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EVE API and Public CREST discussion

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CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2014-03-25 00:45:36 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Logibro
Hey guys,

I know a lot of people around here have a lot of requests for new features, fixes of old features, and just general herpity derpity. What I would like to do is get a bit more of a central location for us, CCP and you guys, to discuss what you as a community would like to see get done.

To be clear, nothing said here is a promise to get things done. Mainly a way for us to get a better feeling for what the community would like to see get done. This will then be balanced against what we would like to do and hopefully result in cool **** being done. Cool **** should also include fixes, because those are cool as well, not just new features.

A couple of ground rules:

  • If you would like to request a feature or a fix for either the EVE API or Public CREST make a detailed post with an example use case, a brief description of why, relevant repro steps if it's a bug (and bug name if you submitted a bug report).
  • Simple +1s of features, ideas, fix requests and such will be ignored. If you want to support another feature make a post that describes something else useful that you would like to see. If you make a good post about your own ideas and add a few +1s to the bottom of the post that will be acceptable.
  • Keep all discussion civil or go away.\
  • Please do discuss things, offer counter points for why something shouldn't be done, or why something should have a high priority/low priority. Again, if it comes down to just a +1 post we will ignore it. Add something more to the discussion or be ignored.
  • There is a like button on the forums, please use that instead of making a post just to +1 an idea if you have nothing to add to the discussion.


This is a test, we may find a better way to do this or may just scrap it if this doesn't really work out.

Please also keep in mind that as it stands the EVE API and Public CREST are pet projects and are worked on in spare time. Don't go expecting a mad rush of new changes. Limited time is a big reason why we would rather be doing highly requested things instead of just completely random things.

Example post:

============================================
Idea: Allow us to query char/ContractItems in bulk
Description: Lots of players when they have contracts have a number of contracts and it's rare that we want just the information from one. Allowing us to query the contracts in bulk would ease our pain as developers and probably increase performance. :D

Idea: Some other idea
Description: Some description of the other idea.

Salpun's suggestion for exposing the DUST map layout via CREST would also benefit me greatly in this application I have over on this site because...
============================================

Lets get this discussion going shall we! :D

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2 - 2014-03-25 00:45:41 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP FoxFour
Please note, the backlog is simply in order of things being added, not some kind of priority.

Backlog - EVE API - New Features:

  • Possibly making the ContractItems endpoint accept a list of contractIDs to allow better batch processing. This endpoint is currently a very highly used endpoint and so could probably due with some love.
  • Upgrade level for FW systems, still need to ask the rest of design about this
  • eve/OwnerName endpoint to match eve/OwnerID endpoint
  • update locations endpoint to include system name
  • Notification Ref Type Name http://wiki.eve-id.net/APIv2_Char_Notifications_XML
  • Return closed corporations on the contacts endpoint instead of omitting them and declare them as closed.
  • Add PI extractor heads to the PI pinds endpoint for ECUs


Backlog - EVE API - Defects:

  • Dust wallet corp/wallettransactions doesn't show the Dust Players' Battle Win/Loss tax payments to corp
  • Calling MailMessages on SiSi returns 503 with error xml body of error code 1001 (Cache is invalid).
  • /corp/Locations.xml.aspx fails if a single asset ID is invalid
  • Reduce the cache time on corp member tracking from 6 hours to 1


Backlog - Public CREST - New Features:

  • Add a wars endpoint. Wars are public in the client but do not offer a very good interface for searching, browsing, comparing, bragging, etc. Exposing this, along with links to the involved kills, could allow you guys to represent this in a much nicer manner.
  • An endpoint that lists all items on the market, a link to their history, and their current average price. This does a few things, it means you don't have to know ahead of time which items are on the market before trying to query the market history endpoint. Also gives one nice quick location to get current prices.
  • Expose the DUST map layout via CREST. It's layout is optimized for SD TV, but if you really want it...
  • System statistics like from in-game
  • killright information on killmails
  • Outpost and station information
  • Add alliance member count to the CREST alliance endpoint


Backlog - CREST - Defects:

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#3 - 2014-03-25 00:45:45 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP FoxFour
Deployments:

2014/06/03:

  • [EVE API] Added the new /corp/CustomsOffices endpoint to the EVE API
  • [EVE API] New POCO endpoint requires a Director or CEO corporation API key with the asset list access mask
  • [CREST] A new Wars resource was added to public CREST with /wars/, /wars/war_id/, and /wars/war_id/killmails/all/
  • [EVE API] Removed WH systems from the maps/kills endpoint.


2014/05/20:

  • [EVE API] Cache time on char/CharacterSheet reduced from 6 hours to 1
  • [EVE API] Fix for char/PlanetaryPins having incorrect columns listed


2014/04/30:

  • [EVE API] Deployed a fix for the caching issue on the PI endpoint.


2014/04/29:

  • [EVE API] Adding endpoints for PI to the EVE API
  • [EVE API] /char/PlanetaryColonies added
  • [EVE API] /char/PlanetaryPins added
  • [EVE API] /char/PlanetaryRoutes added
  • [EVE API] /char/PlanetaryLinks added
  • [EVE API] All PI related endpoints require having access to the assets list
  • [EVE API] All PI related endpoints, except colonies, require a planetID in the URL
  • [EVE API] All PI related endpoints require a characterID be supplied
  • [EVE API] *CCP FoxFour hopes he has not screwed up access requirements horribly*


2014/03/27:

  • [EVE API] Added faction and alliance info in the account/APIKeyInfo endpoint
  • [EVE API] Added senderName in the char/Notifications endpoint
  • [EVE API] Fix for accountKey 10000 showing up in char/AccountBalance

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#4 - 2014-03-25 00:45:50 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP FoxFour
Music listened to while making this post:


Will update the list as I make posts. :)

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#5 - 2014-03-25 01:09:00 UTC
Any chance of getting x, y, z position on kilmails? That , plus more accurate than a second timestamps would make for some awesome battle visualizations

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#6 - 2014-03-25 01:15:56 UTC
Two step wrote:
Any chance of getting x, y, z position on kilmails? That , plus more accurate than a second timestamps would make for some awesome battle visualizations


Going to be honest, I am a bit scared to touch killmails. They are a pretty crazy system and time to reward ratio is skewed far more to the time side. If really desired I can try and poke CCP Masterplan who kind of owns that system, but yea, time/reward ratio.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Greater D.U.S.K. Coalition
#7 - 2014-03-25 01:25:35 UTC
you mentioned the dust version of the system map could be accessed via crest Big smile

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#8 - 2014-03-25 01:29:46 UTC
Added an example post to the first post. :)

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Wollari
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
#9 - 2014-03-25 01:44:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Wollari
[common stuff]
Similar to eve/OwnerID (names=abc,def,ghi) please add eve/OwnerNames (ids=123,45,678) then we would have the same functions like CharacterNames and the CharacterID endpoint which could be deprecated cause ownerID+ownerNames would be more useful.

[factionwarfare]
The newly introduced api is great, but you forgot to add the upgradeLevel. you can view this ingame on the fw dashboard. afaik this level is needed to calculate the war progress (there's a nice progress bar on the dashboard which (with some math) can be shown out-of-game as well.

[indizies]
military/strategic/industry indizies of nullsec systems. To not increase the already huge file of the Sovereignty API you could add an additional api just for the indizies only (solarSystemID + 3x indizies) otherwise combine them (which will make the api call just bigger). It depends on what works better for you and the cache/api system.

[cyno beacons and fields]
especially cynobeacons cause they're stationary, won't change very couple hours and are watchable ingame anyway, cyno fields can expose to much likely when I would track this activity over time (game design decision?) (hidden fleet movement if combined with the Jumps api).

[pilots in space/docked]
nice to have (as you can see it ingame anyway), but could expose to much maybe intel if tracked over time (game design decision?).

[outpost]
eve/StationDetails: instead of just having a list, this would be for single stations only including the station/outpost description of the owner

[alliance]
eve/AllianceSheet: similar to CorporationSheet, but with more details including the description text (which atm you can only scrape from gate.eveonline.com)

[wars]
oh yes. Not sure which way is the best. List all ongoing wars? (maybe to many?, I've now clue how many wars are always active). Maybe add an endpoint where you can throw IDs of corporation and alliances and get the wars they're involved in. This way I could list "current" and "old" wars on the alliance or corporation representation on my site.

-- dream section --

[sovereingty contested]
First off: I don't want to get the old failed SovereigntyStatus API back, but a "contested" flag for SolarSystems (as soon as somebody onlined (not anchored) a SBU (which takes some hours) the system could receive a contested flag meaning this system is vulnerable and somebody is fighting over it. At that time the owner itself and the coalition partners usually know this already. Downside: this could lead to SBU tourism (it's just a dream).

--

enough for today: i guess when looking at other threads there're lots of good ideas

DOTLAN EveMaps | Your out-of-game map, navigation toolset, sov database, etc. since 2008

raylu D
HELLSINKER
I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
#10 - 2014-03-25 01:52:19 UTC  |  Edited by: raylu D
Quote:
Please also keep in mind that as it stands the EVE API and Public CREST are pet projects and are worked on in spare time. Don't go expecting a mad rush of new changes.


I'd like to discuss this.

Most game developers would be ecstatic to have the level of 3rd party development that EVE (or even DUST) gets. Most developers (myself included) would not be happy to work under this level of support.

How much more important does the API need to be before it stops being a pet project? How many more 3rd party tools need to get written before CCP decides to allocate more time to this? How many more players need to depend on these tools before the API gets the attention it deserves?
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#11 - 2014-03-25 01:53:24 UTC
raylu D wrote:
Quote:
Please also keep in mind that as it stands the EVE API and Public CREST are pet projects and are worked on in spare time. Don't go expecting a mad rush of new changes.


I'd like to discuss this.

Most game developers would be ecstatic to have the level of 3rd party development that EVE (or even DUST) gets. Most developers (myself included) would not be happy to work under this level of support.

How much more important does the API need to be before it stops being a pet project? What needs to happen before CCP decides to allocate more time to this?


There are ongoing discussions about this very topic, I would rather not discuss it any further at this time. Sorry.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

raylu D
HELLSINKER
I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
#12 - 2014-03-25 01:59:14 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
There are ongoing discussions about this very topic, I would rather not discuss it any further at this time. Sorry.


Well, good to hear it's being talked about. Hopefully my vote for a CSM who's a developer will make a difference :D.

In that case, I'd like to discuss caching. The first issue our bright-eyed, green developer runs into is the lack of caching and following error responses (actually, it's the fragmented, outdated, and wrong documentation, but that's boring to fix). To add insult to injury, this behavior is called "caching".

It would help the developer onboarding process greatly if the API servers
1. had more reasonable rate-limits (once an hour is way too low)
2. cached responses so we didn't have to
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#13 - 2014-03-25 02:51:08 UTC
Idea: 'live' market data
Description: To complement the history option, full order information. Ideally with a cache as entirely live data on demand could be very disruptive

Idea: aggregate market data
Description: Hand it multiple ids in a single region, get back the buy and sell prices averaged over the 5% highest buys/lowest sells as well as the total volume of the market. Again with a cache.
Explanation: Averages over the whole market have a tendency to be more easily gameable. The percentile less so.

Idea: Blueprint data
Description: Hand in ML, PL, ME and industry, get back data on production times. (yes, it's in the SDE. would be nice to have another way to get it.)

Idea: The dust map layout
Description: We wants it we do. the pretty map layout.

Idea: Location api updated with nearest celestial
Description: Right now with the location api, we get the x,y,z, within the system. There's no indication of system (that's in the asset api) and to get the nearest celestial, you have to hit mapDenormalize.

Idea: Map data api
Description: Hand it a system id, get back the mapDenormalize entries for that system. hand it a region id, get the constellations and systems. Hand it a celestial id, get the data about that celestial

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Innominate
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2014-03-25 03:13:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Innominate
Idea: Change Locations(and other authenticated endpoints using comma separated lists of ids) to deal gracefully with invalid IDs without erroring out completely.

Some endpoints, Locations comes to mind, take an ids parameter which contains a comma separated list of itemIDs. If a single one of these IDs is invalid for some reason the entire call fails. This is problematic when doing things like looking up items from assets as the assets API can present items that longer exist. This issue makes doing block calls to those endpoints difficult and either require multiple calls to weed out the errors, or to simply make a single request per id being looked up and deal with doing potentially tens of thousands of hits to the API.

Some scraping-vulnerable endpoints like CharacterName should probably continue to exhibit the current behavior, but there seems no reason to have this anti-scraping feature on endpoints which require an api key and access.

Bug: APIKeyInfo occasionally gives error code 221 for no apparent reason on valid keys.
Gossamer DT
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-03-25 03:36:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Gossamer DT
Idea: API to see Jump Bridge links that you can see on the starbase manager today.

Idea: Tower Mod Stats. Big pipe dream I know, but being able to map this would be so awesome!

sorry forgot the stats I wanted, on/off, Shields, Armor, Hull.

who is your main, and what does he do?

Karbowiak
4M-CORP
Mordus Angels
#16 - 2014-03-25 05:25:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Karbowiak
Awesome to see you guys taking the EVE API and CREST more seriously, not that you havn't but, you know Blink

[Public CREST] General system information:
- Basically all the information we can get from the ingame map atm (Pilots in space, jumps into / out etc. etc. etc.) available via a public CREST endpoint would rock.

[Public CREST] Killmails where a kill right was used:
- Simply, show who the kill right was originally from, and who activated it to kill said person. Would give some nice credit to the original guy who got slaughtered, and some glory to the guy activating it, god knows I personally don't bother looking at the kill rights anyone might have, so that someone would be, makes it sorta special Lol

[Private CREST] SSO and Chat:
- I know this wasn't supposed to be put here, since this is for the EVE API and public CREST, but hey, atleast this way noone will forget it :D
Access to SSO and allowance to use Chat API, so you can chat with people ingame, from out of game.. Preeeeeetty sure everyone would love that
Rob Crowley
State War Academy
#17 - 2014-03-25 08:22:38 UTC
Idea: Blueprint details
Description: It's not exactly a new idea but I'd still like to have it: add blueprint details like ML, PL and remaining runs of owned BPs to the API.
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2014-03-25 09:44:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Kolonko
Idea: ship/pos modules names in asset api

Description: right now its pita to get names for ships in sma's, poses and pos modules ang have the info all nameable item already in assets would be great



Idea: personal hangar array content in corp assets

Description: right now things in pha dissapear from corporation without way to ttack them. The information should contain instead of division player id owning item within pha.



Idea: getting more frequent corp assets results

Description: 6 hours just dont cut it. If a corp director want to keep track of assets and want to cross-reference who was online when certain asset is lost he have a 6 hour period to check.



Idea: api that would return assets transations within a container

Description: api would require a container item id and would return last X hours/days worth of assets changes that happened within the container along with who did that transaction and exact timestamp. Another, more precise corp theft api than more frequent assets results. One container limitation to limit ammount of data from single call



Idea: public crest/api - number of jumps between systems

Input: start system, end system, safer|shorter|less secure, optional - system security penalty

result: number of jumps and/or list of systems in path between two systems given the specified autopilot settings

Great for all map appljcations and for all freighter services. Right now have to be written by developers from scratch and you are never 100 percent sure if the game gives the same results.


Idea: dna for a ship in assets

Input: location (system, station, container - to be decided what is best)

List of all ships with type and shipname with dna fitting string in specified location from assets
Allows for better inside into what fits you have in assets or for corp director apps to view player fits on poses and in corp hanvars in stations and check if they follow doctrine or too look for a missing ship that might be put in diffrent sma or station
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-03-25 10:38:45 UTC
Idea: include more precise location for in-space assets in api. Nearedt celestial or naybe even pos id/planet/moon for pos modules and content within those modules

This would save a lot of dewelopment time for pis assets trackers and fuell management
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-03-25 10:46:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Kolonko
Idea: more precise logoff and logon information for corporate members api

Right now you have every two hours information about last login and logof time for each member. This can be gamed by skilled spy thats knows how this works to hid information within this two hours window about being loged in or not (multiple loging in and off within the 2 hour window, using dt as its not shown as logoff)

I would like to propose new api endpoint for corp members logins and logoffs that would show each login and logof as separate row. This compared with my previous proposed asset transactions would allow for precise spy/thef/avoxer detection. While not being able to prevent the action it would allow for investigating more narrow list of suspects.
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