Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Ah, right... And not using the space you own, sit in station all day or only hunt Havens, Forsaken Hubs and Sanctums with AFK Ishtars or Carriers certainly is living in 00. Oh, and driving other people out of business be sheer force and overwhelming power is certainly also living and playing the game properly. And of course this behavior is going to create endless streams of content and will make people so much more likely and willing to go to riskier places.

Really, sometimes the density of mankind is striking me by surprise.

April fools in here? With all the other threads with similar topics only differently worded? Hardly.

I was refering to op.

Many nullsec alliances build their capitals in lowsec because it is safer than Null, and it is much more easy and cheeper to transfer there materials.

Many people build this way supers.
Supers in lowsec?!

You build easily capital hulls, put some fuel , jump to destination null sec.
Reprocess to parts , and use them for constructing super capitals.

Tons, tons of logistics is gone.

When ccp proposed refinery nerf - their goal was to increase of importance for nullsec miner groups.

Without this change , all current capital production will shift to lowsec station, as moving there minerals from higsec will be much more easy.

Just move minerals to closest station in higsec, place cyno on lowsec station , and use JF to haul stuff - as this station will have "higsec" gate in system, whole operation will be fast and safe.


Change that im proposing will limit this kind of abuse.

It is not to dangerous , just after those changes it will be much easier to do it in lowsec.
Building them in lowsec will mean :
- less time spent on moving ore
- less time needed for maintenance ( if you build this on a pos , then this much less time you have to focus on this)
- lower transportation cost ( 1 jump , not a whole cynochain )

I don't think that CCP goal is moving capital production from nullsec to lowsec.

Most of the null sec stations don't have max refinery upgrade, and because of the cost they will not have.
Pos refinery is one of the items that will do this during this time.

As for the danger.
In lowsec warping a freighter between station and pos , where you cannot use a dictor ... yes this is very dangerous.
Fuel cost , from the transport perspective?
Jumping <<1ly from higsec to lowsec station when comparing to multiple midpoints on max range?

Pos fuel? 1/4 less per month. That is nothing when you take into consideration the JF fuel you have to spend.

But that is the whole point.
If CCP will not do something it will be easier and faster to move materials from high to low than mining them in nullsec.

It is not about what people should , its about how much people are lazy.
CCP have to be consistent, without fully committing to idea that is behind this refinery nerf people will just move their production to lowsec - because it is easier, cheeper and faster this way.

Explain me one thing.
If there will be no change in lowsec
What is the point of mining minerals in Nullsec ( or importing them ), refining them at pos and building capitals when at the same time i can :
- Place small pos in lowsec add refinery.
- cheaply jump compressed minerals from higsec to lowsec.
- using freighter move them from station to pos and refine, bring them back
- build capital on a station

If you think you can bump freighter when you are doing this correctly - then you are doing this wrong.

You can bump JF as you know that it will be coming because of the cyno location.
System/grid have to load for a JF pilot , and it will be always 5k from cyno.

In freighter you can warp to multiple "0" spots around the station.
You are going to be using systems that are not perma camped, as this is midpoint for few nullsec regions.

If you think that you can do something to a nullsec entity that will be building capitals - then you are a bit wrong.
You will ref this pos only once - when you will come to the timer you will get 2 full fleets on your gang....

This was not april 1st joke ;)

When CCP want to nerf #cought# improve something.
Let it be full commitment - not something that players will overcome by just moving more production alts to low sec.

This is not troll.
Just plain facts.

Most of the people will move cap production Nullsec -> Lowsec stations.
Safer, cheaper, less time spent on moving stuff.

Time that you spend on moving stuff is also costs , usually more important for a player than isk costs.
Nullsec ( excluding drone regions ) after this change will have 50% of its current material income.
Yes people could mine more , but why when you can just do this in nullsec.
In most of the cases people are not building capitals as a 20 people corp, but as a single person that have few alts.

Without proper adjustment made in lowsec that will limit production lines there - they will just move thier production there.
There will be probably mining corps that will try to build capitals in lowsec but take into consideration this.

Lowsec.
- minimal fees on station production lines
- fuel for medium pos ( refining )
- minimal fuel for JF ( Higsec -> Lowsec by jump drive Lowsec -> higsec by gate )
- minimal time on hauling

Nullsec ( miners ):
- 3/4 pos fuel ( refining ) ( large tower also for production )
- JF fuel ( brining missing tyt/pyerite from higsec )
- lost mining ships to rats/roaming gangs
- lost time while gangs are around
- lost time while someone is afk camping
- lost time on hauling
Take into consideration that 1 lost mining ship is around 200mil of additional costs, and probably miner will have some implants.

Nullsec ( full import ) :
- 3/4 pos fuel ( refining ) ( large tower also for production )
- high JF fuel costs for moving all minerals from higsec
- lost time on hauling
(and in general it is almost the same cost like the lowsec manufacturing , except that you have to spend endless hours on hauling , and burn tons of fuel)