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Should eve be more 'Pay to Win?'

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BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#181 - 2014-04-07 18:05:02 UTC
It already is. - I pay every month, and I get to win.

Buying better equipment never made anyone inherently better at the task. You can already buy a skilled character with all the trimmings or PLEX to buy all the toys. What you can't to is buy the skill and experience not to have it taken from you.

The same **** happens in life, people with more experience will all ways have an edge. Your friends bigger problem is not understanding that difference.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#182 - 2014-04-07 18:10:12 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
It wouldn't make a bit of difference to anyone else.

It doesn't "break" any game mechanic.

It just means that players who have PLEX or currency at hand, can achieve their skill goals sooner.
So what. They are doing it by expending more resources in that time period, to do so.
Overall, they will have spent atleast as much PLEX/money, and probably much more, than any conventional player.
The only difference, is time.

In order to do so, they have to use PLEX or purchase the boost with currency, both of which are good for the game overall.



You already can, there are these nice things called implants. You can take the isk you would of used for a plex and buy a set of +5's. Then you will train WAY faster then i will, even though i have been here for 10 years, i die WAY too much for implants. So you already have a 'sp boost'

Why should you be rewarded for coming to a 10 year game now, when I have been here since the nearly the beginning? This would break game mechanics and you would see a ton of vets quit over this.

And if they open it up to everyone, then you would STILL never catch up. Because again, as a 10 year vet, i know pretty much this game backwards and farwards, and i can easily make more money then you, so i could always just keep getting plex and keep boosting. So you would STILL get no advantage, thus making this idea pointless.




This. A 10 year old vet is WAY MORE entitled to goodies and special offers then a new player.

After all, he has been funding CCP for a much longer time. 10 x 12 x 15 (not taking into account special offers etc) = 1800 dollar.

And that is also without any PLEX for ISK injection or what so ever.

So why should a 3 week old guy been given an advantage over the vets (yes, it is an advantage as the vet did NOT have the same bonus when he started. He even got nerfs compared to the newbies now by ways of no skillqueue (yeah, alarmclock skill updating) and learning skills).

OP...2 things for you.

A. Learn how the game works
B. Learn how new players are already having a much easier time now a days.



Do that, untill then...stop posting as all you do is making the vets laugh at your stupid ideas about turning EVE into wow.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#183 - 2014-04-07 18:12:03 UTC
BoBoZoBo wrote:


The same **** happens in life, people with more experience will all ways have an edge. Your friends bigger problem is not understanding that difference.


As an aside, this is why most games are the way they are (ie "you are the hero!!") and why people actually desire pay to win.

Lots of gamers are folks trying to get away from a sucky real life and modern games let them 'win' at something (unlike games from when i was younger, that kicked your ass and made you like it so much that you kept feeding the game the quarters you extorted from your mom lol). But even in games they have to face some uncomfortable realities (like 'not being able to catch up' with older players) so game companies bend to them again and again so they can win at something and feel good about themselves and pay for the privilege.

EVE is damn near the last bastion of "you suck, we know you suck, now PROVE you don't suck using only your wits" gaming and some people can't stand it and want it , too, to be 'pay to win' so they can feel good about what they are doing.
Salvos Rhoska
#184 - 2014-04-07 18:13:59 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
---


Makes no difference between vets and noobs.

Both could use it.

You seem to be under the impression I am concerned with new players catching up to Vets.
I am not. That was the other guy.

At 50-75% boost, it would still take 7years and cost MUCH more for the new player to match a 10yr Vet.
And at the same time, the Vet can be using the same boost option to get even further in his training.

The change wouldn't make any difference, for an advanced player could use the boost just as effectively as a new player can.
Ergo: no problems.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Cpt Swagg
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#185 - 2014-04-07 18:14:13 UTC
I'm new to the game but I can tell that it's already 100% pay to win.

Which is quite disappointing tbh, since I hate pay to win games, or even feel that I'm playing one.

You can buy PLEX and with it you can buy anything in this game. Even people.

100% pay to win :/
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#186 - 2014-04-07 18:15:08 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Tippia, want to discuss it in voice?

Do you have the balls?

told you he fancys her

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Jallukola
#187 - 2014-04-07 18:15:29 UTC
Here, go get some Riverdance.

If you understand the message behind this, you will understand why the thread is so upset about training time boosts.

All posts and mails screencapped and time stamped, including out of EVE, you will not reverse on me.

Might come in handy!
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#188 - 2014-04-07 18:17:42 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Tippia, want to discuss it in voice?

Do you have the balls?

told you he fancys her


Only cos I wouldnt cyber with him in his boners room

Though "boners" is such an exaggeration in his case

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#189 - 2014-04-07 18:18:41 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

mario games do the levels for you if you fail too many times :(

it's time to welcome the new style of quarter-feeding: free phone app lets the player win for five minutes, then demands credit card details for the next five minutes of failing to provide a challenge
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#190 - 2014-04-07 18:19:42 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Ill not answer as you said its for Tippia, but I can see around half a dozen mistakes in this post.


There are none.

Want to discuss it on voice?


Only if you join me in my bonus room on TS.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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Salvos Rhoska
#191 - 2014-04-07 18:20:37 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Ill not answer as you said its for Tippia, but I can see around half a dozen mistakes in this post.


There are none.

Want to discuss it on voice?


Only if you join me in my bonus room on TS.


Sure! Send me details and I'll be there promptly after a smoke.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#192 - 2014-04-07 18:21:46 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
ITT: Kneejerk reactionists who haven't thought it through.

Shame really. EVE was supposed to have an intelligent community.


Yeah. Until you joined the community.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#193 - 2014-04-07 18:27:47 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Ok lets try this a different way;


Im chasing Salvos through NPC null


I know there is a gatecamp that he has just passed through and I cant follow in my current ship

There's an inty on sale in this system but gasp its minmatar and I cant fly those because I havent trained Min Frig 5


Oh wait *BAM* drops $120 in PLEX into PLEX4SP

In 30 secs I learn it and after him again


lol, I'd almost pay a plex to see that.

Basically what you're dealing with is someone who is so dishonest that they believe their own lies lol. No amount of reason is going to break through that wall.

So much so that these types won't understand that what they think is such a great idea for new players (notice the OP stating the the "new player-veteran gap" is a motivation for this idea) is actually only a great idea for older players who (unlike new players) can throw in game isk generated PLEXes at their problems. Malcanis' law strikes again.


I just love how Salvos rages at everybody but this post. As this example is solid proof how terribad his idea is.

But he wont touch that, as the only option after reading it was to conceed defeat and unsub.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#194 - 2014-04-07 18:31:24 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
---


Makes no difference between vets and noobs.

Both could use it.

You seem to be under the impression I am concerned with new players catching up to Vets.
I am not. That was the other guy.

At 50-75% boost, it would still take 7years and cost MUCH more for the new player to match a 10yr Vet.
And at the same time, the Vet can be using the same boost option to get even further in his training.

The change wouldn't make any difference, for an advanced player could use the boost just as effectively as a new player can.
Ergo: no problems.


Uhm. If both could use it....whats the point of having it...

Troll on for the time you have till thread padlocked.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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Salvos Rhoska
#195 - 2014-04-07 18:32:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
J'Poll wrote:
I just love how Salvos rages at everybody but this post. As this example is solid proof how terribad his idea is.

But he wont touch that, as the only option after reading it was to conceed defeat and unsub.


And I love how you still haven't delivered your TS details, though I agree to voice.
Did you ignore that post where I explicitly said that?

Also, you are confusing me with OP.
I'm not the same guy, and his views are not mine.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Josef Djugashvilis
#196 - 2014-04-07 18:37:12 UTC
No, not now, not tomorrow, not ever.

Pointless bling, that is all that is acceptable.

This is not a signature.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#197 - 2014-04-07 18:52:54 UTC
EvE is as PTW as it can get already, hard to go much farther.

You can buy any character, any ship, any implant, any officer mod, with cash, thru the plex system. That is PTW.
What you can't buy is the skill to understand how to use it, and no amount of gold ammo is going to change that....

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#198 - 2014-04-07 19:29:00 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
That is the single WORST, most appalling attempt to backpedal I have ever seen.

Congratulations.


Do you REALLY, seriously, believe I don't know the definitions of the words "written" and "literal"?
I even paused at that point when I was writing the post, and decided DELIBERATELY to include the "literal" part so that my statement would also carry the definitions of that word, additionally to "written".

You DO know that they are not the same word, right? And that their definitions carry nuances and specifics unique to each?


You are now officially considered both Troll and KOS target by myself, my corp and soon my Alliance

This is not a threat

This is not something that bothers me if you care about it or not

This is a fact

Be seeing you



Well..let's do some research.
According to Chribba's Eve Who site, Ramona's corp consists of 4 chars all with the same last name, so safe to say they are all alts of her's. Her 91 pilot alliance is an industrial based alliance, based on their own description.

According to zKillboard, the alliance has 30 kills, and 120 losses.
Most of the losses are around Dodixie and in the FW zone of Kourmonen.
Last kill was Fed Navy Comet 2 days ago in a FW zone, but I can't tell if it was an FW based fight, or just something that happened.

Looks like the alliance was war-decced twice in 2014, and I believe both times by griefer corps.

So bottom line, don't think that Salvos has a lot to worry about, given that the alliance is industry based, with corps like "Roid Killers" and "United Research and Development". Now, maybe they have ties to a PvP outfit, but from what I am seeing, plus given that Council of Peace and Prosperity is NBSI, I would say that Ramona's threat rings a little hollow.
Desivo Delta Visseroff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#199 - 2014-04-07 19:34:11 UTC
Pay-to-Win is on the way out. The new model is Data-Mine-to-Win. The last time you installed a free game on your mobile/tablet, did you check the permissions???

In closing: Screw all Free-to-Play and Pay-to-Win gaming models.

I was hunting for sick loot, but all I could get my hands on were 50 corpses[:|]..............[:=d]
Faenir Antollare
For Ever And Ever
#200 - 2014-04-07 19:37:57 UTC
"...top anything the new player can do with his one multi-role character." (Tippia)

As a relatively new player, who has bought plex just to sell for isk so as to buy that char, that is absolutely spot-on!



It's far to easy as it is and would like to say to the OP that that does not make for a healthy future in New Eden.

RiP BooBoo 26/7/1971 - 23/7/2014 My Lady My Love My Life My Wife