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Deimos vs Ishtar

Author
O2 jayjay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-03-24 03:16:06 UTC  |  Edited by: O2 jayjay
Greeting pilots,

First I'll like to start out by saying this isn't a biotch cry post. I'm just pointing out a few facts and suggesting a change. I would like to start out with the Deimos. What is a Deimos good for? What are it's roles? Shield or armor tank? Rails or blasters? What about an Ishtar? After asking myself these questions, I can't find a reason for anyone to fly a Deimos. It's a good brawling ship but come across a neuting vexor, VNI, or Ishtar with neuts (or any med neuting ship) and your done for. But what if you rail fit it? Rail Deimos are amazing, problem is you need to keep your distance and must be shield tanked. A vexor navy issue and Ishtar will make short work of your Deimos due to the mad buff sentries received during the past updates. Since I am against nerfing, I am proposing a buff to the Deimos. An Ishtar and it's sister don't need ammo for drones, don't need cap for drones, can fit a crazy tank since drones Don't take CPU and pwg, can switch damage types, can apply DPS while neuted, and the ship can brawl/snipe at the same damn time. I would like the Deimos to hit harder and have more cap with a faster cap recharge(15% on both cap buffs). Let's up the hybrid damage to 7.5% per gallente cruiser lvl and 7.5% per heavy assault cruiser lvl. 10% more hp per rep every HAC level or keep the 7.5% but add 7.5% more cap per cap charge per HAC lvl. That way the ship can truly shine and be on par with the Ishtar. Make it to where you don't want this ship to catch you in brawling range. As it sits right now you're better off in a VNI or Ishtar than a Die Most.

Also plz fix reactive armor. It should adjust to bleed damage and it should adjust as the damage is coming in and not every cycle. Finally it you get 12 em, 10thermal and 1000kentic bleed damage. It should shift everything to the most bleed damage. If your getting 300em and 300exp bleed should be 50/50 split. 300em 100ex and 600 exp should be 30/10/60 of the total 60% resistance increase. Every attack should instantly change your resistance.

Please leave feed back.
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#2 - 2014-03-24 03:43:34 UTC
Any decently fit Deimos should mop the floor with or disengage from Vexors or Navy Vexors.
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#3 - 2014-03-24 04:01:33 UTC
O2 jayjay wrote:
Shield or armor tank?
Troll post is meh. 2/10
O2 jayjay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-03-24 04:47:02 UTC  |  Edited by: O2 jayjay
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Any decently fit Deimos should mop the floor with or disengage from Vexors or Navy Vexors.


Not true. You 4 medium neuts are on you with web and scram your done for. Good luck tanking his berserkers
O2 jayjay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-03-24 04:48:47 UTC
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
O2 jayjay wrote:
Shield or armor tank?
Troll post is meh. 2/10


You must not have flown a 250rail Deimos. Your missing out on a vagabond/cynabul killer. Sucks for you sir
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#6 - 2014-03-24 09:16:15 UTC
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Any decently fit Deimos should mop the floor with or disengage from Vexors or Navy Vexors.


This is also my experience.

OP, no ship can deal with every threat. No matter what you fly and how you fit it your going to meet something that can counter you sooner or later.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law

O2 jayjay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-03-24 11:02:00 UTC
Samillian wrote:
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Any decently fit Deimos should mop the floor with or disengage from Vexors or Navy Vexors.


This is also my experience.

OP, no ship can deal with every threat. No matter what you fly and how you fit it your going to meet something that can counter you sooner or later.


no matter how you fit the deimos it will never be able to brawl against a neuting vexor. the drone damage will tear it to peices and the neut will stop all reps. also you cannot rep or shoot or tank when he neuts you out. you can fit rails but it will still out dps and out track you with sentries. the Deimos need to be buffed. feel free to post a fit that you think can take on a neuting VNI or ishtar.
TAckermassacker
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-03-24 11:10:51 UTC
the Deimos really needs a doomsday device.
O2 jayjay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-03-24 11:14:33 UTC
TAckermassacker wrote:
the Deimos really needs a doomsday device.


You must be a drone guy. fact is fact and the Deimos is pointless as a brawler to the ishtar and VNI.
TehCloud
Guardians of the Dodixie
#10 - 2014-03-24 12:03:03 UTC
Active Tanked ships have problems against neuts? Wow that never occured to me.
Thanks OP for creating such a useful thread.

My Condor costs less than that module!

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-03-24 12:19:49 UTC
O2 jayjay wrote:
TAckermassacker wrote:
the Deimos really needs a doomsday device.


You must be a drone guy. fact is fact and the Deimos is pointless as a brawler to the ishtar and VNI.


Then shouldn't you simply not engage VNI or ishtar with a deimos and use a ship that can counter them if you expect to face them?
O2 jayjay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-03-24 12:37:43 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
O2 jayjay wrote:
TAckermassacker wrote:
the Deimos really needs a doomsday device.


You must be a drone guy. fact is fact and the Deimos is pointless as a brawler to the ishtar and VNI.


Then shouldn't you simply not engage VNI or ishtar with a deimos and use a ship that can counter them if you expect to face them?


meh im done
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#13 - 2014-03-24 13:10:51 UTC
For one, they are completely different. Ishtar deploys guns and then needs to stay within its drones' range. Deimos got mounted guns that move along. That along makes for quite some differences, as a deimos in perma-mwd-orbit [25-28km] still suffers tracking issues, the ishtar does not. However, many skirmishing fights involve warping off, warping back, warping up to a perch or down to a wreck. It's those situations where the Deimos is simply favorable - in near any sustained engagement.

They both fly completely different, not only cause slots. An Ishtar is usually shieldtanked, or rarely AAR+plate with webscram and lastly the dualbuffered fleetvariation (double LSE, 1600plate with spare PG). It usually uses sentries, thus is near always a longrange-dps-boat.
The Deimos though got quite a plethora of fits, active shieldtanked with blasters and doublenano, raildeimos either with shieldbuffer, AAR-honourtank or actually plated (though I dislike that one personally), brawldeimos with either badassplate or dualrep - you name it. There are a lot of things only one of the two ships can accomplish, given you pay attention to the deimos vastly superior capacitor and armorrep-bonus.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#14 - 2014-03-24 14:44:33 UTC
O2 jayjay wrote:
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Any decently fit Deimos should mop the floor with or disengage from Vexors or Navy Vexors.


Not true. You 4 medium neuts are on you with web and scram your done for. Good luck tanking his berserkers

So... Let's see. He's got 4 medium neuts, so he's gotta be cap injected. So web/scram/booster/prop. Alright. He's running one booster, so he's not active tanking (at least not if he's trying to run 4 medium neuts). So you don't need to worry about burning him down right instantly, you have a some time to kill him as long as you can stay alive. Now you, as you are active tanking, should be cap injected as well. So inject, fire guns and rep. If you can survive long enough against him just by repping on cap injection, you'll kill him because he's buffered. Buffer also sounds pretty weak if he's running 4 medium neuts.


Also, the Deimos is pretty easily one of the top HACs. Personally I'd say it's the second best, second only to the Ishtar. If you actually intend to buff the Deimos, what does that mean for all the other HACs? Are they going to just get all their stats ******* doubled so they can stay competitive? Imagine how much even just a Deimos buff would mess up the meta game.
Gawain Edmond
Khanid Bureau of Industry
#15 - 2014-03-24 15:33:29 UTC
oh no a ship that has a counter it must be broken and buffed? :S

By the same argument i'm suggesting that the curse needs a buff because sheild tanked missile boats are a HUGE problem for a curse and there for the curse is broken and needs buffing I suggest that it be improved in the following balanced ways 1) the curse be made into an i-win button where you undock and all things instantly explode 2) it be immune to everything 3) dancing girls appear around your ship and proclaim your godlyness to the rest of the system and lastly 4) you become immune to concord

Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#16 - 2014-03-24 16:21:26 UTC
O2 jayjay wrote:
It's a good brawling ship but come across a neuting vexor, VNI, or Ishtar with neuts (or any med neuting ship) and your done for.


Then you must be flying a Deimos without a cap booster, meaning you are terrible and deserve to explode.

Quote:
But what if you rail fit it? Rail Deimos are amazing, problem is you need to keep your distance and must be shield tanked.

Or you can be armor tanked w/ rails and be awesome.

Quote:
I would like the Deimos to hit harder and have more cap with a faster cap recharge(15% on both cap buffs)

Like all other HACs, the deimos got huge buffs to its cap along with the rebalance. The deimos also does plenty of damage.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Maxemus Payne
THE BOARD OF EDUCATION
#17 - 2014-03-24 18:20:46 UTC
Try using a cap booster. They really do work.
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#18 - 2014-03-25 01:10:24 UTC
Okay, you're not a troll; that worries me deeply.
I'm a drone guy; I fly an ishtar constantly, nothing can fit PvA the way an ishtar can. When I do something for pure PvP I switch to the deimos. I enjoy actually hitting targets without a tackle handling it for me.
O2 jayjay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2014-03-25 02:30:15 UTC  |  Edited by: O2 jayjay
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
Okay, you're not a troll; that worries me deeply.
I'm a drone guy; I fly an ishtar constantly, nothing can fit PvA the way an ishtar can. When I do something for pure PvP I switch to the deimos. I enjoy actually hitting targets without a tackle handling it for me.


You're an idiot
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#20 - 2014-03-25 02:43:26 UTC
Rail Deimos doesn't need to be shield tanked, and honestly is worse than the armor tanked rail variant.

Try this armor rail fit out:

Deimos - MAAR

Damage Controll II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Federation Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Shadow Serpentis Armor Explosive Hardener
Medium Ancilliary Armor Repairer

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
True Sansha Warp Disruptor
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Medium Capacitor Booster II

250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Hybri Locus Coordinator II

Warrior II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

Fly it in a small gang with dedicated anti-support to deal with fast tackle and you'll be golden.

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone

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