of the forums chatter. There were 1220 posts on the topic at the time of counting, 960 unique characters posting ( with the top 50 posting 31% of the posts ). We counted 6% objecting the new font, 49% somewhat neutral and 45% writing in a positive manner about it.

Looking at that date, we determine than while many people miss the old font and want the new one printed in books in order to be burned Farenheit 451 style, the majority of those writing on the topic like it and are enjoying the improved usability.

Also, the UI scaling is a very separate feature than the font, it was just lucky that we managed to get them both into Crucible. The font and the scaling had been developed by very different people at separate ends of the studio on very different schedules. Being able to launch both of then in Crucible made us pretty happy in terms of providing increased usability, which is something EVE sorely needs improved and we are committed to work on ad infinitum.

Finally, don't pick on Punkturis for implementing the new font or the UI scaling! She did a great job on both and I think EVE is a better product as a result of it!


Those "6%", as you call them, are probably the PVPers who actually need to make USE of all the info they can while still being somewhat able to see wth they're doing ingame. I'm quite sure some idiot who does nothing but mining in high sec or chains lvl 4s isn't exactly bothered by the changed font and its implications. Have you seen the screenshots of people who PVP, it's a fricking WALL of nothing but UI.

I'm sure some carebears with a 63" screen running at 6666x1337 while not ever getting further than targeting 4 ice roids does fine and will attest to just that. Would one of you CCP people actually be a PVPer (and possibly not have an uberl337 screen) worth his/her salt he'd just need to glance 3 seconds at the new UI to realise that the font (and almost more importantly it's implications) is TERRIBLE.


EXACTLY. It's not the font that's the problem. It's the UI scaling. Horrible for those of us with small screens that were able to have pvp info viewed appropriately with old font, but can no longer do so because of the changes.

Question: Did CCP test this on a 17" inch monitor? My guess is NO.


Actually, being able to tell what system you are in when in enemy territory is rather a nice change of pace.

Scale things down a bit and you will find that you can get as much, if not more, on your screen than before... and actually be able to read all of it for a change.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Psychophantic
#509 - 2011-12-01 05:01:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Psychophantic
Ranger 1 wrote:

Scale things down a bit and you will find that you can get as much, if not more, on your screen than before... and actually be able to read all of it for a change.


90% http://i.imgur.com/Wr4nC.jpg

Overview pretty close to same size as when using old font.
Item stacks too small.
Ammo stacks too small.
Icons in space and overview too small.
Hud too small.
Window controls too small.

Go to 100% and I'll need an IFR to fly with that overview.

But just keep on dismissing peoples concerns, we're all here solely for the drama.
Forum Fighter
Doomheim
#510 - 2011-12-01 05:08:54 UTC
I like the font. What's the problem?

Bearer of the 1600mm Tinfoil Hat™
Peter Drakon
Luminaire Traders and Builders
#511 - 2011-12-01 06:23:34 UTC
I checked my self, and in 90% scaling the stack size numbers (like how many ammo there is in that stack) are actualy 5 pixel high. The overview text in 90% is 8, in small font setting is only 6 pixel high. There is no font that is going to be nice and readable in that small - but this is a scaling problem, and not the font's fault.

Also, if the window you are trying to read is transparent, then the anti-aliasing feature will even worsen the look more. Try to set the window transparency to 255 (thus, not transparent), and check if that is better for You to read. Keep in mind, that pinned windows are always transparent. The old star background had way less stars then the new (it was more uniform black), so now there are much more white dots behind the overview, and those mish up with the text.

This is not a font problem, it's the scaling, anti-aliasing and windows transparency settings. There are so many new changes, allocate some time to find what is the best for You.

Also, those who are puting up screenshots: please set the "Save screenshots in high quality" setting, and do not use lossy compression image types (JPG for instance), use PNG or uplad the original BMP screenshot.
Drew SkyWalker
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#512 - 2011-12-01 06:41:04 UTC
Probably it's a matter of personal perception but for me the new font is much more readable and I wouldn't go back now. It does take more screen space but it can be scaled down (remaining clear). I still remember my initial stress when I just started playing Eve - the old font looked stylish but was hard to read, I just got used to it because Eve had more attractions to offer. Now the font is easier on the eyes, thanks, CCP!
Trotula
#513 - 2011-12-01 06:49:28 UTC
As the last year has shown, there is only one way to give feedback that CCP responds to. If your so seriously disgruntled over the font as you say you are, then unsubscribe from Eve Online and on your exit survey be sure to post that their refusal to acknowledge that the new font is an issue for you is the reason for leaving.

Anything else will only result in CCP doing what they are doing right now, digging in their heals and blaming 'the vocal minority' for the attention on the forums.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#514 - 2011-12-01 07:23:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Psychophantic wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

Scale things down a bit and you will find that you can get as much, if not more, on your screen than before... and actually be able to read all of it for a change.


90% http://i.imgur.com/Wr4nC.jpg

Overview pretty close to same size as when using old font.
Item stacks too small.
Ammo stacks too small.
Icons in space and overview too small.
Hud too small.
Window controls too small.

Go to 100% and I'll need an IFR to fly with that overview.

But just keep on dismissing peoples concerns, we're all here solely for the drama.


People really should stop posting screen shots that prove the opposite of what they are claiming.

You appear to have a rather small monitor, probably 17 inch at best. That's not helping you either.

I can see everything you listed perfectly well, and I don't exactly have great eyesight. And you aren't showing the pop up tool tips for items like ammo stacks, not that they are often needed.

I wish I had kept the link posted in the other thread that allowed you to see the old font and then mouse over the pic to see the exact same thing in the new font. It was posted to prove there was a problem... unfortunately for the person who put it together it rather decisively proved the opposite.

Sure, they could stand to fool around with the scaling and other options a bit to accommodate people that play on various size monitors and at various odd resolutions, but for legibility this one is already head and shoulders above the old font.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Psychophantic
#515 - 2011-12-01 07:50:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Psychophantic
Ranger 1 wrote:

You appear to have a rather small monitor, probably 17 inch at best. That's not helping you either.


23" @ 1680x1050, funnily enough this is the same resolution as the screenshot.

I really don't know what your problem is.

Keep trying to convince me that I'm a crank though. I'm glad you're over the moon with the new font. I'm not asking for a revert or a replacement. I'm asking for the issues which have been reported up to a month before this font went live to be looked at.

At the moment I'm just skill queuing on both accounts. Probably spent an hour in game since the expansion.
Psychophantic
#516 - 2011-12-01 08:00:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Psychophantic
dblpost
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#517 - 2011-12-01 08:01:36 UTC
(cross-posting, sorry if it bothers someone, there are just so many threads)

1) I really like the new font and it's made my EVE experience undoubtedly much better... but I did some testing yesterday and looks like I'm in a fortunate situation- 100% scaling suits my screen size and resolution, in my use case everything is perfect.

2) scaling to 90% on 24"@1920x1200 simply does not look good. There are several issues, worst is what is probably the source of all "my eyes get sore/tired/burn" -comments, they are real and the fault is EVE:

- the font looks like it's a bitmap font that is scaled to a non-native size, and anti-aliased, making it blurry and actually hurting my eyes. Idk the actual tech behind the font, but problem looks very similar to a bitmap font displayed at wrong size. UI scalings should lock to nearest native font size, and work from there.

- there are several scaling errors in various parts of the UI; words appear in different font sizes (Items list), text is not aligned to baseline, words are not aligned to left.

After this test I fully understand the rage and think people should seriously be more chill about each other and the font. CCP should also look into this technical issue, it is not as simple as different opinions.

.
Djavo
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#518 - 2011-12-01 08:13:54 UTC
I personally like the new font, it scales well and well it works as intended I reckon.

All in all I am very happy with the latest update to our internet spaceship world.
JeanMichel Bizarre
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#519 - 2011-12-01 08:40:16 UTC
Just dropping in again to say how happy I am with the new font. It's so clear and legible... Yeah, I wished it was more sci-fi, but legibility is more important to me.

Dangerzone
mkint
#520 - 2011-12-01 08:41:24 UTC
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Being able to launch both of then in Crucible made us pretty happy in terms of providing increased usability, which is something EVE sorely needs improved and we are committed to work on ad infinitum.

To clarify, are you going to work on fixing the new "fixed" font, or are you going to work on "usability"?

Because really, the old font had issues with a couple of characters. The new font is an issue.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.