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Warfare & Tactics

 
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cloak warp exploit needs attention

Author
Elusive Panda
Public Enemies CO
The Initiative.
#21 - 2014-03-25 17:12:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Elusive Panda
Working as intended.
Tbh, if you didn't knew about the Cloak/MWD trick before now, you may want to reconsider flying a Legion, seems to me you need a bit more experience.

An inty for the decloak, a Loki for point, would've probably caught that Drake, but it'll take some effort to land tackle since he went with a travel fit especially to avoid people like you, just hitting approach on a slow Legion won't cut it.

As for the warp mechanics, it's really not that crazy.

You hit Cloak.
You hit MWD.

(Yes cloak first to avoid the sig bloom)

What happens is you will cloak AND activate MWD for ONE cycle. Now let's say for the purpose of the example that you can go 1000 m/s with a MWD (uncloaked).

MWD while cloaked means you will go something like 250 m/s at the end of your cycle, with your top speed still being 1000 m/s => Impossible to warp.

Once the MWD cycle ends, you drop your cloak and suddently, you are going 250 m/s with a top speed of 300 m/s => Instant warp.

Hope I was clear.
muerto Kuha
30plus LLC
Brave Collective
#22 - 2014-03-25 17:13:05 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
On the other hand the legion sux for what you are doing. I'm sure you know that. There are many better choices. A brick proteus with long points and sensor boosters is an obvious one. You know the deal. You have to pick and choose. You can't have it all. I used to use a bomber on LS gates. Have someone grab the gun aggro and use a sebo bomber to get point. Pass it on to your buddy and get out of dodge. Did I lose a few to the gate guns - yeah.


we are not much gate campers we rather like to fight out numbered fights against us, when we get bored one or two of will gate camp or roam, my last 3-4 single roams ive done i ran into this ****, reason why i got a couple of insta ****** ships that can handle gate guns better then a frig. it just gets tiring of the nubs thats fly pvp in low sec and escape like this, yes if they escape due on us not paying attention to map or what all fair game, but to do this is ******** (this is the post above)
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#23 - 2014-03-25 17:16:21 UTC
It took me a couple of years to get over missing some of the targets I went after. Getting over this hurdle gets you one step closer to winning eve. Travel well le petit ecolier!
muerto Kuha
30plus LLC
Brave Collective
#24 - 2014-03-25 17:17:01 UTC
Elusive Panda <-- love the name, its just not the legion, its happened a couple of times with other ships.. i cant speak for flav. but im sure its just not happening to but people all around, yes it may happen we will adjust to it like i said insta locks now.. but still needs to be addressed by CCP
Farjung
Temporary Insanity
#25 - 2014-03-25 17:35:41 UTC
muerto Kuha wrote:
what is the problem now and the third scenario. is say u the thorax was sitting on a gate (gate camping).. another thorax jumped it in. you was to try to target it and it cloaks up (which is fine). so u saw where it was on the board and start racing towards its to decloak it. u hit ur MWD or what not to get to him.( the only thing is this other thorax that u was after hit aligned (to his desto) then hit his MWD and then cycled it to red, then hit cloak. so hes going the same speed as he was towards his desto with out the cloak) as soon as he uncloaks he instantly warps off cuz hes "technically" already past his 75% speed as while aligned (MWD takes 10 sec) .

so to these 3 scenarios 2 are acceptable to myself. to resolve the 3rd scenario is to either cut down the % to make as if the MWD or AB as cloaked is the same as just a normal cloaked shipped, or to have the cloak over ride and shut down the MWD or AB..

hopefully this explains what going on a lil better id figure if u disagree there is no getting u to switch ur mind which would most likley make me believe u use this same system and to each its own untill CCP fixes this..


Yes, that is what happens. My issue is not whether I agree that this mechanic should be in the game or not. My issue is that you are calling this an exploit, when as you have just demonstrated, it is not. These are all well established game mechanics that have been around a long time - you can't just start calling something an exploit because you don't like it, which is what you're trying to do.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#26 - 2014-03-25 18:14:03 UTC
muerto Kuha wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
On the other hand the legion sux for what you are doing. I'm sure you know that. There are many better choices. A brick proteus with long points and sensor boosters is an obvious one. You know the deal. You have to pick and choose. You can't have it all. I used to use a bomber on LS gates. Have someone grab the gun aggro and use a sebo bomber to get point. Pass it on to your buddy and get out of dodge. Did I lose a few to the gate guns - yeah.


we are not much gate campers we rather like to fight out numbered fights against us, when we get bored one or two of will gate camp or roam, my last 3-4 single roams ive done i ran into this ****, reason why i got a couple of insta ****** ships that can handle gate guns better then a frig. it just gets tiring of the nubs thats fly pvp in low sec and escape like this, yes if they escape due on us not paying attention to map or what all fair game, but to do this is ******** (this is the post above)



So you feel like there should be no way in passing a gate other than the campers ******* it up?
Leeloo Lanna
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#27 - 2014-03-25 18:21:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Leeloo Lanna
Ok nvm the nvm..

Just think that you should plan a little better if youre going to do what youre doing. like the poster below me said you could fit a dual web long point loki and kill the hell out of anything coming through the gate. You could then fly some inties with the Loki and really make the game interesting.

There's a reason why that MWD pulse => cloak bit works and why you really have to be on your game to catch people.

If youre looking to do more PvP go FW or you know you could join a corp that actually does that sort of thing all day long :)

really not trying to advert, just sayin.
Morgan Torry
Arma Purgatorium
#28 - 2014-03-25 18:22:06 UTC
I think the alliance name of these two pub lords is hilariously appropriate.

If you're having issues with MWD + Cloak trick then bring an instalocker that can handle gateguns. A Loki with the scan res sub can easily hit instalock ranges (here I'll spoon feed you a nice number: 1550mm roughly for a Drake will comfortably do it) and since your bro has the ability to pay and fly a Legion and yet has no idea what this trick is, then I assume his bought account can also fly a Loki.

Assuming the Loki suggestion will be shot down, why not go real PvP actually have a try? Run with a couple Bursts, no more than two should be needed, and an instalock Thrasher? Not only can the Bursts keep the Thrasher alive but the entire fleet will cost less than a single sub on that Legion that can't do a jack-of-all trades instalock while being fit for other roles.

Arma Purgatorium - What is Podded May Never Die

Leeloo Lanna
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#29 - 2014-03-25 18:33:33 UTC
muerto Kuha wrote:
Elusive Panda <-- love the name, its just not the legion, its happened a couple of times with other ships.. i cant speak for flav. but im sure its just not happening to but people all around, yes it may happen we will adjust to it like i said insta locks now.. but still needs to be addressed by CCP


You DO know that if someone has their skills up to par to do this well it really will be difficult to catch them, right? MWD skills definitely give you an edge on how high the max velocity ceiling is going to be when they pulse their MWD. I do align => pulse MWD => cloak. Frankly speaking with MWD skills at V youre damned right i should be able to get away from you and safely cloak.


Flav Mine
TACTICAL AGGRESSION
#30 - 2014-03-25 21:47:18 UTC
well it was a simple question, that turned into a troll fest, only answer needed was your against it or for it.

thnx for the 2-3 actually answers that stuck on topic the rest, (half of) dont even make sense,
GATE CAMPING where did i say i was gate camping? that got thrown in the conversation by 1 person then dragged through this topic as if it was the main subject. some of whom look like they need to practise themselves on their KB easy to type like your pro pvp but face it you hug those gates and stations like their your mums tittie. forcing guys like us to play dirty. and for the record hot dropping is pretty much gate camping to you just have a mobile gate really and the guns are on your side.

if your intellectually impaired or just to drunk to stay on the actual topic without going on a troll fest or ramble on with nonsense plz just dony reply.

i didnt want to rave on with the story that he was running a site in lowsec in a drake, and i had scanned him down with my directional then as we jumped through to warp in he turned up on the gate. we were burning back jumpin through chasing for the next gate etc isnt campin its catching our prey while roaming.





Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#31 - 2014-03-25 22:44:55 UTC
You got out-played. Tough ****. Move on.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

Bloodmyst Ranwar
Menace of Morons
#32 - 2014-03-25 22:48:43 UTC
Am I the only one here who thinks it's funny that a cloaky Drake got away from him despite being in a Legion?
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#33 - 2014-03-25 23:05:28 UTC  |  Edited by: IbanezLaney
Flav Mine wrote:
i was wondering why this cloak microdrive warp exploit hasnt been fixed or abolished, and what other players think of this ridiculous feature. i understand some things have just been looked past or left go in the hope that gamers might not find or use these exploits but this is ridiculous.

i chased a drake in my legion 2 systems and overtake him on a gate i burn back pre load and over heat mods to tackle, as he comes through i find i cannot lock him ? cloaked hahaha np already spammed my Q approach hotkey quick tap on full speed to keep it up i got him wheres he gonna go? he uncloaks and insta warps leaving me screaming to my corpies on comms "what the...... no way" they reply hit cloak plus micro uncloak and insta warp. my reply was this:

how in the hell can this be possible it go's against all the physics within this game
1. if i cloak a bc my speed is reduced significantly meaning it will take quite some time to reach the: i will call this "speed bracket needed to warp"
2. if i use my microdrive during a fight lose tackle chasing him is also lagged as im to fast for warp and have to wait for speed reduction to fall into the so called "speed bracket needed for warp"
3 . using the above 2 terms you can be either to slow to warp or to fast to warp so there is a certain speed braket for each ship to fall within before warp initiates.

my conclusion is:
if i align cloak (reducing max speed) i would never be able to reach a point exactly within this bracket to initiate a so called insta warp
add a microdrive burst to this i should surpass my warp bracket and need to fall back into it before warp initiates hence this should be fixed.
if not i feel all ships from this point should have the need to reduce speed before warp restriction removed EG: so when i bounce in my dread and need to warp i dont have to wait 5 minutes for it to slow down (fall within this warp bracket), or in another example: to give chase in my legion again after being screwed by an exploit rather than out skilled by a pilot.

please reply with your thoughts on this and wheather you are por exploit or against



It is not an exploit.
It is a feature that allows people a chance to move their goods/travel in some safety.


I recommend you try targets that shoot back.

It is clear that you are just butthurt that you can't get easy kills against other people who have done their research.
Jimmy Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2014-03-25 23:38:29 UTC

What is game mechanics.

I doubt it's going to change, and furthermore it has no reason to be changed. If this grips you with such a fury that you must make a forum post to whine about it I recommend you contact your local opiates salesman and ~420~ chill out.

Flav Mine
TACTICAL AGGRESSION
#35 - 2014-03-26 00:56:12 UTC
Jimmy Caldari wrote:

What is game mechanics.

I doubt it's going to change, and furthermore it has no reason to be changed. If this grips you with such a fury that you must make a forum post to whine about it I recommend you contact your local opiates salesman and ~420~ chill out.



its supposed to be a discussion not a rant on how good at pvp you are / i am. i wanted opinions on the topic or explanations which so far have only seen 2-3 decent replies. even a post on how someone combats this themselves.

im not butt hurt at all i love eve and have an awesome time on it after a hard day at work. one comment of which explained it perfectly and made more sence of how it worked was given thnx to that person. some were just ridiculous written by obvious non pvpers, or FW players who farm sights and use this exact method to get ahead in game. and im fine with that its a sandbox you what you want but the select few who call out with bigotry one look at you kb makes you look like an egg, i do fine in game and live solely off the loot my kills drop. and im probably more well off than a few of you for it.

stick to topic plz or erase post plz DEV
Flav Mine
TACTICAL AGGRESSION
#36 - 2014-03-26 00:57:49 UTC
Elusive Panda wrote:
Working as intended.
Tbh, if you didn't knew about the Cloak/MWD trick before now, you may want to reconsider flying a Legion, seems to me you need a bit more experience.

An inty for the decloak, a Loki for point, would've probably caught that Drake, but it'll take some effort to land tackle since he went with a travel fit especially to avoid people like you, just hitting approach on a slow Legion won't cut it.

As for the warp mechanics, it's really not that crazy.

You hit Cloak.
You hit MWD.

(Yes cloak first to avoid the sig bloom)

What happens is you will cloak AND activate MWD for ONE cycle. Now let's say for the purpose of the example that you can go 1000 m/s with a MWD (uncloaked).

MWD while cloaked means you will go something like 250 m/s at the end of your cycle, with your top speed still being 1000 m/s => Impossible to warp.

Once the MWD cycle ends, you drop your cloak and suddently, you are going 250 m/s with a top speed of 300 m/s => Instant warp.

Hope I was clear.




perfect explanation given thnx
Texty
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-03-26 01:29:49 UTC
Personally, I don't really mind this "cloak + MWD trick" being around but I do find it rather odd that with the current mechanics the cloak does not turn off the initial MWD cycle. It probably should.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#38 - 2014-03-26 02:06:58 UTC
Flav Mine wrote:
Jimmy Caldari wrote:

What is game mechanics.

I doubt it's going to change, and furthermore it has no reason to be changed. If this grips you with such a fury that you must make a forum post to whine about it I recommend you contact your local opiates salesman and ~420~ chill out.



its supposed to be a discussion not a rant on how good at pvp you are / i am. i wanted opinions on the topic or explanations which so far have only seen 2-3 decent replies. even a post on how someone combats this themselves.

im not butt hurt at all i love eve and have an awesome time on it after a hard day at work. one comment of which explained it perfectly and made more sence of how it worked was given thnx to that person. some were just ridiculous written by obvious non pvpers, or FW players who farm sights and use this exact method to get ahead in game. and im fine with that its a sandbox you what you want but the select few who call out with bigotry one look at you kb makes you look like an egg, i do fine in game and live solely off the loot my kills drop. and im probably more well off than a few of you for it.

stick to topic plz or erase post plz DEV



Jimmy said nothing about pvp.

Why would he talk about pvp to a butthurt gankbear?
You wouldn't be able to add anything to such a discussion.

Jimmy Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#39 - 2014-03-26 04:09:34 UTC
Flav Mine wrote:
Jimmy Caldari wrote:

What is game mechanics.

I doubt it's going to change, and furthermore it has no reason to be changed. If this grips you with such a fury that you must make a forum post to whine about it I recommend you contact your local opiates salesman and ~420~ chill out.



its supposed to be a discussion not a rant on how good at pvp you are / i am. i wanted opinions on the topic or explanations which so far have only seen 2-3 decent replies. even a post on how someone combats this themselves.

im not butt hurt at all i love eve and have an awesome time on it after a hard day at work. one comment of which explained it perfectly and made more sence of how it worked was given thnx to that person. some were just ridiculous written by obvious non pvpers, or FW players who farm sights and use this exact method to get ahead in game. and im fine with that its a sandbox you what you want but the select few who call out with bigotry one look at you kb makes you look like an egg, i do fine in game and live solely off the loot my kills drop. and im probably more well off than a few of you for it.

stick to topic plz or erase post plz DEV


I think my post addresses the topic directly: you state that it requires attention, I refute that as false. I don't get your killboard reference but whatever floats your goat I suppose.

Henceforth you may wish to actually look at the killboards before bringing them into the discussion.
ALUCARD 1208
Digital Ghosts
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#40 - 2014-03-26 06:57:30 UTC
muerto Kuha wrote:
u use this same system and to each its own untill CCP fixes this..




Hint :- it aint a problem it wont get "fixed"