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K162 mechanics

First post
Author
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#21 - 2014-03-25 11:30:08 UTC
You need to stop posting this crap.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7

RcTamiya Leontis
Magister Mortalis.
#22 - 2014-03-25 11:31:39 UTC
Who's in for eviction of his wh ? ;)
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#23 - 2014-03-25 11:35:51 UTC
I've been fighting making this post, but I just can't take it anymore. I really really want probing to go back to the original system. The one were you had to carry all the different types of probes for different outcomes. The system where probes were consumable and once launched were never to return. That glorious system that only a few folks could wrap their brains around. The one where most of you nit wits would be totally lost.

I really miss those days. A good prober was way more valuable than a good scout.

I did an experiment the other day, and my dog (golden retriever, so I'll give you she has above average intelligence for a dog) was able to scan down a HS static. I would ask her questions like 'up or down' and 'bigger or smaller' for probe movements. If she wagged her tail I did the former and if she put a paw up I did the latter. She got the hs. I gave her some kibbles and thanked her for the help. Not sure she understood, but it seemed to make us both happy. She accomplished this miraculous feat between putting a pizza in the oven and taking it out.

This whole 'problem' boils down to splitting hairs between one easy mode and another easy mode. Fozzie, put scanning back to the original way for a month. Then put it back to how it is now. I assure you, the nit wit masses will no longer see any issues with scanning.

Double Dog Dare Fozzie.... Double Dog Dare.
Meytal
Doomheim
#24 - 2014-03-25 13:05:48 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I really really want probing to go back to the original system

I came in after it had been revamped to just Core, Combat, and Deep Space probes, though I have heard references to "the old way" coupled with much groaning.

What was it like before? (genuinely curious)
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#25 - 2014-03-25 13:37:26 UTC
You had to use d-scan (both range and directional) to get a rough guess where stuff was. You launched a probe of the appropriate range (you had 3 choices - longer range had less strength and shorter range had more strength) in your best guess direction. Probe range was kind of like flight time and how far the probe could see in all directions if I recall correctly.

You got some 'fuzzy' hits from the probe that you could warp to. You warped to the hit (which was not the actual thing you were after, but it was closer to it) and did the d-scan range and direction all over again. This time you were closer and could use a shorter range/larger strength probe. Shoot another probe and get a more clear response.

If you were not good at d-scan you were no good at probing.

There were other tricks to use. If a guy was using hammerheads in a site you could swap to garvimentric probes and get a much clearer picture (warp in) very quickly. Deployed drone race corresponed to probe type (racial - just like the ECM skittles) for this shortcut/trick. You probed a guys drones, not his ship.

Mostly it took d-scan skill and some 'spatial instinct' (my made up term) to be efficient at it.

You know the guys that can pick a tengu running an anom out of a gaggle of 20 anoms without probes in 30 seconds? He's the guy that could probe like a boss back in the day.

You know all the guys that take 30 min to find that tengu using d-scan? They were the guys that let other guys probe stuff out for them back in the day.
Ghenghis Kralj
POS Party
Ember Sands
#26 - 2014-03-25 13:57:52 UTC
I'll say what has been said a million times before by wh residents. Active actions should never be restricted. Although we sure appreciate CCP trying to come up with fun ideas, I think we would all appreciate a few other things addressed first like black holes or c4s. Maybe even personal SMAs. Better pos security. Do roles really have to apply to all poses? And swapping clones in wh space would be nice too :)

I also think I might be in the minority here, but I can't really say that I thought to myself "You know what needs to change....k hole dynamics!" I don't think I have had more trouble finding people doing more stupid stuff.
Meytal
Doomheim
#27 - 2014-03-25 14:50:36 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
interesting stuff

Does that mean what we call signatures today were previously visible on dscan? Or did you have to launch a long-range probe to see what was in system to begin your guessing?

The triangulation method that we have now does seem more intuitive since we have the easy real-world examples of cell phone tracking and GPS. But then, I've never liked the mechanic of chasing the rabbit which is the only thing other games seem to know how to use.

The scanner changes in Odyssey were definitely going way too far, though. I can put up with an eventual, non-instantaneous listing of signatures in the scanner window, but the more I really stop and think about it, the less I like that it shows you the approximate position in space before you even scan. It does make it easier and faster to scan, but it also takes away a little bit of the feeling of accomplishment as you improve your scanning times.

But the flip side of that is, after thousands or tens of thousands of signatures scanned, are you still being rewarded with that feeling of accomplishment, or do you want to get the scanning done so you can get to your target or continue the hunt?


What other methods could be used to introduce, or re-introduce, more player skill in the scanning process without simply adding tedium?

Combat scanning is still wonderful, but CCP seems to be doing their best to kill reasons to even visit cosmic signatures in W-space.
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#28 - 2014-03-25 14:58:06 UTC
Sith1s Spectre wrote:
Braxus Deninard wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Please just go away.





Since this is Sky Fighter's subforum now can you please revoke OP's posting rights Sith?

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate Full-Time Supermodel

worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕвσss

Ashimat
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-03-25 15:01:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ashimat
Adoris Nolen wrote:

2hrs = system wide overlay you warp too. No probing required. Only in wormholes, not k-space.

You keep coming up with all this moronic ideas. What bugs me is that I can't figure out if you are trolling or if you just are a little bit r3tarded.

Got blog: http://thecloakedones.blogspot.com

Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#30 - 2014-03-25 15:06:34 UTC
(Disregarding the posts, content, and focusing on the title of the thread).

Yup, I'm a k162 mechanic. I'm willing to work on your k162 but you'll have to drop it off at my shop. Please note that we only take payments in 1 Isk increments or Fidos.

We do some roadside assistance, but that costs extra and requires that you watch a youtube video of large men digging in their belly button for dryer lint, while wearing an expression that we assume is either concentration or constipation.

Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
#31 - 2014-03-25 15:15:26 UTC
Noxisia Arkana wrote:
(Disregarding the posts, content, and focusing on the title of the thread).

Yup, I'm a k162 mechanic. I'm willing to work on your k162 but you'll have to drop it off at my shop. Please note that we only take payments in 1 Isk increments or Fidos.

We do some roadside assistance, but that costs extra and requires that you watch a youtube video of large men digging in their belly button for dryer lint, while wearing an expression that we assume is either concentration or constipation.



I'll gladly give you a Fido (Slaver) for a Fedo.

Also OP no. Just....no.
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
#32 - 2014-03-25 15:29:58 UTC
Ashimat wrote:
Adoris Nolen wrote:

2hrs = system wide overlay you warp too. No probing required. Only in wormholes, not k-space.

You keep coming up with all this moronic ideas. What bugs me is that I can't figure out if you are trolling or if you just are a little bit r3tarded.


Does it have to be an either or?
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#33 - 2014-03-25 15:58:36 UTC
Signatures have changed a lot over time also. Exploration wasn't a 'profession'. Folks used to make a safespot in a large system off of d'scan and were able to just leave ships floating at the safe until they needed them. Deep safes (over 200au from any celestial) used to be common hangouts for pirates. No d-scan triangulation to get an aiming point for your probes.

Grav/ladar/mag/radar sites didn't exist in the forms they are today - though knowing a bit of probing history reveals why they were called ladar/grav and so on. of course now I think they are dumbed down to gas/relic/data/ore since there are no racial probe types anymore and no need to connect a given site with a given racial sensor type.

There is no going back. I guess I would just like to stop the 'dumbing down' of the game. I get the need for subscriptions, but I don't get the pandering (yeah that's kind of funny) to all of the whining about eve being 'too hard' and this or that 'needs fixed'.

One of the reasons I liked eve in the past is that it was a difficult game to play and not everyone could. It kept out the 'come at me bro' types and all the easy mode folks.

There is also the stubborness of CCP. They make a lot of changes to the game. Guess what (apply sunglasses - blinding flash of the obvious incoming) not all of them are good. When CCP puts NOT GOOD changes in the game it would be nice to see them be a bit more grown up and just pull them back out.

My example (even though it has zero effect on my play style) is drone assist. A great concept. Emergent game play made it a bad mechanic for both game play and server hardware. CCP is too stubborn to just get rid of it. The current 'fix' is to limit the number of assigned drones. Man up, admit it didn't work out and pull it. It's not that difficult. The game was playable before drone assist and it would be playable again without it.

My point with that rant is: they will tweek the overlay piece of crap for a decade to improve it (think a big shiny poop), but they will not pull it. They will pander to the pandas if they think it will improve the bottom line. If that means dumbing something down, then they will. We just have to adapt.

Watch what you whine about you may get what you ask for.
Malken
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#34 - 2014-03-25 16:12:05 UTC
tbh, drone assist just makes ppl fall asleep instead of actually play the game.

☻/ /▌ / \

Cheesy Feet
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2014-03-25 16:18:55 UTC
Exit from Wormspace is that way -> Please use it Roll
Ashimat
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2014-03-25 16:39:02 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
My example (even though it has zero effect on my play style) is drone assist. A great concept. Emergent game play made it a bad mechanic for both game play and server hardware. CCP is too stubborn to just get rid of it. The current 'fix' is to limit the number of assigned drones. Man up, admit it didn't work out and pull it. It's not that difficult. The game was playable before drone assist and it would be playable again without it.

The concept is still great, and you want the emergent gameplay. The problem was that it's free (no skills required) and unlimited. They could have implemented drone-assist with a drone-assist skill (train it to five and you can assist all five of your little buddies). You could even have a second skill that decides how many assisted drones one could control, then you would also get a natural limit on the amount of drones that can be assisted to one pilot.

Got blog: http://thecloakedones.blogspot.com

Asayanami Dei
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#37 - 2014-03-25 16:54:26 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Signatures have changed a lot over time also. Exploration wasn't a 'profession'. Folks used to make a safespot in a large system off of d'scan and were able to just leave ships floating at the safe until they needed them. Deep safes (over 200au from any celestial) used to be common hangouts for pirates. No d-scan triangulation to get an aiming point for your probes.

Grav/ladar/mag/radar sites didn't exist in the forms they are today - though knowing a bit of probing history reveals why they were called ladar/grav and so on. of course now I think they are dumbed down to gas/relic/data/ore since there are no racial probe types anymore and no need to connect a given site with a given racial sensor type.

There is no going back. I guess I would just like to stop the 'dumbing down' of the game. I get the need for subscriptions, but I don't get the pandering (yeah that's kind of funny) to all of the whining about eve being 'too hard' and this or that 'needs fixed'.

One of the reasons I liked eve in the past is that it was a difficult game to play and not everyone could. It kept out the 'come at me bro' types and all the easy mode folks.

There is also the stubborness of CCP. They make a lot of changes to the game. Guess what (apply sunglasses - blinding flash of the obvious incoming) not all of them are good. When CCP puts NOT GOOD changes in the game it would be nice to see them be a bit more grown up and just pull them back out.

My example (even though it has zero effect on my play style) is drone assist. A great concept. Emergent game play made it a bad mechanic for both game play and server hardware. CCP is too stubborn to just get rid of it. The current 'fix' is to limit the number of assigned drones. Man up, admit it didn't work out and pull it. It's not that difficult. The game was playable before drone assist and it would be playable again without it.

My point with that rant is: they will tweek the overlay piece of crap for a decade to improve it (think a big shiny poop), but they will not pull it. They will pander to the pandas if they think it will improve the bottom line. If that means dumbing something down, then they will. We just have to adapt.

Watch what you whine about you may get what you ask for.

+1


I'm also starting to lean towards the idea of making wormhole signatures scannable from boths sides immediately after they spawn, not just one side, and be done with it.

I'm a leaf on the wind, watch how I--THE CAPACITOR IS EMPTY

Youtube: /asayanami

Twitter: @asayanami

wormholefundamentals.com

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#38 - 2014-03-25 17:05:07 UTC
Yeah Ashi, I agree. Great concept. Sadly a bunch of tools in null (knowing full well what they were doing) decided to bork the whole thing. And totally agree cheesy feet drone assist is off topic.

We should burn down one stupid idea and then move on to the next. The stupid idea of this thread is something about delaying something for some arbitrary amount of time to accomplish something.... so let's work on that.

The big question at this point for me is what they actually call cheesey feet on comms.

Cheesey
Cheese
Feet
CF
Mr. Cheesey Feet

I need to know.
Ashimat
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#39 - 2014-03-25 17:53:32 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
The big question at this point for me is what they actually call cheesey feet on comms.

Cant you just refer to him as "that old bastard" like the rest of us?

Got blog: http://thecloakedones.blogspot.com

Bane Nucleus
Assault and Battery
Transmission Lost
#40 - 2014-03-25 18:32:01 UTC
Malken wrote:
tbh, drone assist just makes ppl fall asleep instead of actually play the game.


For running sites I agree. For wh pvp, it involves a lot of kiting and running so you don't die in a fire Lol

No trolling please

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