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Khanid, Blood Raider link?
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Lancashirian
New Eden Ballistics
#1 - 2011-11-27 07:05:18 UTC
So, I've been in and out of Khanid Space for years now, and for some reason, I just realized that the Khanid Customs Frigates at stargates are Blood Raider Cruor frigates. Does anyone think this could suggest a link between the Khanid Monarchy and the Blood Raiders? After all, until VERY recently, the Kingdom and the Empire did not get along very well at all, which suggests that the Khanid Kingdom may have supported the Blood Raiders against the Empire. Yes, I know that Blood Raiders are pirates in Khanid Space as well...
Weiland Taur
The Icarus Expedition
Solyaris Chtonium
#2 - 2011-11-27 13:45:28 UTC
While you make an interesting observation the root of Khanid secession from the Empire was the Khanid Heir’s inability to follow the rules of succession. He apparently felt that committing ritual suicide after failing to secure the throne was too much to ask. The Amarr have had a serious problem as of late with following tradition, their newest Empress being a glaring example.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#3 - 2011-11-27 14:02:11 UTC
The Khanid are arms dealers. In the descriptions of EoM ships, a correlation between their ships and the Khanid ships is also noted. Likely, because the Khanid will sell arms to anyone..

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Lucius Vindictus
Arachnos
#4 - 2011-11-29 02:27:10 UTC
Blood raiders use Amarrrian designs as the base for their own all the time. Why should they have any qualms against using a Khanid design too?
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#5 - 2011-11-29 22:48:12 UTC
Blood Raider, definitely not.

But i contend a definite possibility that Khanid II is Sabik, old School Black-Nobility style Sabik...or at the very least has very strong leanings towards them and Tetrimon cults. His utter disregard for the 'establishment' (theology council, succession suicide ritual, etc) put in place after the moral reforms would jive with this.

But then again each Royal family does have their own proclivities...

Let's just hope when they find out Jamyl is an abomination he steps in and takes control :)

Sabik now, Sabik forever
Publius Valerius
AirGuard
LowSechnaya Sholupen
#6 - 2011-11-30 09:27:23 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:

Let's just hope when they find out Jamyl is an abomination he steps in and takes control :)



I wouldnt use the word abomination... I would say (be aware, Empyrean Age SPOILER) a non-human or maybe in a extrem case even JoveP

But I really contend against the idea that Khanid could be a Sabik (and what is a old School Black-Nobility style Sabik. Roll ). I would say he is maybe even not really religious deep inside. I mean in may opinion, as former commander-in-chief of the Amarr Navy, he could be more a Realpolitiker. And in this case the Cult of Tetrimon can be activ in the Khanid Kingdom is not a sign for his leaning toward them, as more a sign for his opposition the Heideran.

Thast my 50 centsLol

I would love to have those classes ingame. See here:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/376566/march-07-2011/joshua-foer
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#7 - 2011-11-30 14:07:32 UTC
Publius Valerius wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:

Let's just hope when they find out Jamyl is an abomination he steps in and takes control :)



I wouldnt use the word abomination... I would say (be aware, Empyrean Age SPOILER) a non-human or maybe in a extrem case even JoveP

But I really contend against the idea that Khanid could be a Sabik (and what is a old School Black-Nobility style Sabik. Roll ). I would say he is maybe even not really religious deep inside. I mean in may opinion, as former commander-in-chief of the Amarr Navy, he could be more a Realpolitiker. And in this case the Cult of Tetrimon can be activ in the Khanid Kingdom is not a sign for his leaning toward them, as more a sign for his opposition the Heideran.

Thast my 50 centsLol


Realpolitik might be the better phrase, good observation.

The Sabiks are different than the blood raiders. Sabiks were the original upper nobility out for personal gain and empowerment. Think Illuminatis, behind-the-scenes power brokers, that sort of thing. That the King is known for some debauchery I thought might play well into that.

For Tetrimon, the cult actively worked against the theology council and the current incarnation of the imperial Emperor system, and Khanid shielded them and let them settle/live in the Kingdom for years. I suppose we can take that as either supporting them, or more realpolitik :)

Still the man is a cunning operator which is I think why so many of us like the story.

Sabik now, Sabik forever
Louella Dougans
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
#8 - 2011-11-30 16:59:53 UTC
blood raiders use amarr hulls as a base for some of their ships, doesn't mean they're in league with the amarr navy.

so using a khanid hull as a base for the cruor is similarly not necessarily important. Just shows the blood raiders are active in more places i think.

Be a Space Nun, it is fun. \o/
Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
#9 - 2011-12-01 18:40:57 UTC
Roga Dracor wrote:
The Khanid are arms dealers. In the descriptions of EoM ships, a correlation between their ships and the Khanid ships is also noted. Likely, because the Khanid will sell arms to anyone..


I like this observation. Perhaps calling them arms dealers isn't broad enough, as the Khanid are generally known as being willing to bend the rules slightly in many areas, but the EoM ships are most certainly an example of the Kingdom doing some shadier business.

My own inclination is to run with the idea that they've essentially blended Amarr and Caldari culture to such an extent that common traits such as loyalty and militancy are taken to an extreme, while some of the more conflicting aspects like adherence to traditional religious doctrine are less important.

The more I think on it, realpolitik is a great way to define the Khanid. Those loyal to Khanid II (which admittedly won't be everyone of Khanid descent) will do what is necessary to serve the cause, traditions be damned.
Publius Valerius
AirGuard
LowSechnaya Sholupen
#10 - 2011-12-02 00:31:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Publius Valerius
Esan Vartesa wrote:
Roga Dracor wrote:
The Khanid are arms dealers. In the descriptions of EoM ships, a correlation between their ships and the Khanid ships is also noted. Likely, because the Khanid will sell arms to anyone..


I like this observation. Perhaps calling them arms dealers isn't broad enough, as the Khanid are generally known as being willing to bend the rules slightly in many areas, but the EoM ships are most certainly an example of the Kingdom doing some shadier business.

My own inclination is to run with the idea that they've essentially blended Amarr and Caldari culture to such an extent that common traits such as loyalty and militancy are taken to an extreme, while some of the more conflicting aspects like adherence to traditional religious doctrine are less important.

The more I think on it, realpolitik is a great way to define the Khanid. Those loyal to Khanid II (which admittedly won't be everyone of Khanid descent) will do what is necessary to serve the cause, traditions be damned.


Yeep I see it the same way.. I mean How religous can some be in a Kingdom uniform with a sign on it whats says "Man's law is better than God's law", and I think you have made a good point with the caldari and the aspect "loyalty and militancy".

And thats what I´m work a little.... I have some Ideas about mancur olson
http://www.svt.ntnu.no/iss/Indra.de.Soysa/POL3503H05/olson.pdf
Qute:"In my student days, in reading Edward Banfield's (1958) account of the beliefs of the people in a poor village in Southern Italy, I came upon a remarkable statement by a village monarchist. He said, "Monarchy is the best kind of government because the King is then owner of the country. Like the owner of a house, when the wiring is wrong, he fixes it"

My Idea is the go back to Olson in full... with transactioncost... that in democracy are they lower... as in other forms... and in the competition of countrys, everyone has to go that way etc.... but here is the point... from that it comes the downfall... what olson also had in: The Rise and Decline of Nations: Economic Growth, Stagflation, and Social Rigidities. With the problem of rend-seeking...

I have an Idea, that maybe Khanid verions... would be go something like this....

natural state/anarchy with roving Bandits -> the first blessing of the invisible hand: the rational, self-interested leader of a band of roving bandits is led, as though by an invisible hand, to settle down, wear a crown, and replace anarchy with
government is than a "stationary bandit" -> International competition of nation (in anarchy/I mean even with CONCORDP) lets to that the power goes to the goverment with the lowest transactioncosts of them and thats in a goverment with the "rule of law"/Rechtstaatlichkeit, democracy and free market -> but this nations decline because of rend-seeking etc... about the next step I´m not sure... because... Iw ant go from... the rent-seeking problem ofdemocracy's... to Enlightened absolutism P.S. the english wiki version of this article is just the horror)... I mean a single ruler... like Khanid II... but in a state with the rule of laws... I mean role manP etc...

I have just a problem in the last step.... from decline of democracy's to uprise of enlightened absolutism ... not because of rend-seeking... because an enlightened can just rend-seeking for him self (not even for his family, example see Khanids Family) aka as "First servant of the state" for the unmaterial/umateriälen state (I if you like hobbes... you can say, like by fredrick II,... that the state becomes the unmaterial Leviathan (He/It isnt longer the body of all is supject, which are in the contract of giveing power to each other etcP). My problem is that that the problem is that giveing power to the next first servant, what also Osöen had Sad. Meaning that this goverments have in this point just huge transaction costs... I hope someone can help, that we have a counter weight the Pax Amarria.

I would love to have those classes ingame. See here:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/376566/march-07-2011/joshua-foer