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Advanced spaceship command
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Zenos Ebeth
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-02-28 16:06:24 UTC
Is there any reason for this skill to exist ? I'm looking into capitals and I've noticed that anything that requires advanced spaceship command requires it to level 5 , the first 4 levels are completely useless.
It kind of strikes me as odd as every other skill in the game are beneficial to you even at level 1 , advanced spaceship command on the other hand gives you an agility boost for all the ships that require it per level , but only capital ships require it so you MUST have it to level 5 to use the ship anyway. Did i miss anything that can actually use the first 4 levels of this skills ?

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Shoogie
Serious Pixels
#2 - 2014-02-28 16:19:53 UTC
Freighters used to benefit from this skill--marginally. When they were rebalanced, I think this skill was removed.

Now this skill is basically a time sink to delay people from getting into capital ships more quickly.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#3 - 2014-02-28 18:10:37 UTC  |  Edited by: RavenPaine
It's basically a redundant Capital Ships book.
And odd that it is an agility skill, but not in the Navigation sub-set.

I think everyone views it as a time sync, which imo, makes it a bad/useless skill. Who wants to pay a months sub for a time sync?
A good candidate for SP REIMBURSEMENT !!! Cool
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2014-02-28 23:03:07 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
It's basically a redundant Capital Ships book.
And odd that it is an agility skill, but not in the Navigation sub-set.

I think everyone views it as a time sync, which imo, makes it a bad/useless skill. Who wants to pay a months sub for a time sync?
A good candidate for SP REIMBURSEMENT !!! Cool



It's a month to think about whether or not you should actually fly capital ships. If you can't handle a 1 month investment, you have no business flying anything that large and expensive.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#5 - 2014-02-28 23:42:42 UTC
Dorian Wylde wrote:
RavenPaine wrote:
It's basically a redundant Capital Ships book.
And odd that it is an agility skill, but not in the Navigation sub-set.

I think everyone views it as a time sync, which imo, makes it a bad/useless skill. Who wants to pay a months sub for a time sync?
A good candidate for SP REIMBURSEMENT !!! Cool



It's a month to think about whether or not you should actually fly capital ships. If you can't handle a 1 month investment, you have no business flying anything that large and expensive.



It's not an "investment" into anything. It adds zero value to your piloting skills, or your other current skills.
If you were a crappy Cap pilot the day you inject this skill, you will still be a crappy Cap pilot the day it finishes.
Alice Ituin
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-03-01 12:40:14 UTC
Working as intended.
The whole skill system is designed to be a useless time sink. Keeps people subscribed.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-03-01 14:36:40 UTC
Shoogie wrote:
Freighters used to benefit from this skill--marginally. When they were rebalanced, I think this skill was removed.


Nope, freighters benefit from it but freighters also require it at 5.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#8 - 2014-03-01 16:06:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
Zenos Ebeth wrote:
It kind of strikes me as odd as every other skill in the game are beneficial to you even at level 1 , advanced spaceship command on the other hand gives you an agility boost for all the ships that require it per level , but only capital ships require it so you MUST have it to level 5 to use the ship anyway. Did i miss anything that can actually use the first 4 levels of this skills ?

It used to be different before ship rebalancing, with freighters requiring it at level 1 only. That said, freighters profit from the agility so every dedicated freighter pilot wants it at level 5 anyway.

When CCP set out to rebalance industrials and battleships and the skills that they needed, they reduced some of the skill prerequisites. You used to need racial industrial at 5 for freighters or racial battleship 5 for capitals. This is down to level 3 for both now, to be inline with the rest of the ship skill progression.

To partly compensate for the training time reduction, Advanced Spaceship Command went up to level 5 as a requirement to insert the capital and freighter skills.

It makes this skill look less desireable now, but changing it would mean having to add the training time somewhere else.

Remove standings and insurance.
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-03-07 03:46:21 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
Shoogie wrote:
Freighters used to benefit from this skill--marginally. When they were rebalanced, I think this skill was removed.


Nope, freighters benefit from it but freighters also require it at 5.


If something requires a skill at 5 then its base stats are made with that in mind. Everyone using something that requires 5 will obviously have that skill at 5, so you will have no benefit over anyone else using that thing. There is no benefit to anything when its requirement is 5.

The skill tree could be redone so that nothing had a requirement higher than level 4, except when that thing requires an entirely new skill such as ships and weapons. This would give you a reason to train level 5 to get an edge over someone else and benefit.

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Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#10 - 2014-03-07 14:25:11 UTC
Dorian Wylde wrote:
RavenPaine wrote:
It's basically a redundant Capital Ships book.
And odd that it is an agility skill, but not in the Navigation sub-set.

I think everyone views it as a time sync, which imo, makes it a bad/useless skill. Who wants to pay a months sub for a time sync?
A good candidate for SP REIMBURSEMENT !!! Cool



It's a month to think about whether or not you should actually fly capital ships. If you can't handle a 1 month investment, you have no business flying anything that large and expensive.


Tend to agree.
Umbod Myrr
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2014-03-18 06:10:35 UTC
Markku Laaksonen wrote:
Elena Thiesant wrote:
Shoogie wrote:
Freighters used to benefit from this skill--marginally. When they were rebalanced, I think this skill was removed.


Nope, freighters benefit from it but freighters also require it at 5.

If something requires a skill at 5 then its base stats are made with that in mind. Everyone using something that requires 5 will obviously have that skill at 5, so you will have no benefit over anyone else using that thing. There is no benefit to anything when its requirement is 5.

Except that there are going to be plenty of pilots leftover from before the requirements changed that can fly freighters without having it at level 5. Those pilots still benefit from training it up to 5 if they choose, as it gives them the agility bonus.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#12 - 2014-03-21 04:50:59 UTC
Keep quiet, or CCP will nerf the agility bonus to be more inline with T2 skills Blink

[Subtle nod to their alchemy devblog.]
Qen Tye
In Between
#13 - 2014-03-26 10:38:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Qen Tye
Dorian Wylde wrote:
It's a month to think about whether or not you should actually fly capital ships. If you can't handle a 1 month investment, you have no business flying anything that large and expensive.


The question is not wether to handle one month training or not into capital ships.

The question is why do we not benefit from it from lvl 1 to 5 as we do with all other skills.

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Luwc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-03-26 14:13:09 UTC
Zenos Ebeth wrote:
Is there any reason for this skill to exist ? I'm looking into capitals and I've noticed that anything that requires advanced spaceship command requires it to level 5 , the first 4 levels are completely useless.
It kind of strikes me as odd as every other skill in the game are beneficial to you even at level 1 , advanced spaceship command on the other hand gives you an agility boost for all the ships that require it per level , but only capital ships require it so you MUST have it to level 5 to use the ship anyway. Did i miss anything that can actually use the first 4 levels of this skills ?


its basicaly there so you cannot train into a capital in a short amount of damage.

Which is perfect.

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Qen Tye
In Between
#15 - 2014-03-27 07:08:08 UTC
Luwc wrote:
its basicaly there so you cannot train into a capital in a short amount of damage.

Which is perfect.

Perfect would be that you benefit from it from level 1 to level 5 and not starting to get all benefits from all 5 levels after fully trained.

Imagine if every single skill worked that way.

Jump clones - have to train the skill to 5 before you can start install them / use it.
Mining - have train the skill to 5 before you can get all % out of it.
[insert your own examples here]

Two possibilities exists: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.

  • Arthur C. Clarke
Velenia Ankletickler
Silverflames
#16 - 2014-03-27 14:24:43 UTC
Mining V - Required for Civilian Miner

There, now its more in line with the advanced spaceship command skill :).
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#17 - 2014-03-27 17:04:07 UTC
Velenia Ankletickler wrote:
Mining V - Required for Civilian Miner

There, now its more in line with the advanced spaceship command skill :).



Great example!
Miners need a month to really consider what they are about to get into.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#18 - 2014-03-27 20:40:16 UTC
ASC 5 should be a requirement for T2 capitals, not T1.

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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#19 - 2014-04-02 01:39:53 UTC
This skill should be rolled into Capital Ships IMO.

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solbeka Khashour
Galactic Hauling Solutions Inc.
#20 - 2014-04-22 20:04:55 UTC  |  Edited by: solbeka Khashour
On the skill tree it showsAdvanced Starship Command:
[list]
  • lvl 1 - racial freighters
  • lvl 4 - t2 jump freighters
  • lvl 5 freighter skills again... along with larger capitals

    • This doesn't seem to fit the progression of improved skill over the levels. The freighter is the first capital most pilots fly, why not start at level 1? If you can afford the boat and fly it horribly, makes it worth training to higher levels.... Or if its a capital and you have to have this to level 5 then why doesn't the freighter require the capital ship skill?

    I agree with others above, this really seems like a wasted skill in the tree. You cannot fly anything that requires it until level 5 so where is the competitive advantage, the tease after flying a slow boat very slow?

    Now i have another 25 days of training after accidently training the racial industrial to 5.
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