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High sec Mission runners just got completely screwed by CCP

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Afk Moon Goo
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#521 - 2014-03-25 11:43:31 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
OK, explain to me where inflation is a serious problem then?

And PVE players would be forced to PVE in other areas to be able to compete on the level with anyone else. You'd be favouring PVP over PVE substantially for isk generation. That would give people the option of joining in or not bothering, since there would be no way for them to catch up.

The end result would be a whole bunch of people quitting, then the market crashing, since all of those things that there's a bunch of people happy to grind all day for wouldn't be provided.


Look at most of the stuff that comes from hs lp, plex price is a good indication too.

As for favoring pvp over pve it's already the case with fw mission that pays waaaaaaaay more than any hs stuff, the point is :
- people don't want to go to lowsec
- people don't want to fight in plex
All this is OKAY, why? Because going to lowsec expose you to people already living there hence terrible pvp (gatecamps, blobs, etc), if you could run those missions while being in hs you could provide content, get good isk and also be able to jump into pvp easily.
Or you could continue to do plain pve in your 4200 dps xXxXXBLING MaChArIELXxXXxX and hate fun forever.

Ramona McCandless wrote:

wat


Blops bridge a wing of manticores all over that nullgate and bomb the dickens out of it, kill the Hyperion with two Widows, jump out again for tea and medals.



Dude I agree with that but imagine you don't live in null, it's simply not worth it to blops let's say a single bear bs in null, which is dumb you shouldn't have to commit to null to gank in null.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#522 - 2014-03-25 11:58:16 UTC
Afk Moon Goo wrote:
Look at most of the stuff that comes from hs lp, plex price is a good indication too.
Yes, and with the exception of plex I don't see anything spectacular. Plex prices are a bad indicator, since their price is so driven by demand which can fluctuate from external factors. Like right now plex has just shot up, but that's not inflation that's caused it, it's demand due to fanfest.

Now that's not to say that there isn't a level of inflation in the economy, there is, and there pretty much has to be to drive the economy, but I would not say there is a problem with inflation at all, and certainly nothing that could be solved by alienating PVE players.
Afk Moon Goo wrote:
As for favoring pvp over pve it's already the case with fw mission that pays waaaaaaaay more than any hs stuff, the point is :
- people don't want to go to lowsec
- people don't want to fight in plex
All this is OKAY, why? Because going to lowsec expose you to people already living there hence terrible pvp (gatecamps, blobs, etc), if you could run those missions while being in hs you could provide content, get good isk and also be able to jump into pvp easily.
Or you could continue to do plain pve in your 4200 dps xXxXXBLING MaChArIELXxXXxX and hate fun forever.
It's not fun for YOU. It's fun for them. It's clear from what you are saying about blops that what you want is the ability to gank people. So you want peopel to expose themselves to ganks more. But you having fun at their expense doesn't mean fun for them.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#523 - 2014-03-25 12:00:56 UTC
Afk Moon Goo wrote:

Dude I agree with that but imagine you don't live in null, it's simply not worth it to blops let's say a single bear bs in null, which is dumb you shouldn't have to commit to null to gank in null.



I dont live in null.

"Worth it" is arbitrary friend, its worth it if I see a Retriever, Mack or Hulk explode. Its worth it if the Inties on the gate camp pop and its double worth it to see a Hyper in flames

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#524 - 2014-03-25 12:08:13 UTC
Tippia wrote:

It wouldn't. Removing bounties would put faucets and sinks at an almost equal level with no room to grow and no allowance for the basic hoarding instinct of your standard MMOer. It would be a spectacularly harmful thing to do.


Are you saying my station spinning rare ship collection is a bad thing for the game ?

I pretend they are an investment, does that help ?
Afk Moon Goo
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#525 - 2014-03-25 12:15:50 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Yes, and with the exception of plex I don't see anything spectacular. Plex prices are a bad indicator, since their price is so driven by demand which can fluctuate from external factors. Like right now plex has just shot up, but that's not inflation that's caused it, it's demand due to fanfest.

Now that's not to say that there isn't a level of inflation in the economy, there is, and there pretty much has to be to drive the economy, but I would not say there is a problem with inflation at all, and certainly nothing that could be solved by alienating PVE players.


Sure but the plex price started to rise before all those external factors, you are really delusional if you can't see the inflation, hell the devs are making changes in that way for a reason, don't you think? Or maybe you should go and mail CCP and explain them that inflation is not real (despite having the market data right in front of you).
People are getting rich too easily, thanks to risk averse pve, I wouldn't care if that wouldn't mean less content for me.


Lucas Kell wrote:

It's not fun for YOU. It's fun for them. It's clear from what you are saying about blops that what you want is the ability to gank people. So you want peopel to expose themselves to ganks more. But you having fun at their expense doesn't mean fun for them.

If it's fun, they aren't doing it for the isk anyway so what's the problem? People that like pve will still be able to pve, people that want more isk will have to deal with risk.
How is this not fair, since you deny inflation are you making fun of me with sarcasm?

Ramona McCandless wrote:

I dont live in null.

"Worth it" is arbitrary friend, its worth it if I see a Retriever, Mack or Hulk explode. Its worth it if the Inties on the gate camp pop and its double worth it to see a Hyper in flames


Yep dude, I'm sure you and your boys setup blops to gank retrievers all day (that's why nobody mines in null anymore right, right? BlinkBlinkBlinkBlink ) that's 100% relevant to the point that ganking bears in null is way too much of a hassle compared to any other sec for no good reason at all except flawed design.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#526 - 2014-03-25 12:18:30 UTC
Afk Moon Goo wrote:


Yep dude, I'm sure you and your boys setup blops to gank retrievers all day (that's why nobody mines in null anymore right, right? BlinkBlinkBlinkBlink ) that's 100% relevant to the point that ganking bears in null is way too much of a hassle compared to any other sec for no good reason at all except flawed design.



What?

What are you talking about? We agreed that Blops were awesome, I dont see how opening a bridge to null is in anyway hard and I didnt say I did it all the time, I said it was possible.

What did I say that deserved the attitude, buddy?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Afk Moon Goo
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#527 - 2014-03-25 12:30:41 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Afk Moon Goo wrote:


Yep dude, I'm sure you and your boys setup blops to gank retrievers all day (that's why nobody mines in null anymore right, right? BlinkBlinkBlinkBlink ) that's 100% relevant to the point that ganking bears in null is way too much of a hassle compared to any other sec for no good reason at all except flawed design.



What?

What are you talking about? We agreed that Blops were awesome, I dont see how opening a bridge to null is in anyway hard and I didnt say I did it all the time, I said it was possible.

What did I say that deserved the attitude, buddy?


m8 isn't this supposed to be a sarcasm-fest where we throw objectivity out of the window to shill for our playstyle/alliance? Oops

But ye I agree with that totally, the point is ganking nullbears is objectively way too much of a hassle compared to any other sec for no good reason.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#528 - 2014-03-25 13:32:22 UTC
Afk Moon Goo wrote:
Sure but the plex price started to rise before all those external factors, you are really delusional if you can't see the inflation, hell the devs are making changes in that way for a reason, don't you think? Or maybe you should go and mail CCP and explain them that inflation is not real (despite having the market data right in front of you).
People are getting rich too easily, thanks to risk averse pve, I wouldn't care if that wouldn't mean less content for me.
People have complained about the problem of inflation for years, and still nothing drastic has been done and the economy is still standing. In fact last I saw the mineral index was pretty much showing that there was no issues at all. Tritanium is way down from last year. I'm not saying inflation doesn't exist, I'm simply saying it's not a problem.

Afk Moon Goo wrote:
If it's fun, they aren't doing it for the isk anyway so what's the problem? People that like pve will still be able to pve, people that want more isk will have to deal with risk.
How is this not fair, since you deny inflation are you making fun of me with sarcasm?
Sure it's fun, but progression is fun too. Having that stripped away so you can either be far behind or submit yourself as chow for the PVPers isn't.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#529 - 2014-03-25 13:36:24 UTC
Afk Moon Goo wrote:
ganking nullbears


Its ok, I know your feels, but I think the above is reason enough.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Rex Steal
Doomheim
#530 - 2014-03-25 14:07:35 UTC
It would seem that CCP supports players with multiple accounts and not the single player accounts. Everyone already knows there's a two tier system in play in Eve. Those that have and use 15+ accounts to farm and those that have 1 account.

Just saying
Chinwe Rhei
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#531 - 2014-03-25 14:09:18 UTC
I run missions sometimes and never mine but i don't see the problem, minerals should only really come from mining, it's the only way for that profession to be even remotely viable, it should've been done years ago.
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#532 - 2014-03-25 15:00:50 UTC
CCP has taken a hammer to 'gun mining' over the past 2 years and of all the changes so far this is pretty small. The only reason a stink is being made about this is because someone has a hard on for GoonFleet and paranoia.

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Abla Tive
#533 - 2014-03-25 15:32:40 UTC
Dramaticus wrote:
CCP has taken a hammer to 'gun mining' over the past 2 years and of all the changes so far this is pretty small.


This goes way deeper than simply 'gun mining'.
It fundamentally changes how stuff works in EVE.

In the past, you could melt stuff down and remake things if circumstances changed.
Now, you will pay a huge penalty to change your mind.

Quite frankly, the Devs are being cowardly by not directly discussing the
reasons for this deep change to the economy.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#534 - 2014-03-25 15:41:11 UTC
Abla Tive wrote:
Dramaticus wrote:
CCP has taken a hammer to 'gun mining' over the past 2 years and of all the changes so far this is pretty small.


This goes way deeper than simply 'gun mining'.
It fundamentally changes how stuff works in EVE.

In the past, you could melt stuff down and remake things if circumstances changed.
Now, you will pay a huge penalty to change your mind.

Quite frankly, the Devs are being cowardly by not directly discussing the
reasons for this deep change to the economy.
How so? The changes they are making are for good reason. Sure, it goes beyond gun mining, but being able to do a 180 if you made a bad industry decision was always stupid. The inability for CCP to increase mineral cost of items also caused issues with balancing effectively. Honestly, the only question I have is why scrap reprocessing ever got you a 100% return in the first place (though that question doesn't need answering since the answer would be irrelevant now they are fixing it).

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Abla Tive
#535 - 2014-03-25 15:51:59 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:

Sure, it goes beyond gun mining, but being able to do a 180 if you made a bad industry decision was always stupid. The inability for CCP to increase mineral cost of items also caused issues with balancing effectively.


Decisions that were good can turn out to be bad when circumstances (beyond your control) change.

What I am saying is that this change is goes way deeper than simply gun mining and that CCP should directly address the reasons for this change (which may or may not be the reasons you are offering).

Not giving us their reasoning suggests that they either don't understand the significance of the change (alarming if true, but very unlikely) or that there are other reasons why they don't want to share their vision of the economy with us.

Speculation of possible 'other reasons' rapidly leads to tinfoil hat territory and reduces confidence in the stewardship capability of CCP.
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#536 - 2014-03-25 16:20:22 UTC
@Baltec1 & Tippia

Im not sure why you think this reproc nerf will make anything better. We still know that blitzing lvl4 is still the most profitable. still not by much but still more profitable.

Iwe argued with you before Tippia, and i remember you advocating how bad "grinding" is... so how are this nerf better, with this nerf, blitzing the few lvl4 missions in absurdum ower and ower, till you cry of boredom, how is this good gameplay ?

When i do Lv4, i actually enjoy comming back in my noctis picking up the loot, and sorting it keeping the meta4 mods and proc the rest.... its not couse its BETTER, but it still is almost as good as blitzing, but way more fun, its atleast alittle bit of break and change, and once in awhile you find some "good" meta 4s...

So lets nerf this game play, so that the more tedious grinding ways, shines in EvE... i say this is backward thinking ! lol
Dlareme
Space Ants
Brave Collective
#537 - 2014-03-25 16:37:27 UTC
Because mission running is soooooo fun to begin with (insert sarcasm). It also has a much higher chance to blow your ship up as opposed to mining. If we go for risk v reward, wouldn't it make sense that the people going out and risking their lives to protect the good citizens of new eden get more money?

If we go for trying to make mission running EQUAL to mining, then I suppose the Nerf makes sense. Then everyone can just shoot asteroids all day instead of NPCs. I would suggest against this course of action, as trying to make everyone receive the same amount of pay for different jobs has never really worked in the past.

In the end, whatever comes, I'll adapt and continue to play.
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#538 - 2014-03-25 16:42:56 UTC
Dlareme wrote:
Because mission running is soooooo fun to begin with (insert sarcasm). It also has a much higher chance to blow your ship up as opposed to mining. If we go for risk v reward, wouldn't it make sense that the people going out and risking their lives to protect the good citizens of new eden get more money?

If we go for trying to make mission running EQUAL to mining, then I suppose the Nerf makes sense. Then everyone can just shoot asteroids all day instead of NPCs. I would suggest against this course of action, as trying to make everyone receive the same amount of pay for different jobs has never really worked in the past.

In the end, whatever comes, I'll adapt and continue to play.


never said it was "fun", just saying that making it ewen more boring isent smart lol... Must be some kind of new kind of inovative progress !
Dlareme
Space Ants
Brave Collective
#539 - 2014-03-25 16:48:23 UTC
Fey Ivory wrote:
Dlareme wrote:
Because mission running is soooooo fun to begin with (insert sarcasm). It also has a much higher chance to blow your ship up as opposed to mining. If we go for risk v reward, wouldn't it make sense that the people going out and risking their lives to protect the good citizens of new eden get more money?

If we go for trying to make mission running EQUAL to mining, then I suppose the Nerf makes sense. Then everyone can just shoot asteroids all day instead of NPCs. I would suggest against this course of action, as trying to make everyone receive the same amount of pay for different jobs has never really worked in the past.

In the end, whatever comes, I'll adapt and continue to play.


never said it was "fun", just saying that making it ewen more boring isent smart lol... Must be some kind of new kind of inovative progress !


I agree with you. I think it's a bad idea.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#540 - 2014-03-25 17:38:56 UTC
Removed some off topic posts.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department