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Should eve be more 'Pay to Win?'

First post First post
Author
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#161 - 2014-04-07 17:42:26 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Did you rage when alt-training on the same account was made possible?
Learn to read.
Salvos Rhoska
#162 - 2014-04-07 17:43:21 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
ITT: Kneejerk reactionists who haven't thought it through.

Shame really. EVE was supposed to have an intelligent community.

kneejerk reactions with reasoning explained in full Straight


Nope. No rational reasoning there.

Frankly this discussion reminds me of trying to convince a religious person that dinosaur bones weren't magically put there by some supernatural power.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#163 - 2014-04-07 17:44:07 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
ITT: Kneejerk reactionists who haven't thought it through.

Shame really. EVE was supposed to have an intelligent community.


This is just projection.

What you are suggesting and defending here is basically the end of EVe as we know it and the beginning of an EVE that starts down the path that most unsuccessful/dead MMOs followed: pay to win. EVE has survived this long because (among other things) it doesn't give players those comfy "we as a game company care about you" short cuts that other games do.

I will never understand this drive you and folks like you have to turn EVE away from it's proven and successful path towards a way of doing things that has proven only that it fails. It doesn't make sense, it's almost as if you want to see EVE and CCP go under.


Salvos Rhoska
#164 - 2014-04-07 17:45:09 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Did you rage when alt-training on the same account was made possible?
Learn to read.


*looks at text*
*reads it*
It says "Learn to read".

Is that an answer to my question? Nope.

Everytime you do this Tippia, this categorical inability or refusal to answer simple and direct questions, I laugh, hard.
And the funniest thing about it? Is you actually have the audacity to expect others to answer your questions, when you categorically are incapable or unwilling to do the same in reciprocation.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#165 - 2014-04-07 17:45:52 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Frankly this discussion reminds me of trying to convince a religious person that dinosaur bones weren't magically put there by some supernatural power.

go on
Salvos Rhoska
#166 - 2014-04-07 17:46:24 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
False slippery slope argument


If CCP had thought like you did, they would have stopped development the very day EVE went live.
Afterall, everything since has just been a slippery slope away from that original product.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#167 - 2014-04-07 17:48:17 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Ok lets try this a different way;


Im chasing Salvos through NPC null


I know there is a gatecamp that he has just passed through and I cant follow in my current ship

There's an inty on sale in this system but gasp its minmatar and I cant fly those because I havent trained Min Frig 5


Oh wait *BAM* drops $120 in PLEX into PLEX4SP

In 30 secs I learn it and after him again


lol, I'd almost pay a plex to see that.

Basically what you're dealing with is someone who is so dishonest that they believe their own lies lol. No amount of reason is going to break through that wall.

So much so that these types won't understand that what they think is such a great idea for new players (notice the OP stating the the "new player-veteran gap" is a motivation for this idea) is actually only a great idea for older players who (unlike new players) can throw in game isk generated PLEXes at their problems. Malcanis' law strikes again.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#168 - 2014-04-07 17:48:40 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Did you rage when alt-training on the same account was made possible?
Learn to read.


*looks at text*
*reads it*
It says "Learn to read".

Is that an answer to my question? Nope.

Everytime you do this Tippia, this categorical inability or refusal to answer simple and direct questions, I laugh, hard.
And the funniest thing about it? Is you actually have the audacity to expect others to answer your questions, when you categorically are incapable or unwilling to do the same in reciprocation.


she did answer your question. You really didnt bother reading her answer, hence her asking you agian to L2R

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Did you complain like this when the "game mechanic" of only being able to train one character per account, was changed?


Tippia wrote:
Since the mechanics for acquiring SP on your character didn't change, no. All characters are still subject to the same rules and the same mechanics that determine the acquisition speed.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Salvos Rhoska
#169 - 2014-04-07 17:50:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Ramona McCandless wrote:
she did answer your question. You really didnt bother reading her answer, hence her asking you agian to L2R


Where. I must have overlooked it.

She has an annoying and terrible tendency to bury her answers in a context or under a quotation to which they do not apply.

If I ask a direct and simple question, I expect a direct and simple answer.
I provide the same myself, in reciprocation.

Edited to add: Found it:
Tippia wrote:
]Since the mechanics for acquiring SP on your character didn't change, no. All characters are still subject to the same rules and the same mechanics that determine the acquisition speed.


This is a false and arbitrary response. The mechanics for acquiring SP where fundamentally changed, in that you could now train two characters at once, whereas before, you could only train one at a time.

Furthermore, this raises to light the other illogical hypocrisy in her position, and that is the fact that there already exist SP accelerating effects in the game, such as implants, starter pack accelerators, and neural re-maps. All of which affect the rate of SP accumulation.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#170 - 2014-04-07 17:53:02 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Nope. No rational reasoning there.

Frankly this discussion reminds me of trying to convince a religious person that dinosaur bones weren't magically put there by some supernatural power.

You mean in the sense that you just make baseless assertions without being able to offer more in the way of support than “because I believe so”, and without being able to account for the inherent contradictions between your claims and reality, and without being able to account for the repercussions of your claims, and even a pretty silly appeal to “well, you can believe what you want” reconciliation even though your part is still purely faith-based and unproven?

Yes, your argumentative style is very religion-like.

Quote:
Is that an answer to my question? Nope.
Yes it is. It tells you to go back and actually read the answer rather than skip over it like you always do. Just because you don't want to acknowledge an answer that was given long ago doesn't mean I refuse to answer it. I just refuse to repeat it to indulge your dishonesty.

So: learn to read. Once you've read my answer, please respond to it. The answer will not change just because you keep ignoring it, like you're hoping it will.

Quote:
If CCP had thought like you did, they would have stopped development the very day EVE went live.
No. If they did what he suggested, it would have arrived to where they are today, perhaps with a bit fewer mistakes along the road. What they certainly wouldn't do is follow your suggestion of implementing things that are unnecessary, self-defeating, and with no reasoning behind it.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#171 - 2014-04-07 17:54:15 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
False slippery slope argument


If CCP had thought like you did, they would have stopped development the very day EVE went live.
Afterall, everything since has just been a slippery slope away from that original product.


See what I mean by dishonesty? This guy is so tied to this bad idea that he needs to find a way to dismiss all dissent?

I'm not making a slippery slope argument. A slippery slope argument would be : 'what Salvos wants would lead to pay to win'. That's not slippery slope, what I'm saying is '[b]you done fell off the cliff already/b] so screw a slope lol.

No one has said EVE should not progress, we're saying that what you believe would be a good thing would actually be bad and only good progress should be pursued.

'Stupid' (such as adding pay to win to a game that doesn't need it and that would die from it) is not progress.
Salvos Rhoska
#172 - 2014-04-07 17:54:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Tippia, want to discuss it in voice?

Do you have the balls?

@Jenn aSide:
EVE would not die from it. Infact I'm quite certain CCP revenues would increase, as would player retention.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#173 - 2014-04-07 17:55:03 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
she did answer your question. You really didnt bother reading her answer, hence her asking you agian to L2R


Where. I must have overlooked it.


I quoted it for you. In the post that you replied to.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Written and literal mean the same thing

I know.

I made the distinction for your benefit, to include that you are not only misunderstanding what I have written, but you are also misunderstanding its "literal" meaning.


That is the single WORST, most appalling attempt to backpedal I have ever seen.

Congratulations.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#174 - 2014-04-07 17:55:34 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Where. I must have overlooked it.
Wow. Twice in the same post. Learn to read, ffs! Shocked

Quote:
She has an annoying and terrible tendency to bury her answers in a context or under a quotation to which they do not apply.
You mean “in the context of directly replying to a section where you question is being quoted in full”? Yes, I do that a lot, because that's where the answer applies.

Quote:
If I ask a direct and simple question, I expect a direct and simple answer.
I provide the same myself, in reciprocation.
…aside from your tendency to try to avoid answering simple questions as much as you can, in or out of context, and instead just stonewalling the discussion because you know that if you did provide an answer, it would completely sink the rhetoric point you were trying to make.
Salvos Rhoska
#175 - 2014-04-07 17:57:22 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
That is the single WORST, most appalling attempt to backpedal I have ever seen.

Congratulations.


Do you REALLY, seriously, believe I don't know the definitions of the words "written" and "literal"?
I even paused at that point when I was writing the post, and decided DELIBERATELY to include the "literal" part so that my statement would also carry the definitions of that word, additionally to "written".

You DO know that they are not the same word, right? And that their definitions carry nuances and specifics unique to each?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#176 - 2014-04-07 17:58:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Do you REALLY, seriously, believe I don't know the definitions of the words "written" and "literal"?
Yes. Why would you be any more aware of that than you are of anything else?
Consistency of this kind is very appealing to the mind.
Salvos Rhoska
#177 - 2014-04-07 17:59:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Tippia wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Do you REALLY, seriously, believe I don't know the definitions of the words "written" and "literal"?
Yes. Why would you be any more aware of that than you are of anything else?


What?
Thats like saying "I saw an apple fall from that tree, therefore there must be no more apples left in that tree".
I don't even.

Tippia circular logic again.

Will you take me up on my invitation to voice?
You can freely record it and distribute it as you wish.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#178 - 2014-04-07 18:00:28 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
That is the single WORST, most appalling attempt to backpedal I have ever seen.

Congratulations.


Do you REALLY, seriously, believe I don't know the definitions of the words "written" and "literal"?
I even paused at that point when I was writing the post, and decided DELIBERATELY to include the "literal" part so that my statement would also carry the definitions of that word, additionally to "written".

You DO know that they are not the same word, right? And that their definitions carry nuances and specifics unique to each?


You are now officially considered both Troll and KOS target by myself, my corp and soon my Alliance

This is not a threat

This is not something that bothers me if you care about it or not

This is a fact

Be seeing you

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#179 - 2014-04-07 18:01:30 UTC
can we talk about the definition of 'circular logic' next, please
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#180 - 2014-04-07 18:02:38 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
What?
You have a long history of having a hard time understanding the differences (or lack thereof) between things. Why would your knowledge of the words “literal” and “written” be any different.

Quote:
Tippia circular logic again.
How so?