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remove money transfer spikes on market graph
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nia starstryder
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-03-22 08:24:51 UTC
When setting prices of things that don't have anyone else posting in your market, using the price history graph is often of great help. Problem is, occasionally some idiot will use it to transfer money. This makes the graph useless for up to a year.

For instance some skill books are sold by npc's for around 100k. Some times you can sell these in hubs for as much as 500k, or even higher in rare cases. Other times, the graphs will show that they never sell for more than 200k. Along comes some idiot that takes one book to a out of the way station and asks 100 mil for it. Of course no one will actually buy it, so when his alt with the money comes along on its last day of trials, he is able to buy that book. the effect is, he transfers 100 mil from one trial to another. This is against ccp's rules but its rather hard to police.

Unfortunately, this means that the graph has to compress all the data to show that there was a sell for 100 mil. All the real data is subsequently smashed to the bottom. It becomes impossible to tell the difference between 500k and 200k, so every thing looks like a straight line up to the point where it suddenly spikes to 100 mil.

It would be nice if we had the option to tell the computer to ignore anything that is over a set limit. This will enable us to use the graph as it was intended.
Gigan Amilupar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2014-03-22 08:31:18 UTC
So you want a filter that can be used to remove outliers from market data? That seems useful.

+1
nia starstryder
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2014-03-22 08:33:41 UTC
Exactly Big smile, a filter that would block out things that don't fit within the normal range of sells. It would likely be easier for ccp to make it manually applied, but perhaps it would be easier to put in an automatic one. That would be their choice.

Thanks for the support.
voetius
Grundrisse
#4 - 2014-03-22 11:20:34 UTC

CCP already remove what they call outliers, although they have never made public (afaik) what criteria they use to determine what is an outlier.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Market_guide#Price_History

Note: Some outliers (really high sell orders or really low buy orders) may be excluded from the presentation of either the price history or the Donchian channel.

However, it would still be a useful addition IMO.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-03-22 12:26:08 UTC
An alternate suggestion along the same lines - let us set the scale of the y-axis on that graph. That way we can set it so the outliers vanish off the top, can zoom in on a small price range to examine in more details, etc.
Gothikia
Le Goobers
#6 - 2014-03-22 13:27:25 UTC
Paging CCP Punkturis!

I might be mistaken, but I believe that for the market graph, CCP uses pychart. Pychart is old, pretty much abandoned and doesn't give you the flexibility to do some of the things that is suggested in this thread. All the market graph is doing is taking the market data from the server and generating a graph of it, converting it to a jpg or png and just displaying it in the client. For proper traders, the market data window is in bad need of a re-write or carbonization, which I thought might be coming when I saw the new real time graphing stuff for planetary interaction extractor heads.

Now, having worked on real time graphing for a while, a good temporary work around to help you do the zooming stuff or help filter out the outliers would be to do a quick replacement of the market data window in matplotlib. And hopefully if that were to ever happen, we'd get a fully interactive chart with MACD, custom trend lines, additional data, better exports (full market data over crest? :D) and real time candlestick updates. It really isn't all that much work other than rendering matplotlib inside the market window.

But yes, current outlier stuff isn't really working. Same goes for low price, high volume items like tritanium. At the very least it would be nice to not have volume data on the same plot.

<3 Gothie
nia starstryder
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2014-03-23 04:50:00 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
An alternate suggestion along the same lines - let us set the scale of the y-axis on that graph. That way we can set it so the outliers vanish off the top, can zoom in on a small price range to examine in more details, etc.


That would be a good alternative too. Thanks for that.
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#8 - 2014-03-23 15:07:14 UTC
nia starstryder wrote:
Elena Thiesant wrote:
An alternate suggestion along the same lines - let us set the scale of the y-axis on that graph. That way we can set it so the outliers vanish off the top, can zoom in on a small price range to examine in more details, etc.


That would be a good alternative too. Thanks for that.


This would probably be the better idea... as it's more flexible
It would ofc default to showing ALL data...

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
nia starstryder
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-03-25 08:10:04 UTC
more flexible, yes, but is it easier. only ccp could answer that, but I haven't seen them remark on the subject
nia starstryder
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2014-03-26 15:20:13 UTC
Gothikia wrote:
a good temporary work around to help you do the zooming stuff or help filter out the outliers would be to do a quick replacement of the market data window in matplotlib.


unfortunately, I don't know what matplotlib is, or how to do the ''quick replacement of market data window''. I tried to zoom, since you mentioned it, but all I got even at 1500 times was a straight line.
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#11 - 2014-03-27 10:48:45 UTC
voetius wrote:

CCP already remove what they call outliers, although they have never made public (afaik) what criteria they use to determine what is an outlier.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Market_guide#Price_History

Note: Some outliers (really high sell orders or really low buy orders) may be excluded from the presentation of either the price history or the Donchian channel.

However, it would still be a useful addition IMO.


What ever CCP might or might not do about the outliers just doesn't seem to work. I hit the same problem the OP describes frequently enough when placing mineral buy orders. A player controllable filter would fix this issue rather nicely.

+1

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.
Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#12 - 2014-03-27 11:10:26 UTC
Yes please. It's obviously broken.

+1
nia starstryder
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2014-03-28 21:48:37 UTC
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
Yes please. It's obviously broken.

+1


thanks both of you for the support. I too believe its broken