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An Announcement Regarding Real Life Harassment

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Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#1421 - 2014-03-29 18:00:01 UTC
Jayem See wrote:
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
Jayem See wrote:


This argument has been done to death. Most people's objections have nothing to do with being scammed, ransomed or even ransomed and then ganked.

Most people's objections come down to the continued application of pressure after the event. I am sorry you find it normal to behave that way - a lot of people don't.


I see the bonus room as a continuation of a scam, the victim fell for the isk doubling trick a few dozen times, so the scammer proceeds to relieve him of everything he owns - via scamming. The pressure is part of the scam and part of the game.


Except the scam has been completed. The rest of the events that take place are purely for the pleasure of the protagonists.

Erotica1 already came out and said that if he didn't continue the charade then it would be instantly outed as a scam and he couldn't have that. Otherwise his reputation would be for nothing.

The application of pressure to maintain one's reputation (in order to keep maintining the scam), regardless of the distress of the victim is what some people objectionable.


That is a valid way of seeing it. Erotica1 can never admit to scamming, so she puts the victim into an unwinnable "game" for him to lose. Thereby maintaining the illusion of the scam.

But in a universe such as Eve where scamming and all forms of in-game disruptive play is allowed as part of inter-player hostilities, is such pressure when applied to scamming a victim undue or even unexpected?

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Vara Vampira
Fwehman Brothers Holdings
#1422 - 2014-03-29 18:00:21 UTC
So what I am getting from this...If i know an EVE Player outside of game. And we meet somewhere and I start making fun of him and "harassing" him for being a carebear and horrible at something, this would provoke CCP to ban me?
Drone 16
Holy Horde
#1423 - 2014-03-29 18:01:18 UTC
Vara Vampira wrote:
So what I am getting from this...If i know an EVE Player outside of game. And we meet somewhere and I start making fun of him and "harassing" him for being a carebear and horrible at something, this would provoke CCP to ban me?


No

It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits
olan2005
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1424 - 2014-03-29 18:01:28 UTC
Danalee wrote:
olan2005 wrote:
3rd party being keyword. It was erotica1 himself who published the evidence to damn him , jester put that evidence in his blog, put erotica1 posted and recorded the ts himself. making it 1st party evidence


Wait what?! Erotica = EVE ONLINE, The game?

What trickery is this? Are we all in the matrix or something?

D.

Bear

Edit: 3rd party = Teamspeak, facebook, blogs, etc...


thats 3rd pary software , The publication in question was first party. As in the player who got banned published the evidence himself. Its like a criminal taking A selfy in the middle of a crime . You can bet the prosecutor and cops would use it in court
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#1425 - 2014-03-29 18:01:55 UTC
Vara Vampira wrote:
So what I am getting from this...If i know an EVE Player outside of game. And we meet somewhere and I start making fun of him and "harassing" him for being a carebear and horrible at something, this would provoke CCP to ban me?

Yes. Immediately. Maybe sooner.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#1426 - 2014-03-29 18:02:01 UTC
Vara Vampira wrote:
So what I am getting from this...If i know an EVE Player outside of game. And we meet somewhere and I start making fun of him and "harassing" him for being a carebear and horrible at something, this would provoke CCP to ban me?


He could go to his local authorities to get you to stop harassing him, or even file a suit against you. I'm not sure how the game development company that you all play with can get involved.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#1427 - 2014-03-29 18:02:39 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Jayem See wrote:
1. If a non Eve player starts something then CCP can't do anything because they have no action available to them.
No, but they are still defaming EVE right? So CCP would want to react.

Jayem See wrote:
2. Personal attacks (say throwing out 15 responses on a forum) do not have the same invested, intense and unpleasant effects that Erotica1's bonus room have.
Why not? Someone could hound another player on a forum or a blog, and they could even do so after scamming them out of some stuff. Why does it matter if it was on voice comms or not? The situation is still the exact same thing. At no point does the "victim" have his freedom to simply walk away taken from him.

Jayem See wrote:
3. If someone is harrassing someone on Twitter is a matter for Twitter (and or the authorities) and not CCP.
And if someone is harassing someone else on teamspeak, that's not a matter for CCP, that's a matter for the authorities and the owner of the specific teamspeak server. How can you not see that this is absolutely identical?

Jayem See wrote:
Clear enough for you?
Clear as mud, thanks.


1. They might want to defend their player but they have literally no action available to them as the person is a non-Eve player.

2. If someone can manage the level of intensity that Ero1 managed, by posting on a forum, I would be amazed. The whole reason that Ero1's scam worked is because of being on comms.

3. The reason that this matters is because the whole point of the bonus room is to break someone into leaving. This matters because Ero1 operates within the Eve universe. His victims are Eve players, the reason for making it so intense is to protect his reputation so that he can continue to perpetuate the scam.

Them's the apples.

Aaaaaaand relax.
olan2005
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1428 - 2014-03-29 18:05:17 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Darkopus wrote:
but in this case it was done in the name of EVE saying it was part of the game. Thus CCP as any good comopany trying to protect its integrity and reputation looked at it, and their evaluation was "this is too far and could damage us, bring EVE and CCP into potential disrepute" and so they dealt with it.

If all this bonus bullshit was done entirely inside EVE, no recordings made public and done as a true in game in character scam do you think this conversation would be happening.

Some sicko's couldn't understand where the game ends and thus stepped opver the mark and got bitchslapped by the "owners" of the sandbox. Now their sycophant followers can't hack this and are feeding us all their tears.

You can play at whatever floats your boat in this sandbox, but you take it somewhere that CCP doesn't like and do so in the name of the game when what you are doing is nothing to do with the game and everything to do with publically humiliating the actual person driving the character rather than the character then you will get squeezed.

The problem is that the sociopaths of this game simply can't draw the line and think they are being clever in their sick games and then when CCP slats them out of the sand go all huffy. Now they come and cry tears saying they want clear definitions only to enable them to work out how they can circumvent them and continue there sick deranged games. Deal with it you tearful pubbies
OK, so what if a non-eve player takes EVE players into TS rooms and harasses them? Or joins in on EVE players in public TS chatroom and harasses them? Are CCP going to step in there? No.

What about if (or in the hundreds of occasions this has happened in the past) an EVE player on a third party blog or forum throws personal attacks at another EVE player, are they going to step in? No.
What about if someone were to harass another EVE player on twitter? No, they wouldn't.

The fact is they've stated on many occasions that they do not deal with third party services. Read Remiels blog, and you'll see pretty damn clearly what their response is. So if they are doing so now, their rules have changed, so where is the new line. What is and isn't considered third party to EVE?

By the way, it's all well and good for you to just insult everyone who isn't agreeing with you, but how the **** does that make you any different? Hypocrite.


only if your stupid enough to publish said insults yourself and there severe enough to warrant it . Erotica1 when out of his way to brag about it . Provided the evidence that damned him. himself. Get it yet . If you gunna use 3rd party software ,sites to be a ass, DONT SPREAD IT ALL OVER THE INTERNET , then the likely hood CCP will intervene is minimal
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#1429 - 2014-03-29 18:05:50 UTC
Drone 16 wrote:
Oh it's the "what if" guy that pestered Malcanis out of the thread last night. What if you take your myriad of questions to a GM or start a bonus room and see how far you can push it until you reach THE LINE. Why pester innocent Eve folk with you incessant neediness?

Take some responsibility for yourself and go find THE LINE. Why are you such a follower that you need your betters to explain it all to you?
What if I continue to express myself however and wherever I like?

I happen to believe it's not a responsible decision to state that nothing changed, yet clearly ban someone for something that was not an issue last month, then state absolutely no idea of where the new line stands. Some people seem to think it covers all situations where anything out of game is requested, some seem to think it only covers teamspeak, some think it covers only extreme situations.

It's in the players best interests to get a straight answer from CCP, and if it wasn't for the fact that you guys have such a hate on for Erotica 1, you'd be bitching at CCP for exactly the same reasons. I know this, because this is always the response. If CCP even release a tiny patch to change the spelling of a tutorial mission half the community flies of the handle about how CCP aren't being specific enough.

If you don't like it, that's your problem. Deal with it, and the "report post button is up there /\ if you feel I should be made to shut up.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Surtr Svartalfsen
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1430 - 2014-03-29 18:06:04 UTC
Dorn Val wrote:
Surtr Svartalfsen wrote:
As a female Eve player and a gamer of over 30 years, I expect and tolerate a large amount of what might normally be considered harassment.


If you ever want to get into W space then put in an application with Probe Patrol. Flying with female pilots is no big deal for us (we have one in the corp currently, and we've been in alliances with several). They are every bit as good in PVP as their male counterparts.



Probe Patrol rocks. I was renting one of your C2 WH and really liked the pilots. My old corp is still there. I gave away my toons sine I wasnt getting any satisfaction from CCP about my issue. I even had letters from other pilots supporting my cause and saying that the dude was over the top.

I'm still waiting for some sort of response from CCP, but am feeling a bit bent out of shape since I can't use my old toons that I'd trained for over a year a each. I think my request for toon renaming was very reasonable.
Darkopus
Perkone
Caldari State
#1431 - 2014-03-29 18:09:04 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Darkopus wrote:
but in this case it was done in the name of EVE saying it was part of the game. Thus CCP as any good comopany trying to protect its integrity and reputation looked at it, and their evaluation was "this is too far and could damage us, bring EVE and CCP into potential disrepute" and so they dealt with it.

If all this bonus bullshit was done entirely inside EVE, no recordings made public and done as a true in game in character scam do you think this conversation would be happening.

Some sicko's couldn't understand where the game ends and thus stepped opver the mark and got bitchslapped by the "owners" of the sandbox. Now their sycophant followers can't hack this and are feeding us all their tears.

You can play at whatever floats your boat in this sandbox, but you take it somewhere that CCP doesn't like and do so in the name of the game when what you are doing is nothing to do with the game and everything to do with publically humiliating the actual person driving the character rather than the character then you will get squeezed.

The problem is that the sociopaths of this game simply can't draw the line and think they are being clever in their sick games and then when CCP slats them out of the sand go all huffy. Now they come and cry tears saying they want clear definitions only to enable them to work out how they can circumvent them and continue there sick deranged games. Deal with it you tearful pubbies
OK, so what if a non-eve player takes EVE players into TS rooms and harasses them? Or joins in on EVE players in public TS chatroom and harasses them? Are CCP going to step in there? No.

What about if (or in the hundreds of occasions this has happened in the past) an EVE player on a third party blog or forum throws personal attacks at another EVE player, are they going to step in? No.
What about if someone were to harass another EVE player on twitter? No, they wouldn't.

The fact is they've stated on many occasions that they do not deal with third party services. Read Remiels blog, and you'll see pretty damn clearly what their response is. So if they are doing so now, their rules have changed, so where is the new line. What is and isn't considered third party to EVE?

By the way, it's all well and good for you to just insult everyone who isn't agreeing with you, but how the **** does that make you any different? Hypocrite.


Ah now the tears have a somewhat bitterness to them..........................

you are comparing apples with oranges.

This whole bonus room farce was done and touted as being part of EVE. Thats what you were all screaming in threadnaught version 1. Its game related so its not harrasment because eve is a dark place.

OK so please explain to me what asking someone to smear mayon on their body has to do with internet spaceships, also what has telling your victim to give his wife a paperbag to breathe into to calm her down got to do with internet spaceships............

You see this is where it crosses the lines of the game. The E1 camp was al loud and vocal about how this was Eve and Eve is dark and dangerous, yet those actions described above have nothing to do with the game at all. All you are trying to do now is wash that part out as if its not relevant to the topic in hand when it is the key issue that differentiates what is game and what is just someone getting perverse kicks out of mentally distressing another "real person". Not a character a person.

So yeah carry on trying to justify it with your non related case studies all you like, but no one with a shred of human decency will fall for your level of bullshit
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#1432 - 2014-03-29 18:09:12 UTC
olan2005 wrote:
only if your stupid enough to publish said insults yourself and there severe enough to warrant it . Erotica1 when out of his way to brag about it . Provided the evidence that damned him. himself. Get it yet . If you gunna use 3rd party software ,sites to be a ass, DONT SPREAD IT ALL OVER THE INTERNET , then the likely hood CCP will intervene is minimal
So your stance is "harassing other players is fine, just don't publicise it". Righto, I'll add that the the ever growing list of individual interpretations of their ruling.

Just FYI, Erotica 1's evidence also showed the "victim" hurling real life death threats and racial abuse, as well as several other people on the bonus room side. Seems strange they were so selective in the interpretation of the evidence. It almost seems like they weren't even responding to the evidence at all, but to the public outcry and the CSM with a personal vendetta.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#1433 - 2014-03-29 18:11:26 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
olan2005 wrote:
only if your stupid enough to publish said insults yourself and there severe enough to warrant it . Erotica1 when out of his way to brag about it . Provided the evidence that damned him. himself. Get it yet . If you gunna use 3rd party software ,sites to be a ass, DONT SPREAD IT ALL OVER THE INTERNET , then the likely hood CCP will intervene is minimal
So your stance is "harassing other players is fine, just don't publicise it". Righto, I'll add that the the ever growing list of individual interpretations of their ruling.

Just FYI, Erotica 1's evidence also showed the "victim" hurling real life death threats and racial abuse, as well as several other people on the bonus room side. Seems strange they were so selective in the interpretation of the evidence. It almost seems like they weren't even responding to the evidence at all, but to the public outcry and the CSM with a personal vendetta.


I've been purposely trying to avoid saying that. I knew somebody would though. Big smile

Aaaaaaand relax.
olan2005
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1434 - 2014-03-29 18:12:32 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
olan2005 wrote:
only if your stupid enough to publish said insults yourself and there severe enough to warrant it . Erotica1 when out of his way to brag about it . Provided the evidence that damned him. himself. Get it yet . If you gunna use 3rd party software ,sites to be a ass, DONT SPREAD IT ALL OVER THE INTERNET , then the likely hood CCP will intervene is minimal
So your stance is "harassing other players is fine, just don't publicise it". Righto, I'll add that the the ever growing list of individual interpretations of their ruling.

Just FYI, Erotica 1's evidence also showed the "victim" hurling real life death threats and racial abuse, as well as several other people on the bonus room side. Seems strange they were so selective in the interpretation of the evidence. It almost seems like they weren't even responding to the evidence at all, but to the public outcry and the CSM with a personal vendetta.


No its not alright . It still being a punch of Narcissistic prick. However without evidence provided by the perpetrator it will be a hell of a lot harder for them to intervene
Vara Vampira
Fwehman Brothers Holdings
#1435 - 2014-03-29 18:13:25 UTC
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
Vara Vampira wrote:
So what I am getting from this...If i know an EVE Player outside of game. And we meet somewhere and I start making fun of him and "harassing" him for being a carebear and horrible at something, this would provoke CCP to ban me?


He could go to his local authorities to get you to stop harassing him, or even file a suit against you. I'm not sure how the game development company that you all play with can get involved.


local authorities I would understand of getting involved if it gets to that level. However if CCP decides to play the role of my mum in the IRL world then I would need a prompt ban and a boot out the door.

The root cause of all these posts (Erotica's bonus rooms) Never reached the level that would Require CCP to intervene. Why now make up some new rules that would ban quite a few players. No more singing ransoms, etc.
Unless its death threats or life threatening CCP needs to GTFO on the matter.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#1436 - 2014-03-29 18:13:33 UTC
Darkopus wrote:
Ah now the tears have a somewhat bitterness to them..........................

you are comparing apples with oranges.

This whole bonus room farce was done and touted as being part of EVE. Thats what you were all screaming in threadnaught version 1. Its game related so its not harrasment because eve is a dark place.

OK so please explain to me what asking someone to smear mayon on their body has to do with internet spaceships, also what has telling your victim to give his wife a paperbag to breathe into to calm her down got to do with internet spaceships............

You see this is where it crosses the lines of the game. The E1 camp was al loud and vocal about how this was Eve and Eve is dark and dangerous, yet those actions described above have nothing to do with the game at all. All you are trying to do now is wash that part out as if its not relevant to the topic in hand when it is the key issue that differentiates what is game and what is just someone getting perverse kicks out of mentally distressing another "real person". Not a character a person.

So yeah carry on trying to justify it with your non related case studies all you like, but no one with a shred of human decency will fall for your level of bullshit
Oh OK, so you agree with me? Good.

Let me quote you again for clarity:
Darkopus wrote:
so please explain to me what asking someone to smear mayon on their body has to do with internet spaceships, also what has telling your victim to give his wife a paperbag to breathe into to calm her down got to do with internet spaceships
So yes, what does that have to do with internet spaceships? It doesn't have anything at all to do with internet spaceships, so CCP has absolutely no reason to step into it, since it has nothing to do with them. In the exact same way that personal attacks on twitter have nothing to do with them.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Dorn Val
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1437 - 2014-03-29 18:16:19 UTC
Surtr Svartalfsen wrote:
Dorn Val wrote:
Surtr Svartalfsen wrote:
As a female Eve player and a gamer of over 30 years, I expect and tolerate a large amount of what might normally be considered harassment.


If you ever want to get into W space then put in an application with Probe Patrol. Flying with female pilots is no big deal for us (we have one in the corp currently, and we've been in alliances with several). They are every bit as good in PVP as their male counterparts.



Probe Patrol rocks. I was renting one of your C2 WH and really liked the pilots. My old corp is still there. I gave away my toons sine I wasnt getting any satisfaction from CCP about my issue. I even had letters from other pilots supporting my cause and saying that the dude was over the top.

I'm still waiting for some sort of response from CCP, but am feeling a bit bent out of shape since I can't use my old toons that I'd trained for over a year a each. I think my request for toon renaming was very reasonable.


If this incident hasn't soured you on the game then you're always welcome in Probe Patrol. I'd hate to see someone drummed out of Eve.

Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate...
Jayem See
Perkone
Caldari State
#1438 - 2014-03-29 18:17:07 UTC
Quote:
In the exact same way that personal attacks on twitter have nothing to do with them.



Seems you have discounted one of your own points by agreeing with me.

Aaaaaaand relax.
Darkopus
Perkone
Caldari State
#1439 - 2014-03-29 18:17:26 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Darkopus wrote:
Ah now the tears have a somewhat bitterness to them..........................

you are comparing apples with oranges.

This whole bonus room farce was done and touted as being part of EVE. Thats what you were all screaming in threadnaught version 1. Its game related so its not harrasment because eve is a dark place.

OK so please explain to me what asking someone to smear mayon on their body has to do with internet spaceships, also what has telling your victim to give his wife a paperbag to breathe into to calm her down got to do with internet spaceships............

You see this is where it crosses the lines of the game. The E1 camp was al loud and vocal about how this was Eve and Eve is dark and dangerous, yet those actions described above have nothing to do with the game at all. All you are trying to do now is wash that part out as if its not relevant to the topic in hand when it is the key issue that differentiates what is game and what is just someone getting perverse kicks out of mentally distressing another "real person". Not a character a person.

So yeah carry on trying to justify it with your non related case studies all you like, but no one with a shred of human decency will fall for your level of bullshit
Oh OK, so you agree with me? Good.

Let me quote you again for clarity:
Darkopus wrote:
so please explain to me what asking someone to smear mayon on their body has to do with internet spaceships, also what has telling your victim to give his wife a paperbag to breathe into to calm her down got to do with internet spaceships
So yes, what does that have to do with internet spaceships? It doesn't have anything at all to do with internet spaceships, so CCP has absolutely no reason to step into it, since it has nothing to do with them. In the exact same way that personal attacks on twitter have nothing to do with them.


CCP has every right because what was done was in the name of EVE, the EVE IP was used to instigate the entire affair, CCP have a right to protect their IP and their reputation. It was posted on EVE-O forums and was inextricably linked to the game. Again your apologist tears will fuel my jump drive for the next 3 months at this rate
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#1440 - 2014-03-29 18:17:46 UTC
olan2005 wrote:
No its not alright . It still being a punch of Narcissistic prick. However without evidence provided by the perpetrator it will be a hell of a lot harder for them to intervene
So then their rules should state that. They shouldn't pretend nothing has changed, then ban someone for doing something that was fine last month. They also shouldn't ignore the other highly rule breaking behaviour on that very same recording, and they shouldn't be stating that they do not deal with third party communications, then base a ban off of them.

As Remiel has stated, it's not about the decision they have taken, nobody blames them for thinking Erotica 1 has broken some rules, but they need to consistently enforce them. All they;ve done here is shown that a CSM with a vendetta and a screaming public gets them to take action, while the act of actually harassing someone does not.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.