EVE General Discussion

To answer the main question, no, EVE should not ever be pay to win nor is it like that now. PLEX and the character bazaar aren't pay to win, both are "pay for someone else to grind for you" but offer no advantage that anyone who isn't paying can't get.

Other than game time, the only things you should be able to get for real life money form EVE are monocles and ships skins and the like. The people telling y'all that this is a bad idea aren't anti-progress, they are anti "lets kill what makes EVE great".

Say no to pay to win.

Because like PLEXing your account, the thing you are wanting to pay for does not appear out of nowhere

What I mean by this;

No one "plays for free" as the PLEX is payed for by someone

No one learns skills faster (with the exception of the extremely limited item) as the character on the bizairre (intentional) was trained at the same speed as everyone else.

If you are a lazyball and buy a character instead of training and learning, well thats your lookout, but SOMEONE trained that character, and went to the effort of doing it.

Exactly, why even mine or buy ore from the market.

CCP, can I pay $5 for 80,000,000 tons of veldspar please.

I really don't understand the gripe about new players not being able to catch old ones. It is a dumb argument.

I currently have 124m sp's, been here 10 years, prolly missed maybe 6 months of training, never used any implants, and for a while my attibutes were a bit.. mm, skewed.

In my 10 years I have made maybe 10 different accounts, currently I have three, at different times, and each time I could pretty much do what I wanted that account for in a about a week. Same with alts, I needed a holding corp alt, took me 2 days to get him where I wanted.

You don't need to play catch up, that's a logical fallacy and a poor mans excuse. I may have 124m sp's, a bucket load of skills, but if I go up again a 1 week old char, odds are I will lose. Why? I don't pvp. I have skills to pvp, but most of the time I dunnp what the heck I am doing, and 90% of the time I go pop.

Pretty much, this is like going into a trade as an apprentice, looking at the master craftsmen/women, and going "i'll never catch up with them, f this" Its just plain dumb to think this way.

Expeence, both in time spent, and amount played, should be a factor. Its not my fault you never found our little game till now. Nor is it my fault I have been addicted to this world for 10 years.

People who focus on the number of skill points they have, and that's all they focus on, have come to eve with the wrong mindset. One of the reason I have played this game as long as I have is the skill system. Its the most IRL based I have ever seen. You gain knowladges both by playing, and by "going to school". You can't just sit in the seat of a car and know exactly how to drive it. And just because you can drive a pinto doesn't mean you can drive for nascar. The point is, just because yu have a few skill points, doesn't make you worthless. If all you are focused on is your SP numbers, then maybe eve is not the game for you. Just like to guy who takes a job and worries about how little money they are making, instead of learning the job so they can do and make more later, is prolly not in the right job.

I still don't get it... As a monthly paying customer where do i sign up for my free 700m from a plex sale? Oh wait no i have to PAY extra for that, how is that not the definition of pay-to-win?

Through the character bazaar isk = sp, therefore we already have a mechanism for paying to win with sp. Is it such a stretch to allow this on someones personal account instead of having to buy someone elses?

To the second paragraph true and very fair, if plex and character bazaar weren't a thing i can't see sp boosts being a thing either.

Even if true, it's not the point. It doesn't matter if it doesn't affect us personally, it means that the nature of the game has changed and this is a bad thing. Many of us play it because it's player driven and has a consistent set of rules.



The mistake you are making is applying your own set of needs to the situation. in other words, "if it cost you money" or affected your gameplay in some kind of way, it would be 'bad' and if it doesn't it's 'good'.

That's a very narrow minded way to look at things. It's not about whether or not it negatively affects us (it wouldn't affect me at al), it's about the nature of the game we're playing. Dividing EVE into different 'shards' wouldn't affect me either as I'm a PVE player and any eve shard would have guristas/bloods/serps to kill, but it would still be a horrible and un-EVE-like thing to do.

If we wanted to play games that weren't EVE, we'd be playing them already.

…aside from the skilling and attribute mechanics put into place to regulate how quickly you can accumulate SP — mechanics that apply to everyone.

So paying to not have mechanics apply to you is inherently a bad idea.

Because you're not buying any win. You're trading future game time for past game time (at a thoroughly atrocious rate). You are not skipping time — nothing is created any faster just because we add a PLEX to the mix.

Same here: all you're doing is trading time. No time is being skipped or accelerated.

SP boosts are bad because they skip time. They skip game mechanics. They break the balance of the game and impose a different rule set on people who pay cash than on those who do not. There's a reason why the rules strictly forbid anything that allows for “accumulation at an accelerated rate”: because it is in every way bad for the game. It's so bad that they're willing to throw out paying customers and brand them as exploiters and cheaters and other nasty names, just to ensure that everyone else play by the same rules.

Because that isk doesn't fly out of your wallet and explode people for you. PLEX is a trade (your cash for someone elses time). What you are asking for isn't a trade, its a direct CCP product, and even asking for that goes against what EVE is.



No it is not. A noob in a Titan is still a noob. Pay to win would be a noob in a Titan that could actually win a fight with other players because he paid 50 bucks for 100 'no cool down" area affect DDs.



YES. EVE is a player driven game.



Exactly bro.

Wouldn't make any difference.

Nor is it exclusive to new players, old players could conceivably use it too either on furthering their mains or for diversifying alts.

It amounts to just one more PLEX sink, and one more currency faucet for CCP.

It really makes no difference to any of us, if some random guy who is paying 2xPLEX per month, per character, gets for example, a 50-75% training boost.

I can understand people morally being upset that they spent 10 years to train a character, but anyone using boosts would still be expending the same amount of PLEX/cash in order to achieve that same SP total, infact much more. Only difference is it wouldn't take him 10 years to do so. But so what.

You took 10 years with 1xPLEX/money per month to get your total SP.

That guy will instead take 5yrs with 2xPLEX/money per month to get the same total SP.

(And thats assuming a 100% boost, which it would certainly not be).

If some guy is prepared to spend 2x Plex or 2xMoney per month, to get a 50-75% boost in training, I'm all for it.
Makes ZERO difference to me.
They are expending the same amount (infact a greater amount) of resources to get what only takes time for the conventional player.

Wait

So you are saying you dont mind then if, to stay "competitive" you had to spend, $20, $50 or $100 per month because you need to pour PLEX into skills?

Really?

(edit: changed the word "isk" to "PLEX" to make it more relevant)