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Best LV4 ship for me

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Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-03-24 21:04:49 UTC
Well yes, when you use only 2 TP for both ships the navy scorp will loose, one does not need to be a rocket scientist to seee that, you did realy copy and paste the fitts...

You simply wasted the potential of the ship but thats not its fault.

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"
Illsukyourroids Roidsareus
Lux Aeternes
#22 - 2014-03-24 21:16:21 UTC
Rattelsnake is my personal favorite .
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2014-03-24 21:19:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Damien White wrote:
Well yes, when you use only 2 TP for both ships the navy scorp will loose, one does not need to be a rocket scientist to seee that, you did realy copy and paste the fitts...

You simply wasted the potential of the ship but thats not its fault.


oh master than show me your masterly fit if i waste it so much. Btw if u would read what ive written i only use one tp on my mission navy raven, but i linked the weaker fit in my opinion as i need a geno to fly my mission fit.

[Raven Navy Issue, geno-mission]

8x Cruise Missile Launcher II (Inferno Fury Cruise Missile)

Large Micro Jump Drive
X-Large Clarity Ward Booster I
Domination Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Domination Thermic Dissipation Amplifier
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Heavy Capacitor Booster II (Cap Booster 800)

Internal Force Field Array I
4x Ballistic Control System II

2x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II

5x Hammerhead II
1x Hammerhead II
5x Hobgoblin II
3x Hobgoblin II

Illsukyourroids Roidsareus wrote:
Rattelsnake is my personal favorite .


i personally have trouble with the rattle delayed missile damage to instant drone damage. But i can see why it can be efficient
Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#24 - 2014-03-24 21:28:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Damien White
I already did explain it to you, dont overtank the ship and throw in another TP, ét viola you basicaly get the same damage as a Navy Raven with one additional Med and a free highslott.

Quote:
[Scorpion Navy Issue, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Large Micro Jump Drive
X-Large Clarity Ward Booster I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
[empty med slot]

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II



Or for your one TP navy Raven setup, use 2 TP on the navy Scorp and you have the same damage projection. As i said, when you use a propper fitting the explo radius and tank bonus result in the same effective DPS due to extra Target Painters. All that is left is one additional Med and High Slott, one could use for drone mods. Something like this works like a charm and can easily out DPS any Navy Raven, simply because it can not support its own drones.

Quote:
[Scorpion Navy Issue, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Large Micro Jump Drive
X-Large Clarity Ward Booster I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Stasis Webifier II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II

Garde II x3



EDIT: and yes, we are talking about >1000 DPS against Battleships and Battlecruisers.

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#25 - 2014-03-24 21:35:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Ick... Try this instead:

6x Cruise Missile Launcher II or 6x Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
Drone Link Augmentor II

100MN Experimental MWD
2x Adaptive Invulnerability II
4x Gistum C-Type passive amps: 1x each of EM, Thermal, Kinetic and Explosive
X-Large Shield Booster II
(the Gistums are $1m-$2m each, except the EM which is $25m)

3-4x Ballistic Control II
1-2x Power Diagnostic II
(with the passive amps you don't really need the damage control, and this gives you more capacitor and shields; but if you want the damage control, this gives you another non-stacking bonus to shields)

3x Large Capacitor Control I (cap stable) -or-
3x Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I (rapids) -or-
2x Large Warhead Rigor I + 1x Large Warhead Flare I
(this is really personal preference more than anything else)

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-03-24 21:37:50 UTC
You are trolling, right?

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#27 - 2014-03-24 21:41:01 UTC
Damien White wrote:
You are trolling, right?

Who are you directing this at?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-03-24 21:42:40 UTC
Well, to the guy proposing a fitting with 2 Invuls and 1 extra Hardener for each damage type combined with an MWD, an X-Large Booster and not a single cap Booster.


So... you.

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#29 - 2014-03-24 21:49:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Damien White wrote:
Well, to the guy proposing a fitting with 2 Invuls and 1 extra Hardener for each damage type combined with an MWD, an X-Large Booster and not a single cap Booster. So... you.

I actually run a medium shield booster (without cap boosters), but I left the x-large in for those that prefer to infrequently pulse it. If you're going to snipe a mission you can run a completely different (and minimal) fit with signal amplifiers, micro jump drive and hydraulic rigs.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2014-03-24 21:51:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Damien White

ok i see where u come from, i should mention that i barely use drones since the ai changes. Lost to many to alpha of the field also patch notes said they changed that to manageable lvls. i would guess dps equals out (slightly better for raven on paper P), still i have to use 2 full salvos to kill a cruiser or bc with the scorp as i can alpha it with the raven makes 8 missiles on raven and 12 on the scorp. Scorp has more e-war capabilities. Your fittings i personally dont like (active resist mod). I would say that both are viable ships, the decision which to use for missions comes down to what the player prefers to use.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#31 - 2014-03-24 21:54:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:
ok i see where u come from, i should mention that i barely use drones since the ai changes. Lost to many to alpha of the field also patch notes said they changed that to manageable lvls. i would guess dps equals out (slightly better for raven on paper P), still i have to use 2 full salvos to kill a cruiser or bc with the scorp as i can alpha it with the raven makes 8 missiles on raven and 12 on the scorp. Scorp has more e-war capabilities. Your fittings i personally dont like (active resist mod). I would say that both are viable ships, the decision which to use for missions comes down to what the player prefers to use.

The Navy Raven has better damage application and range, but you need to boost your targeting; the Navy Scorpion has better tank. On paper, damage looks the same - but you get marginally more with the Navy Raven (2 extra launchers work out to more damage than a +25% rate of fire), and you'll use a bit less ammunition.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-03-24 21:56:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Damien White
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Damien White wrote:
Well, to the guy proposing a fitting with 2 Invuls and 1 extra Hardener for each damage type combined with an MWD, an X-Large Booster and not a single cap Booster. So... you.

I actually run a medium shield booster (without cap boosters), but I left the x-large in for those that prefer to infrequently pulse it. If you're going to snipe a mission you can run a completely different (and minimal) fit with signal amplifiers, micro jump drive and hydraulic rigs.


Dude, you fittet 7 tanking modules, 10 if you include cap recharge.

Overkill is an understatement for this, as is the uniform damage tank of only 863, even BC can get better tank with using 7-10 slotts.

EDIT: The Range Bonus of the Navy Raven, as well as the speed and explo radius only work for torpedos. Even without any range bonus whatsoever the Navy Scorp has a range of over 140km with standard cruise missiles. You can hit every single NPC, even those from worlds collide.

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#33 - 2014-03-24 22:03:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Double post.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#34 - 2014-03-24 22:05:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Damien White wrote:
Dude, you fittet 7 tanking modules, 10 if you include cap recharge.

Your point?

Damien White wrote:
EDIT: The Range Bonus of the Navy Raven, as well as the speed and explo radius only work for torpedos. Even without any range bonus whatsoever the Navy Scorp has a range of over 140km with standard cruise missiles. You can hit every single NPC, even those from worlds collide.

In order to take advantage of the range bonus of the Navy Raven you need to either boost sensor range or run a target painter to get aggro for FoF cruise missiles. The Navy Scorpion has just shy of 20km more range built-in. And the explosion radius bonus extends to cruise missiles also.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2014-03-24 22:15:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Arthur Aihaken wrote:

The Navy Raven has better damage application and range, but you need to boost your targeting; the Navy Scorpion has better tank. On paper, damage looks the same - but you get marginally more with the Navy Raven (2 extra launchers work out to more damage than a +25% rate of fire), and you'll use a bit less ammunition.


Thats pretty much which damien white and me discuss. why raven navy over scorpion navy or the other way around. Basically the scorpion equals out on the raven thx to more available mids. Raven basically applies damage better but scorpion has mids to fit tp's which will equal it out. Paper dps is for all that matters the same (raven +10 without drones). I prefer the Raven he does the scorpion. My guess would be that we would clear out the missions on equal times. I have problems with his thinking the raven is a torp boat. i give him that its the bs best suited for torps it is but its also a perfectly reasonable mission runner especially thx to a higher alpha and better or atleast equal application of missile damage.

EDIT: The Velocity Bonus to missiles gives u more range, but more importantly faster damage to target. Range Boost is only needed because of mjd
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#36 - 2014-03-24 22:19:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:
Thats pretty much which damien white and me discuss. why raven navy over scorpion navy or the other way around. Basically the scorpion equals out on the raven thx to more available mids. Raven basically applies damage better but scorpion has mids to fit tp's which will equal it out. Paper dps is for all that matters the same (raven +10 without drones). I prefer the Raven he does the scorpion. My guess would be that we would clear out the missions on equal times. I have problems with his thinking the raven is a torp boat. i give him that its the bs best suited for torps it is but its also a perfectly reasonable mission runner especially thx to a higher alpha and better or atleast equal application of missile damage.

Since the cruise missile update, torpedoes are really a third rate weapon - especially since you need webs, rigors and/or target painters to get 100% damage application against just NPC battleships. Even rapid heavy launchers are a better alternative than torpedoes. I like the Scorpion purely for the tank. You can get it to over 300k EHP quite easily (well over 400k with fleet boosting).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2014-03-24 22:29:51 UTC
Damien White wrote:


EDIT: The Range Bonus of the Navy Raven, as well as the speed and explo radius only work for torpedos. Even without any range bonus whatsoever the Navy Scorp has a range of over 140km with standard cruise missiles. You can hit every single NPC, even those from worlds collide.


Read the description it works on cruise missiles and torpedos i believe ccp frozie or rise said on the neo II that it also applies for RHML not sure on that so. The biggest problem with paper stats between our both fittings and eve life might be that i use less salvos which would make me faster compared to u but i dont have a scorpion navy anymore so cant test it anymore. Your garde fit might balance that out again or even give it the edge. But like i said before they are pretty close in performance for missions.
Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#38 - 2014-03-25 19:33:42 UTC
The range bonus works on Cruise Missiles but there is no need for >200km range.

Torpedos on the other hand need every lillte extra kilometer they can get.


Same for the speed, Cruise Missiles with their range dont count on speed, torpedos need the speed so you can close in on your enemys to actually kill them.

The Navy Raven is the torpedo brawler, the Scorpion the Cruise Missile sniper.

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
#39 - 2014-03-25 20:30:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ion Kirst
What's weird is that the Raven, the Navy Scorp, the CNR, and Golem all put out the same dps, if all are fitted the same. (CCP, that just doesn't seem right for you to have done that.)


I use Tech II cruise launchers, furys, and 4 Caldari BCUs, with my skills (and implants) I get 984 dps. Yes, some other guys do get even more.

However, for me, the Raven and the Navy Scorp both give out 6060 volley damage. The CNR and the Golem have 8080 volley.

2000 in damage/volley is significant.

-Kirst


Edit: when I said "if all are fitted the same", I think I should explain - For the Raven and Navy Scorp - 6 T2 Launchers, Fury, and 4 Caldari BCUs. For the CNR, 8 T2 Launchers, Fury, and 4 Caldari BCUs, and for the Golem, 4 T2 Launchers, Fury, and 4 Caldari BCUs.

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2014-03-25 23:00:00 UTC
Damien White wrote:
The range bonus works on Cruise Missiles but there is no need for >200km range.

Torpedos on the other hand need every lillte extra kilometer they can get.


Same for the speed, Cruise Missiles with their range dont count on speed, torpedos need the speed so you can close in on your enemys to actually kill them.

The Navy Raven is the torpedo brawler, the Scorpion the Cruise Missile sniper.


actually yes and no, i give u that that the velocity bonus is more important for torps but cruise do profit from it too. Btw i get only 166km at cald bs 5. But back to the velocity bonus i like that my missiles hit alot sooner.

But we got really of the ops post so i will shut up after this
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