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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#461 - 2011-11-30 22:00:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Ris Dnalor wrote:
William Loire wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
you know things are good when the only whines are about the FONT


I have to agree with this, but the font is pretty bad.

Supporters: "I can finally read it!"
Detractors: "It's ugly, amateurish, not scifi, wraps poorly, giving headaches and clashes with the EVE art style."

Again why the old font couldn't have been optimized for clarity* rather then scrapping it entirely for a rush job is beyond me.

(* Seriously? People had troubles reading it? Playing since 2005 no problem. If your upset because you need your glasses to read it: thats exactly what your glasses are for. We have poor vision, deal with it.)


sing it loud & proud. amen.


People have been screaming about the EVE font for far longer that 2005. There are links to various thread and even WIKI articles detailing this elsewhere in this thread.

Legibility is the primary purpose of a font in a game like this, everything else is secondary.

And frankly, the only people that need to get their glasses checked are the handful complaining of headaches now. People that apparently never read anything else on the web or in digital document form.

If your current resolution/monitor/preferences in scaling don't work well for you... change them, experiment a little. You'll find something you and the rest of the 6% can live with.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Calon Seth
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#462 - 2011-11-30 22:04:13 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Ris Dnalor wrote:
William Loire wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
you know things are good when the only whines are about the FONT


I have to agree with this, but the font is pretty bad.

Supporters: "I can finally read it!"
Detractors: "It's ugly, amateurish, not scifi, wraps poorly, giving headaches and clashes with the EVE art style."

Again why the old font couldn't have been optimized for clarity* rather then scrapping it entirely for a rush job is beyond me.

(* Seriously? People had troubles reading it? Playing since 2005 no problem. If your upset because you need your glasses to read it: thats exactly what your glasses are for. We have poor vision, deal with it.)


sing it loud & proud. amen.


People have been screaming about the EVE font for far longer that 2005. There are links to various thread and even WIKI articles detailing this elsewhere in this thread.

Legibility is the primary purpose of a font in a game like this, everything else is secondary.

And frankly, the only people that need to get their glasses checked are the handful complaining of headaches now. People that apparently never read anything else on the web or in digital document form.

If your current resolution/monitor/preferences in scaling don't work well for you... change them, experiment a little. You'll find something you and the rest of the 6% can live with.


A small minority of clearly visually impaired people maybe. Everywhere I go now, I hear people complaining about the font. Never seen that kind of opposition for the old font.
Mutie DaPig
Doomheim
#463 - 2011-11-30 22:08:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutie DaPig
Quote:
Legibility is the primary purpose of a font in a game like this, everything else is secondary.


Legibility - yeah make the font bigger - ofc it's going to be more legibile. The bit where the spaceships go suffers correspondingly.

PS - what's wrong with the font we're reading here now in the forum? I look at this then at the UI and back again.. mmmm
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#464 - 2011-11-30 22:15:46 UTC
Shkolnica wrote:
CCP Navigator wrote:
It is currently not possible to toggle between the new font and the old one. While we appreciate that this is something a lot of people are asking for, it simply cannot be done in the current font rendering system.

So made it possible. Dont you have any programmers?


Contrary to what the public may believe, real life programming is not the same as Hollywood Hacking. It takes time to "made [sic] it possible".

Although I would just like to mention that I think it would be a cool feature to be able to use whatever font we want to with our EVE Client.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#465 - 2011-11-30 22:20:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Yamato
Playing on 1920x1080 and the new font is an improvement over the old one. It could use a bit more space between the characters and menu borders above it. It looks cramped because in some parts it's used in menu boxes, buttons and rows that are a bit too small for it.

To sum it up, new font good (but not perfect), UI not yet fully adjusted to match it though.
Miyu Wa
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#466 - 2011-11-30 22:32:36 UTC
Taedrin wrote:
Shkolnica wrote:
CCP Navigator wrote:
It is currently not possible to toggle between the new font and the old one. While we appreciate that this is something a lot of people are asking for, it simply cannot be done in the current font rendering system.

So made it possible. Dont you have any programmers?


Contrary to what the public may believe, real life programming is not the same as Hollywood Hacking. It takes time to "made [sic] it possible".

Although I would just like to mention that I think it would be a cool feature to be able to use whatever font we want to with our EVE Client.


However, as someone who actually knows what their talking about, the only reason you can have a system where it is impossible to use another font is that you made some amateurish, "look ma, it's my first renderer", mistake at the beginning, or equally embarassing amounts of poor planning.
Ayanaya
Apple Industries Inc.
#467 - 2011-11-30 22:36:04 UTC
I like the new font. big Screen = readable.

Sure there are issues in game where it needs to be improved.. but it's a great step in my opinion.

-a
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#468 - 2011-11-30 23:10:50 UTC
Got home tonight and started to tinker with the font some more. I have it running at 13pt and 90% scale on a 1920x1080 display and it is pretty close to where I like it. Overall it is better than the old one, but it is pretty obvious that some of the scaling needs work (like long target names and the item counts text size) especially on the larger than 100% scales.

You need to tinker with font size (under general settings tab) AND the UI scale size (under display and graphics tab). By default, it was a major 'Do not want.", but now it is pretty good.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
Yogsoloth
Fliet Pizza Delivery
Of Essence
#469 - 2011-11-30 23:17:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Yogsoloth
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Hey all

Obviously there are divided opinions on the new font, it being in front of everyone the whole time and a big part of the overall EVE experience. When designing the new font, there were two major paths which we had to choose between. Make it legible, and improve accessibility or make it sci-fi and futuristic, risking usability for asthetics. We chose to go down the usability path.

Now from what we can see, there are very heated opinions on the topic. We did a little quasi-scientific analysis of the forums chatter. There were 1220 posts on the topic at the time of counting, 960 unique characters posting ( with the top 50 posting 31% of the posts ). We counted 6% objecting the new font, 49% somewhat neutral and 45% writing in a positive manner about it.

Looking at that date, we determine than while many people miss the old font and want the new one printed in books in order to be burned Farenheit 451 style, the majority of those writing on the topic like it and are enjoying the improved usability.

Also, the UI scaling is a very separate feature than the font, it was just lucky that we managed to get them both into Crucible. The font and the scaling had been developed by very different people at separate ends of the studio on very different schedules. Being able to launch both of then in Crucible made us pretty happy in terms of providing increased usability, which is something EVE sorely needs improved and we are committed to work on ad infinitum.

Finally, don't pick on Punkturis for implementing the new font or the UI scaling! She did a great job on both and I think EVE is a better product as a result of it!


When did 45% become a majority ?

I see what you did there, you created a seperate category (somewhat nuetral ???) so that you would not have to count those who were not supoortive or positive about the change as negative.

I see through your deceit though, if only 45% are positive that means there are 55% that do not feel positive about the change !

Clearly 55% of the people that do not feel positive about the change is the majority in this equation.

Stop playing symantics with us.
Shakari Sween
Blacklisted Bastards
#470 - 2011-11-30 23:21:54 UTC
The new font is way different.

I definitely prefer the old one, and would love the ability to switch between them.
Rikki Sals
BioLogistics
#471 - 2011-11-30 23:24:28 UTC
While I personally prefer the new font, being able to select from a number of different fonts would be very nice.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#472 - 2011-11-30 23:29:01 UTC
ITT ''It changed now it sucks''

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Endeavour Starfleet
#473 - 2011-11-30 23:30:58 UTC
CCP please keep the new font. Again these IDIOTS had TONS of time to provide feedback but diddnt bother getting on Sisi.

Too bad so sad.
Endeavour Starfleet
#474 - 2011-11-30 23:33:40 UTC
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:

The only real "fix" at this point would be to introduce fully switchable font typeface with at least a handful of different fonts that players could freely choose (with at least the ability to specify UI font and chat box font separately. Possibly also separate font for the overview).

In the short term, that's not that easy or cheap. The font has to be licensed and then adjusted to work within the client. That's expensive and time consuming.

Also, just be clear, we are totally aware that some people don't like it, and that's their opinion and we respect that. When it comes to something like a typeface, its there are no moral absolutes or right or wrong. What we're saying is that overall, we and the majority of people providing feedback on it feel that it improves usability. During testing and first implementation, we had pretty much exactly the same discussion and split opinions within the larger dev team, btw.


This!

And people had their chance to provide feedback on the new font. They couldn't be bothered to test Sisi now they whine and scream on the forums.

CCP you did GREAT work on the new font. Please don't spend much dev time changing it because people can't be bothered to test.
Just Lilly
#475 - 2011-11-30 23:39:22 UTC
The new font is a vast improvement to the old one.

Hate it all you want haters...

I for one hope it's here to stay Blink
Powered by Nvidia GTX 690
Pestilent Industries
Doomheim
#476 - 2011-11-30 23:40:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Pestilent Industries
flank steak wrote:
wow you have known this was coming out for about a month and you choose today to complain about it? Seriously forum warriors?


Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
And people had their chance to provide feedback on the new font. They couldn't be bothered to test Sisi now they whine and scream on the forums.

CCP you did GREAT work on the new font. Please don't spend much dev time changing it because people can't be bothered to test.



The new font was complained about in the blog thread, test forum feedback thread, and in general discussion. Apparently you are ignorant of the facts.
Pestilent Industries
Doomheim
#477 - 2011-11-30 23:43:14 UTC
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:

The only real "fix" at this point would be to introduce fully switchable font typeface with at least a handful of different fonts that players could freely choose (with at least the ability to specify UI font and chat box font separately. Possibly also separate font for the overview).

In the short term, that's not that easy or cheap. The font has to be licensed and then adjusted to work within the client. That's expensive and time consuming.

Also, just be clear, we are totally aware that some people don't like it, and that's their opinion and we respect that. When it comes to something like a typeface, its there are no moral absolutes or right or wrong. What we're saying is that overall, we and the majority of people providing feedback on it feel that it improves usability. During testing and first implementation, we had pretty much exactly the same discussion and split opinions within the larger dev team, btw.


You are "absolutely" wrong. The new font is terrible.
Pestilent Industries
Doomheim
#478 - 2011-11-30 23:46:33 UTC
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Hey all

Obviously there are divided opinions on the new font, it being in front of everyone the whole time and a big part of the overall EVE experience. When designing the new font, there were two major paths which we had to choose between. Make it legible, and improve accessibility or make it sci-fi and futuristic, risking usability for asthetics. We chose to go down the usability path.

Now from what we can see, there are very heated opinions on the topic. We did a little quasi-scientific analysis of the forums chatter. There were 1220 posts on the topic at the time of counting, 960 unique characters posting ( with the top 50 posting 31% of the posts ). We counted 6% objecting the new font, 49% somewhat neutral and 45% writing in a positive manner about it.

Looking at that date, we determine than while many people miss the old font and want the new one printed in books in order to be burned Farenheit 451 style, the majority of those writing on the topic like it and are enjoying the improved usability.

Also, the UI scaling is a very separate feature than the font, it was just lucky that we managed to get them both into Crucible. The font and the scaling had been developed by very different people at separate ends of the studio on very different schedules. Being able to launch both of then in Crucible made us pretty happy in terms of providing increased usability, which is something EVE sorely needs improved and we are committed to work on ad infinitum.

Finally, don't pick on Punkturis for implementing the new font or the UI scaling! She did a great job on both and I think EVE is a better product as a result of it!


What a load of bull. Quit pulling numbers out of your behind. So many people hate the font and are not even posting here about it. The new font is terrible and ruins the game for a lot of us. Quit being fearless and be fearful, discerning, and listen to your thousands of unhappy customers. This fearless attitude is what got you into trouble in the first place. Just stop it. Pull your head out of the sand and fix it. The dev who created this font should be fired.
Endeavour Starfleet
#479 - 2011-11-30 23:46:43 UTC
Pestilent Industries wrote:
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:

The only real "fix" at this point would be to introduce fully switchable font typeface with at least a handful of different fonts that players could freely choose (with at least the ability to specify UI font and chat box font separately. Possibly also separate font for the overview).

In the short term, that's not that easy or cheap. The font has to be licensed and then adjusted to work within the client. That's expensive and time consuming.

Also, just be clear, we are totally aware that some people don't like it, and that's their opinion and we respect that. When it comes to something like a typeface, its there are no moral absolutes or right or wrong. What we're saying is that overall, we and the majority of people providing feedback on it feel that it improves usability. During testing and first implementation, we had pretty much exactly the same discussion and split opinions within the larger dev team, btw.


You are "absolutely" wrong. The new font is terrible.



They are "wrong" about their own development?

And CCP is supposed to take you seriously why?

Can I haz your stuff?
Pestilent Industries
Doomheim
#480 - 2011-11-30 23:50:45 UTC
Shkolnica wrote:
New and old ui comparison.
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/96881


Wow the old one is so much better. Sigh.