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High sec Mission runners just got completely screwed by CCP

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Kyperion
#741 - 2014-03-29 16:12:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyperion
baltec1 wrote:


Same way they have killed pvp in every single other MMO that added them. If you want arena pvp you go play one of those other countless MMOs that has it.

Oh, like all those other MMO's that have way more subscribers??

Or other PVP MMO's that are entirely based on arena combat? World of tanks, World of Warplanes, Mech Warrior Online, League of Legends, War Thunder, etc etc etc....


A good Arena system would do nothing but enhance PVP, while also increasing subscriptions!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#742 - 2014-03-29 16:17:37 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Kyperion wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Same way they have killed pvp in every single other MMO that added them. If you want arena pvp you go play one of those other countless MMOs that has it.

Oh, like all those other MMO's that have way more subscribers??

Or other PVP MMO's that are entirely based on arena combat? World of tanks, World of Warplanes, Mech Warrior Online, League of Legends, War Thunder, etc etc etc....


A good Arena system would do nothing but enhance PVP, while also increasing subscriptions!


It would suck all pvp into it in ever greater numbers. There is not a single case where arenas have not killed pvp outside of them.

EVE will never have arenas. They do not fit and they will gut the game. I will keep this game which, unlike all of those other games, has done nothing but grow for over decade.
Kyperion
#743 - 2014-03-29 16:36:19 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Same way they have killed pvp in every single other MMO that added them. If you want arena pvp you go play one of those other countless MMOs that has it.

Oh, like all those other MMO's that have way more subscribers??

Or other PVP MMO's that are entirely based on arena combat? World of tanks, World of Warplanes, Mech Warrior Online, League of Legends, War Thunder, etc etc etc....


A good Arena system would do nothing but enhance PVP, while also increasing subscriptions!


It would suck all pvp into it in ever greater numbers. There is not a single case where arenas have not killed pvp outside of them.

EVE will never have arenas. They do not fit and they will gut the game. I will keep this game which, unlike all of those other games, has done nothing but grow for over decade.


Most of those games haven't been around for a decade, and expansion/contraction are normal periods in most businesses.

The rate of 'growth' of EVE has been a very slow crawl.
stoicfaux
#744 - 2014-03-29 17:16:05 UTC
EVE is supposed to be about empire building, not mindless gutter fights.

The only difference between random PvP and backyard Hobo fights is that one breaks the ToS and one doesn't.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#745 - 2014-03-29 21:49:00 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
EVE is supposed to be about empire building, not mindless gutter fights.




Maybe but of late there is a lot of people pushing a multiple short engagement PvP attitude that dates all the way back to Quake, UT, Tribes and Counterstrike.
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#746 - 2014-03-29 22:00:41 UTC
As noted and as what been said, there will allways be changes in one or the other direction, some will like it, others will not. but either way, i can only show my discontent with this upcomming change, and have of now canceled my subscription, i am only one person, and im just a carebear, so im sure its no loss ;P

That said i have a billions in isk that i can use to fuel my play free with plex... but point is, i wont pay my real money for a game that will take away the platform I ENJOY. we pay for what we like !
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#747 - 2014-03-29 22:01:40 UTC
So srs now, who here believes that this will seriously affect hi-sec mission runners as an aggregate demographic?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#748 - 2014-03-29 22:04:35 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
So srs now, who here believes that this will seriously affect hi-sec mission runners as an aggregate demographic?

Isn't that a bit unfair a question? I can't think of anything more heterogenous than highsec mission runners, so I seriously doubt they even exist as any kind of aggregate demographic to begin with…
Grookshank
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#749 - 2014-03-29 22:06:03 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
So srs now, who here believes that this will seriously affect hi-sec mission runners as an aggregate demographic?

It does not hurt them all. It hurts people that used to loot/salvage. It does not hurt the ones that blitz.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#750 - 2014-03-29 22:19:22 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
So srs now, who here believes that this will seriously affect hi-sec mission runners as an aggregate demographic?


You are asking this question, why?
Of course it is going to affect mission runners, big time.

It is very simple to see how much.
You get one of the dev's to see how much loot is refined in high sec over the previous 6 months.
The vast majority of that comes from missions.
Then factor in how much ISK was generated by high sec mission runners in the same period.
You can even get them to check how much LP was also generated. Assume 1000/ LP, because contrary to what the null sec cartel propagandists say, most people don't get 2000 plus/LP.

You then have the 3 legs to mission running, and can build a simple pie chart.

But there is zero chance this will happen, because it would punch holes in oh so many platforms to wreck high sec.
Faux Sho
Umbra Victoria
#751 - 2014-03-29 22:24:34 UTC
Minty Aroma wrote:
Does anyone actually loot anymore in highsec - blitzing SoE missions makes tons more than looting ever does- why would you bother?



Yes some do; I do.

I've yet to run SOE missions. Never really appealed to me.

I'm just trying to get setup on running level 4's with close by jump clones to feed my future pvp fun.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#752 - 2014-03-29 22:35:39 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
You are asking this question, why?
Because there's very little to suggest that it'll affect mission runners as an aggregate demographic. Simply because there are so many ways in which it will completely pass by vast portions of that demographic.

Quote:
It is very simple to see how much.
You get one of the dev's to see how much loot is refined in high sec over the previous 6 months.
The vast majority of that comes from missions.
Then factor in how much ISK was generated by high sec mission runners in the same period.
You can even get them to check how much LP was also generated. Assume 1000/ LP, because contrary to what the null sec cartel propagandists say, most people don't get 2000 plus/LP.
…and how does any of that show that mission-runners, as a whole, would be seriously affected by this change? Most of what you listed don't even have anything to do with it, and the one thing that does is left so devoid of context and meaning that it tells us nothing either.
Faux Sho
Umbra Victoria
#753 - 2014-03-29 22:38:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Faux Sho
Malcanis wrote:
So srs now, who here believes that this will seriously affect hi-sec mission runners as an aggregate demographic?


I don't see it affecting me much at all. I do not blitz because I do not have the skills yet. Once I do have the skills most of my time will be spent Shadow Creeping Goon space. Loot and salvage are nice at this point, but getting 50k Isk compared to 25k isk for the same minerals isn't going to affect me in the long run.

If anything, it's the travel time to get a decent price that is more detrimental to my very sorry isk/hr at this time. But hey, it's a pvp game, why not pvp isk/hr?
Deunan Tenephais
#754 - 2014-03-30 00:30:34 UTC
As I see it mission runners will be less affected than looters/salvagers, like the Pro-Sinergy guys.
Refining low meta stuff may have been a small part of their income but it was still part of it, and the profession does not pay so well that it must be made more unglamorous.

But the problem does not lie in the low value of refined meta 0/1/2/3 modules, but in their lack of usefulness in fitting.
Seriously, beside strange stats artifacts or cheap frigate/dessie fitting, why would someone not use a meta 4 ?

These modules need to be made useful, and their value will go up accordingly.
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#755 - 2014-03-30 00:40:48 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


Same way they have killed pvp in every single other MMO that added them. If you want arena pvp you go play one of those other countless MMOs that has it.

in city of heroes arenas were only used for erotic roleplay
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#756 - 2014-03-30 00:50:58 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Same way they have killed pvp in every single other MMO that added them. If you want arena pvp you go play one of those other countless MMOs that has it.

in city of heroes arenas were only used for erotic roleplay


*shudder* Can we get back to the topic, if you please? That being Dinsdale tears.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#757 - 2014-03-30 00:51:02 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
So srs now, who here believes that this will seriously affect hi-sec mission runners as an aggregate demographic?

Who it actually hurts are the corps who found emergent game play around providing a looting & salvaging service to mission runners who just wanted to blitz. Is this worth the other aspects of this change? I don't know. But it does hurt people pushing emergent game play which is a bad aspect.
Sarah McKnobbo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#758 - 2014-03-30 00:52:52 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
So srs now, who here believes that this will seriously affect hi-sec mission runners as an aggregate demographic?


You are asking this question, why?
Of course it is going to affect mission runners, big time.

It is very simple to see how much.
You get one of the dev's to see how much loot is refined in high sec over the previous 6 months.
The vast majority of that comes from missions.
Then factor in how much ISK was generated by high sec mission runners in the same period.
You can even get them to check how much LP was also generated. Assume 1000/ LP, because contrary to what the null sec cartel propagandists say, most people don't get 2000 plus/LP.

You then have the 3 legs to mission running, and can build a simple pie chart.

But there is zero chance this will happen, because it would punch holes in oh so many platforms to wreck high sec.


And where is the plain, hard evidence to back up your argument? Wild conspiricies, accusations and name calling is all I can see so far.
Zari Otoshi
Nil Gates
#759 - 2014-03-30 01:29:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Zari Otoshi
Sarah McKnobbo wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
So srs now, who here believes that this will seriously affect hi-sec mission runners as an aggregate demographic?


You are asking this question, why?
Of course it is going to affect mission runners, big time.

It is very simple to see how much.
You get one of the dev's to see how much loot is refined in high sec over the previous 6 months.
The vast majority of that comes from missions.
Then factor in how much ISK was generated by high sec mission runners in the same period.
You can even get them to check how much LP was also generated. Assume 1000/ LP, because contrary to what the null sec cartel propagandists say, most people don't get 2000 plus/LP.

You then have the 3 legs to mission running, and can build a simple pie chart.

But there is zero chance this will happen, because it would punch holes in oh so many platforms to wreck high sec.


And where is the plain, hard evidence to back up your argument? Wild conspiricies, accusations and name calling is all I can see so far.


The plain hard evidence was given to you by CCP. They are nerfing mod melting by a significant %. ANYONE who rats/missions in high sec, if they have a brain loots and salvages. You make isk from selling salvage. You make isk from getting minerals from rat loot. My salvage/refiner alt that cleaned up my missions netted me 500m+ a day alone. When I moved to null, just running anoms in non drone space made me billions with melted rat loot. Cant tell you how many carriers and BS'es were made with melted mods out in null. Im not complaining mind you, im fine with these changes as my gameplay has evolved from just mission running and ratting in anoms. Just answering your question by telling you the fact that CCP has stated they are nerfing MCH and loot melting IS your evidence.
Mario Putzo
#760 - 2014-03-30 01:30:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Tippia wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
You are asking this question, why?
Because there's very little to suggest that it'll affect mission runners as an aggregate demographic. Simply because there are so many ways in which it will completely pass by vast portions of that demographic.

Quote:
It is very simple to see how much.
You get one of the dev's to see how much loot is refined in high sec over the previous 6 months.
The vast majority of that comes from missions.
Then factor in how much ISK was generated by high sec mission runners in the same period.
You can even get them to check how much LP was also generated. Assume 1000/ LP, because contrary to what the null sec cartel propagandists say, most people don't get 2000 plus/LP.
…and how does any of that show that mission-runners, as a whole, would be seriously affected by this change? Most of what you listed don't even have anything to do with it, and the one thing that does is left so devoid of context and meaning that it tells us nothing either.


While I think Dinsdale if over estimating the amount of ISK generated for mission runners, the fact that reprocessed loot does provide a significant amount of minerals for the market (be it direct to the market or minerals not being bought off existing market) is of serious concern.

CCP should give us some detailed information on just where and in what quantities minerals are coming from. I am going to say around 30% of all minerals in the game are sourced from npc dropped/pc dropped loot reprocessing, especially mid-high tier minerals that are not as common due to their source locations being unpopular mining regions (lowsec/nullsec).

To somewhat quantify Dinsdales numbers though, around a third of all my mission income comes from loot (about 80m/hr total atm), and this is from me doing nonstop missions and cleaning up on my alt. Could I make more blitzing, yes, but my current skills don't allow me to blitz most of the missions. Granted the ones I do Blitz I don't bother cleaning up, and are responsible for greatly boosting my overall isk/hr (as has been said blitzing is the way to make isk)