Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I agree that cloaking needs a counter, but not a press button find cloaked ship response either, something that might require some skill and maybe even team work to accomplish.

I would suggest using something based on a destroyer hull, something a cross between a mine sweeper and an attack sub, it is the best comparison I can think of for this.

Maybe something like this:

1: Launch some black ops probes (sorry cant think of a better name right now), those operate in the same way a submarines magnetic anomaly detector works, in a nut shell they look for distortions which could be representative of a cloaked ship, this will however not necessary 100%, you could still end up chasing ghosts. (this will probably be all visible on D-scan, so you see probes and you just start moving around unless you are afk so your first counter to the system)

2: Assuming you find something you can warp to you can use something a bit like sonar to narrow down your detection sending out a pulse that some how highlights a location, maybe brackets, in space that you can approach, again this could return false positives and if you see a ship arrive of grid you can always warp away if cloaked.

3: The last and probably most controversial element the Anti Cloaking pulse, this should be short range maybe 10km or less and should require a charge, that can only be fired once a minute. This can be used easily enough on WHs and Stargates to prevent a scout entering a system. Possible thing to consider so it isn't considered too "Overpowered" there could be range activation restrictions like smart bombs so a pilot cant just sit on the WH or stargate spamming them every time someone jumps in.

Upside to this system being on a destroyer hull, you can always decloak your T3 and kill it before their friends arrive. The idea behind this kind of approach is to make a system that at least gives the cov ops pilots a chance to do provide their role, and if you go afk your chance of being killed increases. However, it also gives a means of countering cloaked ships which is something much needed in the current game.

It didnt get to be useful for that until the space was secured. It didnt get secured like that until the combined efforts of hundreds of players began camping gates and hunting down intruders. Local works exactly the same way in high sec, yet ganks happen all the time. You cant ignore all that effort in maintaining the system just because you want to solo hunt.

Its not local that makes space safe, its the people working to secure that space that do it. Remove local and it will have to be replaced with a functionally equivalent system. Regardless of if that system is based on ship scanners, system upgrades, POS modules, or skills some persistant way of knowing what is in space with you is needed in K-space or you may as well remove everything but combat ships and make EVE a spaceship themed Battlefield. When a ship is designed with evasion as being its primary defense, and where hard tackle is the first action taken by the enemy then for any chance at survival at all that evasion must be preemptive. Solo hunters get frustrated at not being able to catch targets because they insist on attacking ships not designed for combat and must evade or die. In most cases there is a nice camp of people just spoiling for a fight sitting on a gate nearby who would just love to have their day brightened.

Wormholes get away with it because they are very different in many respects from K-space.

Mike, I know you can do better than comparing high sec ganking to the discussion here.

Why? Other than scale its the same situation.

DudeA mines, DudeB wants to kill him for reasons ranging from Lols to slowing down his alliances titan production. In hisec DudeA may actually have closed the Local window or moved it off screen due to its uselessness. In Nullsec DudeA watches it like an OCD Ferret on tripple expresso with his finger quivering over the warp key.

Why the difference? Because in Null players have put forth immense effort and manpower to secure that space, making the local list valuable. In highsec that isnt practical on a proactive basis, but they have CONCORD instead.

It's a nice attempt to start a civilized discussion on a topic and I commend you for that, and reassure that some comments aimed at the OP are not necessary.

Despite saying that however I do agree that this is a moot issue, it's been done again and again, all with the same reoccurring themes; the same solutions, the same counter-arguments and the same opinions on said debates, but never a absolute agreement. To me it sound unfair that individuals continually demand that a mechanic be changed, when the majority of players agree that there isn't a problem, or that the problem lies with something else...

I'm not saying that people should stop advocating for change, but they should concede that there are some aspects that wont comply with their opinion, and that they just have to adapt around it.

I tried to post the other night but can't see my question...

If an afk cloaky is truly afk they can't do anything to harm you. If they are hunting you (not afk) wouldn't you see their probes on d-scan? So how is it any different having someone cloaked in your system? You would still need to watch d-scan for probes coming close. If he is hunting can you not bait him in?

The "majority" that you speak of is the same people that disagree with changing cloaks and the mechanics surrounding its uses in every thread. It's just the same people re-posting what they put in all the other change-cloaking threads. I would be willing to bet that there are more threads regarding this issue than there are people saying it's not broken....

Cloaking is broken. It allows force projection that has no way of being countered... You can't do anything to a cloaked person and they know it... They have all the time in the world to find the right opportunity and there is no way to protect against or counter that.

It is very disheartening that CCP has allowed this to go on without ANY changes or attempts to balance this broken area of the game.

Something needs to be done about it... Change cloaks, change cynos, limit BLOPS jump ranges to one or two ly.... something. Because this is simply stupid that one person is able to represent a entire fleet at any moment in a entire region... that is broken as ****.

Here you are, suggesting that players in an MMO should play together, by specifically trying to NOT play together.

I am suggesting we remove the obstacle to play, that being the lack of fighting capability present in the ships which are inspired to run from others.

You are suggesting ways that they could more effectively never see another player.

I do not believe this is wise for an MMO.

Straw man argument, with a cherry picking fallacy. Just because a few do it, doesn't mean every cloaker is a person with a bunch of afk alts, it also doesn't mean that cloaker is sitting there doing nothing willingly.

except the issue everyone has is when the player is not afk.

it doesnt matter to them if the player is afk or if hes at his keyboard warping back and forth and gathering intel. either way they feel unsafe. the problem is not ppl who are afk, it never was. ppl just try to use the 'afk is bad' as an argument to get what they want.

the issue is that the cloaker can sit undetectable whilst playing a meta game, or in prep to drop a fleet. being afk or not has nothing to do with it.