EVE General Discussion

The MTU is a recent addition though.

Back at the height of TEARS, I would watch all kind of 'Muh loot you takin' muh loot" comments in local but when I would say "I got a field of wrecks here who wants them?" nobody would answer.

This was long before the MTU but I can see how the MTU could "damage" the profession as you state.

Anecdotal evidence is what now?

Think about it this way. Back in the day, ninja salvaging at all was basically guaranteeing you tears, whether you wanted them or not. Even if you're just trying to make money, people are hating on you for taking "their stuff".

So why on earth would someone like you offer it, if it wasn't a trick? Sure, you might actually be acting the altruist, but taking the odds that you might have some high tracking monstrosity logged off into the debris field to blast them when they go flashy is quite simply not worth it, given that there were literally TONS of other people to steal from.

Not worth the risk.

I wouldn't have taken you up, either. At the time, plenty of other fish.

Failure to grasp the concept of "Situational Awareness".

It's been so long I don't remember.

Some time after being able to abandon wrecks came the change in NPC AI that also made matters worse for ninjas.






During the height of it, I made careful study of the ninja-looting sport in the C&P forum. Partly because C&P is a great place to learn how not to be a victim and partly because the tactics of loot and aggro fu were fascinating.

Let us not forget the exploits of Zedrik Cayne in making sure that proper "standards" were being maintained.


But as you point out why nobody would take the offer, I would then ask "so, who created that atmosphere?".

Was it the mission runner or was it the people who would enter a mission room, loot openly in front of the mission runner, and target him as well? And if the bait was taken here was a neutral RR team coming right in.

So yeah you are right, all that highsec gankbear stuff does have an effect, and not the kind that gankbears like later on. Let's see:

- blue the wrecks so you don't have to say "didn't want them anyway" and some creepy cousin type has some "tears" to fetishisticaly post about in his ninja salvager/highsec gank PVP blog.
- Rat AI means the salvager needs to be as tanked as the mission runner.
- Suspect flagging allows other people, equally looking for safe highsec PVP, to attack the people who showed up looking for safe highsec PVP.
- nerf to salvage and loot (well that just screwed everybody).
- Free Wrecks channel and the advent of corporations that are built around it.
- Salvaging ships and salvaging drones.
- incursions putting more ISK into circulation making marauders more common in missions
- less missions being run because of incursions
- less missions being run because of the changes to exploration
- less missions being run because of lowsec FW plex farming

All of those points are based on observation of the forums from other players who are more directly involved on these other activities. I am not here to disagree with you. What did I miss?


BTW I'm not trying to white-knight against ninja salvaging. I used to do a lot of it, but I did true ninja salvaging. When I was a one-month noob I discovered that everybody was so afraid of Amamake the people making it a killing field were parking ships around the solar system so I found the one good time of the day to sneak in there and steal them, mainly frigates.

Later on when scanning got a little easier, I would use the D-scan/Probe combo tactic to get warpable hits on mission runners without them seeing the combat probes, and then I would wait for them to leave the system. Then I would bring in a salvage/loot dessie (back in my day, we didn't have these new-fangled salvage ships - we had to use destroyers in 3' of snow) and grab all I could. They never saw me, which is what I always felt was the point of being a (Dr. Evil Air Quotes) "ninja".

I think I caused quite a few inquiries about wreck despawn timers.

But I always felt that was more challenging and entertaining than this looting in front of them while targeting and smacking at them routine (then trying to lie about it being only about salvage or "keeping space clean").

They pull all the wrecks to the same spot and empty the loot inside it, they don't salvage the loot.

I found that MTUs just slow me down, unless it's a single pocket mission. You still have to bring your Noctis to salvage anyway.

No you get a suspect flag from shooting at an MTU. I use an Oracle and do it from 170-180km though... it's the perfect use for a sniper in a non-war scenario. Yes the wreck of an MTU rolls for loot just like a ship when popped. Your "friend" is trolling you on the suspect flag, or doesn't know and is full of s***. 15 mins flashy yellow.

Every eco system needs bottom feeders... even EvE.

MTUs are great to shoot when you find a missioner using one. Most of them HATE it when you link an MTU killmail in local.

It mainly comes down to the price of salvage, as far as that goes. There has been attempted nerf after attempted nerf to the ninja profession, but those of us who still do it are nothing if not adaptable. However, nobody actually ninja salvages anymore - its all about the loot. A newbie can still pull in 200 mil a week very reasonably as a ninja by just looting all the wrecks and learning to survive with a suspect flag. The MTU doesn't pose that much of a problem - just shoot it. The bear will either scoop it quick or it will die.

And when he gets a little older, he can study the true ninja's art - baiting the MRs into starting a limited engagement and then having his way with them.

WHY did salvage's prices tank?

Is there a wiki to the new suspect system?