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Proposed game mechanic: Jails, fines and a court system

First post
Author
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2014-03-26 01:20:29 UTC
Dude. I haven't lived in highsec for well over three years, I'm hardly that particular strain of bear. Hell, I'm arguing that there should be consequences for flying around with fifty billion ISK in a badger. Consequences you want to see removed.

And that is not a get out of jail free card in any way. That is a 'Your market alt has five bil therefore you must pay more than the price of a PLEX to actually play the damn game you're paying for'.



Why, exactly, should there be more consequences for ganking? You have not explained why the ones that Shah pointed out are insufficient. Nor have you explained why stupidity (For example, the fifty billion ISk badger I mentioned, or the ever popular dozen PLEX noobship, the twenty bil marauder, or the autopiloting freighter full of expensive toys) should NOT be punished.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#22 - 2014-03-26 02:09:29 UTC
There is some logic to a form of incarceration.

Griefers commonly lock less combat oriented players in stations for days on end. Something to enforce a criminals temporary removal from high-sec might be reasonable. The Idea of a penal system that must be escaped has some merit to me, but I like running PvE content. I cannot say the OP has zero logic... but as much as I'd like to consign every mouth breathing baby eater to null sec where they can enjoy a little non-consensual action themselves, I don't think it would happen.

More feasibly, I would suggest the OP begin fundraising, find a reputable merc corp, and pay them to gank the everloving crap out of anyone they deem to be a criminal, because that's kind of how EVE works. Pay them to gank them every time they undock, or pay them to monitor local in any systems of interest to you to suicide them if they enter space within your domain. For added satisfaction Gank them yourself... It's not too difficult to pop most ships used for ganking with a few gank ships of your own, and one of the more frustrating aspects of ganking is that gank ships are generally pretty cheap.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#23 - 2014-03-26 02:34:56 UTC
Yeah, this won't really happen.

Besides, what do you think alts are for?

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

Claud Tiberius
#24 - 2014-03-26 03:45:12 UTC
A jail system sounds awesome. Especially if each race has its own jail, and players can bust out their friends/other players while at the same time, battling off NPC guards.

Once upon a time the Golem had a Raven hull and it looked good. Then it transformed into a plataduck. The end.

Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2014-03-26 04:12:02 UTC
I'm all for a better justice system in new eden, but sorry, a temp ban is a terrible idea.

If we have jails it should have options to have break out, or help others break out of jail with permanent security hits from CONCORD for doing so if you succeed.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Katkon Darnok
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-03-26 05:50:27 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Dude. I haven't lived in highsec for well over three years, I'm hardly that particular strain of bear. Hell, I'm arguing that there should be consequences for flying around with fifty billion ISK in a badger. Consequences you want to see removed.

And that is not a get out of jail free card in any way. That is a 'Your market alt has five bil therefore you must pay more than the price of a PLEX to actually play the damn game you're paying for'.



Why, exactly, should there be more consequences for ganking? You have not explained why the ones that Shah pointed out are insufficient. Nor have you explained why stupidity (For example, the fifty billion ISk badger I mentioned, or the ever popular dozen PLEX noobship, the twenty bil marauder, or the autopiloting freighter full of expensive toys) should NOT be punished.


How many times must I repeat myself? Once again, because the crime doesn't equal the punishment. And, I'm not referring solely to ganking. Look, I get it. You think it does. You believe that victims need be taught a lesson. Tough love will surely sort them out, and if doesn't, you'll be there to reap the rewards - right? I get it. But disagree wholeheartedly with that point of view. I want to make hi-sec less safe - for criminals. I want hi-sec to actually be hi-sec. But most of all, I want to watch criminals suffer for what they do to perfectly decent folks. Even the stupid and ignorant. And that includes imposing heavy fines and/or prison time on criminals, scammers and the like. Make these people suffer.

And, hey, if it works - what happens then?

I'll tell you: hi-sec will be safer and PvEers/bears will be happier, and PvPers will... well, continue to gank etc. each other - but focus on low and null-sec space. Unless of course you tell me that this won't happen - instead thousands of PvPers will unsubscribe in mass revolt as they're now unable to reap the easy kills and rewards that comes with ganking noobs and carebears in hi-sec space. But surely that's not how ganking PvPers get their kicks, right? Because that would just be downright pathetic, if true. :)

Finally, assuming you disagree with pretty much everything I said above, let me ask you two questions in return.
1. Do you agree that EVE needs a tiered security system, including hi-sec?
2. If you answered yes to q1, why do you think the current one is not worth improving - or dare I say - perfect?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#27 - 2014-03-26 10:17:52 UTC
I'm going to go ahead and refer you to the rest of the 'highsec should be 100% safe!!11' threads rather than arguing against your often repeated points. They've been done to death.

Also, highsec ganking is an entirety different form of PVP to low or nullsec roaming.

Also, could you please explain why expecting people to take basic precautions with their multi billion ISK ships is a BAD thing?

And yes, a lot of people WOULD unsub if you suddenly made a playstyle that has been a part of this game since day one completely untenable.

As for your questions: Yes, I think there should be tiered space. And no, I don't think the system is perfect. I think there should be a mid-sec type, comprising 0.5 and 0.4, where you get the faction navy instead of CONCORD. Highsec should be LESS safe, not more. The risk -> reward balance is already skewed way too far in highsec's favour.
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#28 - 2014-03-26 10:41:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Swiftstrike1
Katkon Darnok wrote:
I'll admit I'm new to EVE, relatively speaking

Your monocle tells me that you have more money than sense. If you fly around with cargo worth several months of game time then you deserve to get robbed. When it comes to your personal safety in New Eden: Nullsec is like a war torn African country, Lowsec is pretty much the ghetto, and Hisec is that dangerous back alley you walk down on the way home where people do drugs and the street lights are out. YOU ARE NEVER SAFE IN EVE.

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#29 - 2014-03-26 11:16:06 UTC
EVE is not meant to be realistic

its mad max in space. NPC's are not the justice system. YOU, my dear capsuleer, are the justice system. True CONCORD will quickly deprive gankers of their ships and give them a slap on the wrist, but it is down to capsuleers to police other capsuleers.

most importantly, protect urself at all times, and if a deal seems too good to be true, it probably is.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Victor Andall
#30 - 2014-03-26 11:22:45 UTC
Katkon Darnok wrote:
Victor Andall wrote:
Paying customers temporarily banned for playing the game.

This thread is going places.


Sure. You pay taxes in real life too, right? Yet you're not immune from jails and prison if you break the law. Difference is that in EVE you could use an alt (the temp ban is not on the account but the character) OR be broken out of prison by friends, if you have any. The point is CONSEQUENCES.


Your analogy is flawed. I don't pay taxes for the privilege of living.

But even without that fallacy, you talk about breaking the law.

Well there you have it. Under New Eden Law, capsuleers don't go to jail if they shoot each other.

No laws are broken. Besides real world laws.

Is that the discussion we're having?

I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?

19.08.2014 - Dinsdale gets slammed by CCP Falcon. Never forget.

Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#31 - 2014-03-26 21:30:20 UTC
dude - you're immortal - even if he pods you - he's technically only vandalised your property - therefore a 'slap on the wrist' is all that's appropriate.....

man up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q
by CCP - I think it's appropriate.....

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#32 - 2014-03-27 01:05:20 UTC
I have removed a rule breaking post and those quoting it.

The rules:
11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.

The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a petition under the Community & Forums Category.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Liese Shardani
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2014-03-30 05:50:08 UTC
Claud Tiberius wrote:
A jail system sounds awesome. Especially if each race has its own jail, and players can bust out their friends/other players while at the same time, battling off NPC guards.
I love the idea of space jail. I don't think a person who's jailed would be in the same status as temp-banned -- that's more of an OOC player conduct thing. If your alt is in space-prison, s/he can still log in, but s/he can't buy stuff, fly around, make contracts, etc.

Maybe you could chat in Local, wherever the jail is, but you'd have an icon to show that you're in jail? Or maybe there'd be restrictions on Local chat, as well.

Having jail vary from region to region (and from high sec to low to null) would be interesting, and the idea of organized jail-breaks has a lot of potential, I think. I could see EVE News featuring sieges on jails to free prominent prisoners.

I foresee much hilarity and would love to see this implemented.
Albrecht Patrouette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-03-30 05:53:32 UTC
Victor Andall wrote:
Paying customers temporarily banned for playing the game.

This thread is going places.


As compared to paying customers who constantly lose ships, equipment, ISK, etc., due to being ganked over and over again?
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#35 - 2014-03-30 06:01:36 UTC
Albrecht Patrouette wrote:
Victor Andall wrote:
Paying customers temporarily banned for playing the game.

This thread is going places.


As compared to paying customers who constantly lose ships, equipment, ISK, etc., due to being ganked over and over again?

It kinda comes with the game. It's not like your paying real life money for the belongings in-game. Just the log in time to work for them.
Albrecht Patrouette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2014-03-30 06:07:07 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Albrecht Patrouette wrote:
Victor Andall wrote:
Paying customers temporarily banned for playing the game.

This thread is going places.


As compared to paying customers who constantly lose ships, equipment, ISK, etc., due to being ganked over and over again?

It kinda comes with the game. It's not like your paying real life money for the belongings in-game. Just the log in time to work for them.


No? I --and others-- sure pay real life money to play. And if you buy PLEX and sell it to purchase items, then again they are being paid for with real-life money.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#37 - 2014-03-30 06:42:57 UTC
Albrecht Patrouette wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Albrecht Patrouette wrote:
Victor Andall wrote:
Paying customers temporarily banned for playing the game.

This thread is going places.


As compared to paying customers who constantly lose ships, equipment, ISK, etc., due to being ganked over and over again?

It kinda comes with the game. It's not like your paying real life money for the belongings in-game. Just the log in time to work for them.


No? I --and others-- sure pay real life money to play. And if you buy PLEX and sell it to purchase items, then again they are being paid for with real-life money.

You are paying for gametime, be it in subscription form or a PLEX. What you do with it after that is only your own busines. You wanna risk your time by exchanging it for some quick cash and buying items which can be lost? cool. Wanna spemd your time making currency in order to buy more time from the previous guy who wants to sell it? good on you.

You are paying for time in a universe in order to play a certain game, knowing that other people can interact with you whether it be positively or negatively.

You are not paying real money for in-game items. Only exclusions may be special edition assets and vanity items. Which can still be earned by spending in game time wisely.

And you may think that the way you play is the only one that matters, but there are other people who play their own way, even if it negatively affects you.
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#38 - 2014-03-30 10:08:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Anomaly One
thought about this idea before, it has merit

how about instead of a jail, they are thrown into a random Wormhole with nothing but a basic ship/pod.
Although the idea of busting people out of jail is very nice and would a lot of content. Mercs to bust you out etc.

Psychotic Monk for CSM9 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 you want content in highsec? vote Monk

Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Bear Works
#39 - 2014-03-30 13:41:40 UTC
you are bad and you should feel bad.
Eve has always been Everyone Vs Everyone. Part of its charm comes from the fact that nowhere is truly safe, even highsec.

Highsec should never be 100% safe, and dumb pilots should definitely be "punished" for their stupidity
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#40 - 2014-03-30 14:26:39 UTC
If you want some kind of court system then it's only right that the Saviour of highsec adjudicate. In His infinite wisdom he could deputise his agents to hear cases and hand out appropriate punishments.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

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