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Intergalactic Summit

 
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I am X but I fly Y

Author
Anslo
Scope Works
#201 - 2014-04-01 03:56:16 UTC
DeadRow wrote:
Pyre might think we're nasty too, but they get their hands dirty and do what they think is best for their nation. Rather than shout loudly at a feed.

~Hikari


Then why are the rest of your walking computers screaming so much instead of simply letting your actions speak?

Pot? Kettle. Etc.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#202 - 2014-04-01 04:11:22 UTC
DeadRow wrote:
I don't get it.

You're accusing us of benefiting from a deal we made with another party? Of course we do. That is literally the point of making deals and agreements with others. Is so you are better off. Just because we are better off doesn't mean that Pyre or any other parties that have deals with us are worse off. We aren't proving you wrong because it's obvious.


Obvious indeed. So what IS it you're getting out of the arrangement?

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

DeadRow
Blue Canary
Watch This
#203 - 2014-04-01 04:12:09 UTC
Anslo wrote:
DeadRow wrote:
Pyre might think we're nasty too, but they get their hands dirty and do what they think is best for their nation. Rather than shout loudly at a feed.

~Hikari


Then why are the rest of your walking computers screaming so much instead of simply letting your actions speak?

Pot? Kettle. Etc.



We don't start these things. We don't make public announcements about our goings on or campaigns. We do let actions speak for us, but when others feel the need to call us out or spread misinformation then we'll correct them. We try and be rational and generally give well thought out replies in such times but it is often met with frothing at the mouth by the usual parties.

We do this because Tiberious and a small number of others have a vain hope that one day we might get some meaning discourse from it. I don't hold on this hope, however, but it is something to pass the time.

~Hikari
DeadRow
Blue Canary
Watch This
#204 - 2014-04-01 04:14:12 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
DeadRow wrote:
I don't get it.

You're accusing us of benefiting from a deal we made with another party? Of course we do. That is literally the point of making deals and agreements with others. Is so you are better off. Just because we are better off doesn't mean that Pyre or any other parties that have deals with us are worse off. We aren't proving you wrong because it's obvious.


Obvious indeed. So what IS it you're getting out of the arrangement?


It's been stated a number of times in this thread and in rather plain terms.

~Hikari
Anslo
Scope Works
#205 - 2014-04-01 04:14:34 UTC
DeadRow wrote:
Anslo wrote:
DeadRow wrote:
Pyre might think we're nasty too, but they get their hands dirty and do what they think is best for their nation. Rather than shout loudly at a feed.

~Hikari


Then why are the rest of your walking computers screaming so much instead of simply letting your actions speak?

Pot? Kettle. Etc.



We don't start these things. We don't make public announcements about our goings on or campaigns. We do let actions speak for us, but when others feel the need to call us out or spread misinformation then we'll correct them.


Why do you feel a need to correct someone who's words do not match your actions?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#206 - 2014-04-01 04:27:31 UTC
DeadRow wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
DeadRow wrote:
I don't get it.

You're accusing us of benefiting from a deal we made with another party? Of course we do. That is literally the point of making deals and agreements with others. Is so you are better off. Just because we are better off doesn't mean that Pyre or any other parties that have deals with us are worse off. We aren't proving you wrong because it's obvious.


Obvious indeed. So what IS it you're getting out of the arrangement?


It's been stated a number of times in this thread and in rather plain terms.

~Hikari


Care to repeat them for a poor boneheaded Civire who must have missed it in all the confusion?

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#207 - 2014-04-01 10:33:06 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
DeadRow wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
DeadRow wrote:
I don't get it.

You're accusing us of benefiting from a deal we made with another party? Of course we do. That is literally the point of making deals and agreements with others. Is so you are better off. Just because we are better off doesn't mean that Pyre or any other parties that have deals with us are worse off. We aren't proving you wrong because it's obvious.


Obvious indeed. So what IS it you're getting out of the arrangement?


It's been stated a number of times in this thread and in rather plain terms.

~Hikari


Care to repeat them for a poor boneheaded Civire who must have missed it in all the confusion?


Math.

We aren't picky about the source of our biomass, whereas Pyre Falcon want only Caldari Persons.

So, even if they were giving us four prisoners for every three prisoners we transfer to them, the Foundations benefits. Even if they provided us with 3 prisoners and 1 tonne of algae for every three prisoners, the Foundations benefits.

It is nothing more sinister than that. Both sides get something that they want, both sides benefit, and therefore both sides have a very good reason to keep the deal going on an honest and fair basis.
TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#208 - 2014-04-01 10:36:51 UTC  |  Edited by: TomHorn
Quote:
Oh, it does. In fact I already reminded them that it does. I distinctly recall mentioning the twin crimes against the laws of the State of selling people into slavery and of sentence without due process.

You could throw in all sorts. Aiding and abetting an enemy of the State, neglectful compromise of national security, unlawful business with a criminal faction... I bet a talented prosecutor could stretch the list out to be as long as my leg.


Stitcher you have all but in name declared war upon Pyre Falcon. They are patriots like you yourself claim to be. They have fought for our nation , highest honor one can give to your country. They are saving the lives of Caldari prisoner's of war, returning them back to us , who share the same honor of fighting for our State. Personally i see no crime here.

Mega coporations are not averse to working with criminals or the underworld, if there are profits or benefits for them to do so. The deal here Pyre Falcon make is not for profits or benefits to themselves but a much nobler cause, to save the lives of our people.

I think you are wrong Stitcher. The only credit i can give you , is that you have have stuck to your principles. Unlike some other liberals, who were also accusing Pyre Falcon of criminal/aiding and abetting terrorists, but have remained quite rather than outright denounce them now as a criminal/terrorist organisation.You stated earlier you believed their actions were criminal/aiding and abetting terrorist organisation. When asked if you believe Pyre Falcon to be a criminal/terrorist organisation due to this agreement with TS-F you have said yes. Even though i believe you like, maybe respect some people in Pyre Falcon, although maybe that will change if they do not reconsider this deal with TS-F.

Liberal corporation Ishukone criminalized Heth , now you as a liberal capsuleer's try to criminalize Pyre Falcon.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#209 - 2014-04-01 11:47:12 UTC
I still don't buy it - that seems like an awful lot of effort and time invested for small-to-negligible gain - but my bit on that subject has been said and it's not my decision to make, it's Pyre's. Time to move on.

Horn: Being a patriot doesn't absolve one of breaking the law. Neither does being liberal, practical, or anything else. It's a simple yes-or-no: "Was this person or corporation's actions in contravention of some article of State or Corporate law?"

In fact, the great Admiral Tovil-Toba himself was court-marshalled posthumously on the charge of disobeying a direct order. The judge remarked that while it was clear that in fact the great man was legitimately guilty as charged - as in, he HAD disobeyed a direct order - that disobedience was to the great benefit of the Caldari people, and that in this case, the law should be nullified.

Laws don't cease to have been broken simply because they were broken by a hero, a patriot or a soldier. At best, they can be concluded to have been legitimately broken for good reason. Seeing as I have no legal authority to pass judgement over Pyre Falcon, I'll refrain from commenting.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#210 - 2014-04-01 11:52:47 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
I still don't buy it - that seems like an awful lot of effort and time invested for small-to-negligible gain - but my bit on that subject has been said and it's not my decision to make, it's Pyre's.


As to this I will just say that the Foundations has learned to never discount a benefit or an edge, no matter how small. I suspect that Pyre believes the same.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#211 - 2014-04-01 14:02:35 UTC
Well, if you want to ignore opportunity cost and profit-to-m3 ratios, then that's your business.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#212 - 2014-04-01 15:07:09 UTC
Quote:
Laws don't cease to have been broken simply because they were broken by a hero, a patriot or a soldier. At best, they can be concluded to have been legitimately broken for good reason. Seeing as I have no legal authority to pass judgement over Pyre Falcon, I'll refrain from commenting.


It seems to me you have already commented on them Stitcher. You see Pyre Falcon as a criminal/terrorist organisation, for their dealings with TS-F. Your judgement because of this deal guilty as charged.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#213 - 2014-04-01 15:13:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
"Observing that they may have broken the law" does not equal "Judge them to be a criminal and/or terrorist organisation". A parking ticket doesn't make you a hardened Gurista, after all.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#214 - 2014-04-01 15:44:38 UTC  |  Edited by: TomHorn
Stitcher wrote:
"Observing that they may have broken the law" does not equal "Consider them to be a criminal and/or terrorist organisation". A parking ticket doesn't make you a hardened Gurista, after all.


I much prefer this conciliatory tone of yours. That you see their agreement with TS-F as a misdemeanor act the equivalent of a parking ticket, rather than a more serious offence. After all, us as patriots and you as liberals, we both consider ourselves loyal to the State. We should not be looking to criminalize one another. I still see no crime in Pyre Falcon actions, regarding the returning of Caldari prisoners of war home to us.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#215 - 2014-04-01 15:59:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Don't play the condescending "much better" card with me you son of a *****. whatever Pyre's misdemeanours may be, YOU vocally identify and sympathize with the State's declared enemies. You don't get to call yourself a patriot and servant of the State when the very organisation whose name you proudly wear has been outlawed by the CEP

I'm not willing to call Pyre terrorists or criminals, but I am damn well willing to call YOU one.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#216 - 2014-04-01 16:20:47 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Don't play the condescending "much better" card with me you son of a *****. whatever Pyre's misdemeanours may be, YOU vocally identify and sympathize with the State's declared enemies. You don't get to call yourself a patriot and servant of the State when the very organisation whose name you proudly wear has been outlawed by the CEP

I'm not willing to call Pyre terrorists or criminals, but I am damn well willing to call YOU one.

And furthermore, he doesn't like you.Roll

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#217 - 2014-04-01 16:29:45 UTC
It might be useful to note that, whenever it comes to outright war between Nation and the State again, and toying with CONCORD and capsuleers does not constitute as such at this moment, diplomatic efforts will be revisited as it is good practice. A clear example would be Upliftings part 2.0.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.

Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#218 - 2014-04-01 18:02:08 UTC
A Dragonaur attempting to lecture someone on ethics and morality? That's pretty rich. Maybe I'll join the Bloody Hands and come back in here spouting off.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#219 - 2014-04-01 18:05:49 UTC
Desiderya wrote:
It might be useful to note that, whenever it comes to outright war between Nation and the State again, and toying with CONCORD and capsuleers does not constitute as such at this moment, diplomatic efforts will be revisited as it is good practice. A clear example would be Upliftings part 2.0.


You don't count Nation assaulting Caldari State sovereign systems and kidnapping your local populations to be an outright act of war? Interesting; what other atrocities towards your people can someone commit without being labeled as an enemy to you and yours?

-Eran
Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#220 - 2014-04-01 18:16:39 UTC
I personally feel comfortable with ships from the four Empires, as well as outlaw organisations and ORE. The reason is purely practical: from a given ship category, I will choose the one that better suits the role I intend to give it, as well as my own combat style and my aesthetical preferences on that moment.

Otherwise I'd be expending ages for choosing a ship: I tend not to have favourites from a given category (even colours!), at least for long time; instead I think practical and learn to love the final choice, even if it isn't my most favourite at that moment.

A good example is my Dominix-class battleship. Aiming for higher capabilities from my lovely Prophecy-class battlecruiser "LazerHawk", the next step in the drone carrier line would be either the Apocalypse or the Dominix. Even though I prefered the Apocalypse's lines, I chose the Gallente software superiority. Right now, "Omega" is my most precious (and only!) battleship, and its drones have teared through many Blood Raiders hulls.

That said, I always keep a small, warm place in my heart for Minmatar designs, for obvious reasons.